2018 212X Audio System Brand/Setup--Change from 2017?

[JDRacing]

So, I picked up the above boat about two weeks ago, and I've spent some time on this subforum trying to understand the audio system. After reading other threads on the 2017 system, I think that things changed in 2018, at least as far as components.

The 2017's apparently use the Polk Marine 5000.5 and all Polk speakers, based on an excellent thread started by Dave Burke here: https://jetboaters.net/threads/looking-for-advice-on-a-2017-212x-stereo-upgrade.15588/ I thought I understood how everything was set up and started thinking about some upgrades that others have reported as having large bang for the buck.

But comparing that thread to what's on my 2018 212X, other than the Polk Audio PA4 head unit and remote, my system is all Wet Sounds, including the Stealth 10 non-amplified soundbar, and all cabin/bow/swim deck speakers and Sub--they all have the Wet Sounds logo on the grill. These are the cabin/bow speakers: https://www.wetsounds.com/XS-65ic-S The swim deck speakers are similar, but an inch smaller. Pretty sure this is the sub, and the grill matches the rest of the speakers: https://www.wetsounds.com/SS-10B-S4

It also has this amp, I believe: https://www.wetsounds.com/HTX-6 At least is sure looks like that amp, and I don't think it can be the 4 channel (HTX-4) because there would be nothing to run the sub.

Since there's 6 channels and only a need for 5 of them (like the PA 5000.5), I'm assuming two of them are bridged for the sub. But since I haven't tried to pull anything apart to figure all that out, I don't know for sure. Input to the amp is from the speaker outputs of the HU, rather than the line outputs, which I guess is how it's been done in the past by Yamaha.

Anyone know if the speaker setup is wired the same way as Dave Burke noted for the Polk system in his first entry in the above thread? I will say that, however it is wired, it makes for some weird effects with the fader and balance controls on the Connext. On the sound bar, left and right balance are backwards, although the other six speakers balance properly. And fade is similarly not consistent with moving the sound front to rear--which is the result of some speakers being in series and some in parallel in order to cram as many speakers into 4 channels as possible.

Overall, it sounds pretty good, but as @jcyamaharider noted, splitting stuff up with one more 4 channel amp and giving each speaker its own dedicated amp output has to improve things. Before going that direction, I wanted to see if anyone has waded into the 2018 system yet.

Jeff

 

[Julian]

Getting that sound bar out of a series set up will make a big difference. I posted a wiring diagram on how to do that, in one of the 242X stereo threads....ping me if you need it and can't find it. (linked in my 242x thread in my signature-#15)

 

[JDRacing]

Thanks very much, Julian. I think I found it here: https://jetboaters.net/threads/2016-242x-stereo.14132/page-2#post-263014 (at post 25). Anyway, I get the idea, and now need to figure out if the 2018 is wired the same way. Also need to figure out where I can mount another 4 channel HTX-4 amp near the existing HTX-6. And then try to give each speaker it's own dedicated amp channel and eliminate all the series wiring.

Jeff

 

[Julian]

Thanks very much, Julian. I think I found it here: https://jetboaters.net/threads/2016-242x-stereo.14132/page-2#post-263014 (at post 25). Anyway, I get the idea, and now need to figure out if the 2018 is wired the same way. Also need to figure out where I can mount another 4 channel HTX-4 amp near the existing HTX-6. And then try to give each speaker it's own dedicated amp channel and eliminate all the series wiring.

Jeff

Unfortuneately the HTX-6 doesn't apprear to have pre-amp outputs or it would be really easy to add another amp. I'd consider buying an amp that does, and swap it into the position of the current amp, then use the new amps pre-amp outputs to easily connect the new amp. Also consider how many speakers you might have in the future, and consider getting a 6 channel vs a 4 channel....much easier to do that now than later.

 

[JDRacing]

Good point on a 6 channel for future options.

I'm starting to think that the 242 and 212 audio systems are set up differently. Besides the obvious additional amp in the 242, all of my 212 channel inputs to the amp are speaker level, not line level. The line level outputs at the HU in the helm console are unused. From what I've been reading about 242 systems, they use line level inputs to the amps.

So I'm not certain that an amp with line level outputs is going to help me that much unless I want to convert the whole input signal to line level/RCA for the second amp straight from the HU. Perhaps that may be the best way to go about this.

Otherwise, I'm likely going to be cutting and tapping speaker level input wires near the existing amp if I want to add another amp to carry some of the speakers.

Will investigate this more, though.

 

[JDRacing]

So, I spent most of the day trying to map the input/output of the Wet Sounds 6 CH amp in my 2018 212X. Also spent a considerable amount of time on the phone with Wet Sounds Tech Support, and they were great. The amp that comes on this boat is an OEM version of the HTX-6 (called the "DSP"), with none of the line level inputs or user-accessible tuning features of the consumer HTX-6. It uses Yamaha proprietary input plugs and output plugs, with speaker level inputs only. Apparently all of the tuning features are flashed into amp. And there is a port on the amp that seems to be for that purpose. Wet Sounds had some good advice as to how to integrate an HTX-6 into the system to separate out the series speakers.

After spending all that time trying to figure out what I had (I've got 12 pages of notes trying to get this point), there are a few problems with the system as it arrived from the factory, the most significant of which I stumbled across today and will describe. But first, here's how (at least) my particular boat is wired. I'm going to use "left and right" instead of "port and starboard", because that's how the system is labeled:

1. The Left Cabin and Left Bow speakers are in series on one output channel, and the Right Cabin and Right Bow speakers are on another. Both are set up on the REAR channels of the HU. Left rear is channel 1 on input, and the right rear is channel 2 on input, and they map to channels 1 & 2 on the output side. Move the fader to the rear, and the cabin and bow speakers (and subwoofer) are the only things playing. There's an anomaly on the cabin/bow wiring which I discovered but I'm not going to spend time on that in this post, because it works.
2. The subwoofer comes off a bridged set of two channels (Channels 5 & 6 on the output of the amp). It gets its input from the Rear channels of the HU described in item 1 above. I can tell this because when I move the fader to the rear, the sub is playing normally at a level appropriate to the level of the cabin/bow speakers. When I move the fader to the front, no cabin/bow speakers (of course), and no sub either. Just the sound bar and the swim deck speakers are playing.
3. The sound bar and swim deck speakers are supposed to be wired in series, I believe, using the front left and right input channels from the HU. It should work such that putting the balance to the left and the fader all the way to the front should play the left side of the sound bar and the left swim deck speaker (wired in series), and should be channel 3 on the input and channel 3 on the output. And putting balance to the right should play the right side of the soundbar and right swim deck speaker (wired in series), and should be on channel 4 on the input and channel 4 on the output.

That covers all 4 input channels (input channels 5 & 6 are unused on the amp) and all 6 output channels (again, the sub uses a low pass crossover filter from input channels 1 & 2 to get its signal, which is sent to output channels 5 & 6).

But, at least on the front L/R channels (again, powering sound bar and swim deck speakers), that's not the way mine was from the factory. I've found two problems with the sound bar/swim deck setup:

1. The front input channels are reversed (or the output channels are reversed), meaning that balancing to the left plays the right side of the sound bar, and balancing to the right plays the left side of the sound bar. In other words, the front left input channel (input channel 3) is mapped to the right speakers (right side of the sound bar) on output channel 3 and vice versa. But that's not the most serious issue.
2. Apparently the factory managed to hook up the left side of the sound bar to its own output channel, and then proceeded to wire the right side of the sound bar in series with BOTH swim deck speakers. I figured this out when I put the balance all the way right (which should play the left side of the sound bar because it's wired backwards) and then realized that I had no swim deck speakers at all. Moving the balance all the way left plays the right side of the sound bar and both swim deck speakers. If the fader is all the way forward, those are the only speakers playing. I noticed something was funny before I started playing around with the balance, because the right side of the sound bar wasn't nearly as strong as the left side. And now I know why: the right side is seeing at least 3X the load of the left side.

Anyway, my conclusion at the end of the day, including some other wiring anomalies I haven't mentioned here, are (1) I've got very nice Wet Sound components (speakers, sub and amp), but (2) the wiring job is a hot mess.

I'm now thinking that I'm looking at running all new speaker wiring (except for the leads into the tower, which I'll tap into at the base), give each speaker its own channel of amplification and use the gain controls on the new HTX-6 I'm probably going to be buying in order to match the output of the non-adjustable 6 channel Wet Sounds "DSP" OEM amp.

The one thing I know for sure is that it sure isn't right the way it was delivered to me.

Jeff

 

[Okrhino]

So, I picked up the above boat about two weeks ago, and I've spent some time on this subforum trying to understand the audio system. After reading other threads on the 2017 system, I think that things changed in 2018, at least as far as components.

The 2017's apparently use the Polk Marine 5000.5 and all Polk speakers, based on an excellent thread started by Dave Burke here: https://jetboaters.net/threads/looking-for-advice-on-a-2017-212x-stereo-upgrade.15588/ I thought I understood how everything was set up and started thinking about some upgrades that others have reported as having large bang for the buck.

But comparing that thread to what's on my 2018 212X, other than the Polk Audio PA4 head unit and remote, my system is all Wet Sounds, including the Stealth 10 non-amplified soundbar, and all cabin/bow/swim deck speakers and Sub--they all have the Wet Sounds logo on the grill. These are the cabin/bow speakers: https://www.wetsounds.com/XS-65ic-S The swim deck speakers are similar, but an inch smaller. Pretty sure this is the sub, and the grill matches the rest of the speakers: https://www.wetsounds.com/SS-10B-S4

It also has this amp, I believe: https://www.wetsounds.com/HTX-6 At least is sure looks like that amp, and I don't think it can be the 4 channel (HTX-4) because there would be nothing to run the sub.

Since there's 6 channels and only a need for 5 of them (like the PA 5000.5), I'm assuming two of them are bridged for the sub. But since I haven't tried to pull anything apart to figure all that out, I don't know for sure. Input to the amp is from the speaker outputs of the HU, rather than the line outputs, which I guess is how it's been done in the past by Yamaha.

Anyone know if the speaker setup is wired the same way as Dave Burke noted for the Polk system in his first entry in the above thread? I will say that, however it is wired, it makes for some weird effects with the fader and balance controls on the Connext. On the sound bar, left and right balance are backwards, although the other six speakers balance properly. And fade is similarly not consistent with moving the sound front to rear--which is the result of some speakers being in series and some in parallel in order to cram as many speakers into 4 channels as possible.

Overall, it sounds pretty good, but as @jcyamaharider noted, splitting stuff up with one more 4 channel amp and giving each speaker its own dedicated amp output has to improve things. Before going that direction, I wanted to see if anyone has waded into the 2018 system yet.

Jeff

Can you take a picture of how that amp is installed hooked up the the hu.

 

[JDRacing]

So the first picture is of the back of the HU in the helm console. In the foreground are the four RCA connectors (Right/Left each for the front and rear outputs) and to the left of them is the block with the speaker level output wires (8 of them, plus the blue control wire) going to the amp, which is located in the battery compartment in the port cabin storage.




The second picture is of the Wet Sounds DSP HTX-6 Amp. The connectors (proprietary to Yamaha according to Wet Sounds Tech Support) from left to right are (1) red and black power cables; (2) input wires from the HU; (3) channels 1-4 of the output going to the speakers and (4) channels 5-6 of the output, which are bridged, going to the subwoofer (the yellow wires).



Jeff

 

[Okrhino]

Great pics. Thanks a bunch. Very helpful

 

[KHoward]

So, I picked up the above boat about two weeks ago, and I've spent some time on this subforum trying to understand the audio system. After reading other threads on the 2017 system, I think that things changed in 2018, at least as far as components.

The 2017's apparently use the Polk Marine 5000.5 and all Polk speakers, based on an excellent thread started by Dave Burke here: https://jetboaters.net/threads/looking-for-advice-on-a-2017-212x-stereo-upgrade.15588/ I thought I understood how everything was set up and started thinking about some upgrades that others have reported as having large bang for the buck.

But comparing that thread to what's on my 2018 212X, other than the Polk Audio PA4 head unit and remote, my system is all Wet Sounds, including the Stealth 10 non-amplified soundbar, and all cabin/bow/swim deck speakers and Sub--they all have the Wet Sounds logo on the grill. These are the cabin/bow speakers: Wetsounds The swim deck speakers are similar, but an inch smaller. Pretty sure this is the sub, and the grill matches the rest of the speakers: Wetsounds

It also has this amp, I believe: Wetsounds At least is sure looks like that amp, and I don't think it can be the 4 channel (HTX-4) because there would be nothing to run the sub.

Since there's 6 channels and only a need for 5 of them (like the PA 5000.5), I'm assuming two of them are bridged for the sub. But since I haven't tried to pull anything apart to figure all that out, I don't know for sure. Input to the amp is from the speaker outputs of the HU, rather than the line outputs, which I guess is how it's been done in the past by Yamaha.

Anyone know if the speaker setup is wired the same way as Dave Burke noted for the Polk system in his first entry in the above thread? I will say that, however it is wired, it makes for some weird effects with the fader and balance controls on the Connext. On the sound bar, left and right balance are backwards, although the other six speakers balance properly. And fade is similarly not consistent with moving the sound front to rear--which is the result of some speakers being in series and some in parallel in order to cram as many speakers into 4 channels as possible.

Overall, it sounds pretty good, but as @jcyamaharider noted, splitting stuff up with one more 4 channel amp and giving each speaker its own dedicated amp output has to improve things. Before going that direction, I wanted to see if anyone has waded into the 2018 system yet.

Jeff

Hello,

I'm new to the forum and found this somewhat old thread. I have a 2019 242 SE and the stereo is pretty much identical to yours (same amp, speakers, sub, and stern control). I'm unsure of the head unit because it just has the Connext display, but there is a Fusion controller on the stern. I was out yesterday cleaning up for a trip next week and I noticed the bass seemed lacking. I checked and the sub woofer is doing nothing. All amp connections look good and the other speakers work perfectly. I'm pretty sure the sub has never worked as I always thought the bass was lacking. I just never paid much attention to it until now.

While I can make an appointment to take it to Bert's under warranty I'd hate to think it's just something simple I can take care of myself. I pulled a cup holder above the sub, reached in, and felt for the wiring, which seems to be connected. The sub is retained by screws and self-locking nuts (genius from an access perspective). There's eight screws/nuts and access is pretty crappy so I cannot be 100% certain it's correctly connected until I suck it up and pull it out. Would you have any ideas? I believe the amp can flash error codes from the logo light. It's solid blue indicating normal function.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,

Ken

 

[Troch1]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum and found this somewhat old thread. I have a 2019 242 SE and the stereo is pretty much identical to yours (same amp, speakers, sub, and stern control). I'm unsure of the head unit because it just has the Connext display, but there is a Fusion controller on the stern. I was out yesterday cleaning up for a trip next week and I noticed the bass seemed lacking. I checked and the sub woofer is doing nothing. All amp connections look good and the other speakers work perfectly. I'm pretty sure the sub has never worked as I always thought the bass was lacking. I just never paid much attention to it until now.

While I can make an appointment to take it to Bert's under warranty I'd hate to think it's just something simple I can take care of myself. I pulled a cup holder above the sub, reached in, and felt for the wiring, which seems to be connected. The sub is retained by screws and self-locking nuts (genius from an access perspective). There's eight screws/nuts and access is pretty crappy so I cannot be 100% certain it's correctly connected until I suck it up and pull it out. Would you have any ideas? I believe the amp can flash error codes from the logo light. It's solid blue indicating normal function.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,

Ken

Download the Fusion app to your phone. Pair your head unit (Fusion unit on the stern). Go to zone 1 in the app, adjust sub crossover frequency to 80 or 120, increase sub level to 24. Marked improvement but still not “awesome “ d/t proprietary settings that Yamaha flashed to the amps that are ultra conservative.

 

[KHoward]

Download the Fusion app to your phone. Pair your head unit (Fusion unit on the stern). Go to zone 1 in the app, adjust sub crossover frequency to 80 or 120, increase sub level to 24. Marked improvement but still not “awesome “ d/t proprietary settings that Yamaha flashed to the amps that are ultra conservative.

Dude! You're awesome... I will give that a try this afternoon. Yes, they are so conservative the sub woofer is virtually dead.

 

[JDRacing]

The Fusion head unit is so much more versatile than the PA4A. Hope this works.for you. Suggest you go to audiocheck.net and try some of their test files. You can check sub output, right and left channels to make sure they are wired correctly from the factory (mine were not), and phased correctly (again, mine were not), among other things. You can play the test files right through Blue Tooth into your Fusion head unit. Good luck!

Jeff

 

[KHoward]

The Fusion head unit is so much more versatile than the PA4A. Hope this works.for you. Suggest you go to audiocheck.net and try some of their test files. You can check sub output, right and left channels to make sure they are wired correctly from the factory (mine were not), and phased correctly (again, mine were not), among other things. You can play the test files right through Blue Tooth into your Fusion head unit. Good luck!

Jeff

I will try this too. I'll try it as soon as I get home.

Thank you so much,

Ken

Download the Fusion app to your phone. Pair your head unit (Fusion unit on the stern). Go to zone 1 in the app, adjust sub crossover frequency to 80 or 120, increase sub level to 24. Marked improvement but still not “awesome “ d/t proprietary settings that Yamaha flashed to the amps that are ultra conservative.

Thank you again... yes, setting to 24 with crossover at 120 Hz definitely improved the bass. You are right, it's not awesome. Yamaha must have set the amp's gain so low it's barely on. With 300 watts feeding that sub-woofer, there should be substantial bass. The cone barely moves set to 24, though it went from no bass at all to some bass. I wonder if they did that to keep the amp from thermal protecting. I'm guessing on a typical day on the lake that the compartment the amp's housed in probably gets to 150 degrees. I felt the amp before and I think you can cook an egg on it at moderate volumes on a 110 degree day.


Using Jeff's suggestion it did some audio tests and the 6.5" speakers are wired correctly. The out of phase sounds super weird, so that's good. I have to admit that I'm not sure on the sub-woofer. The out of phase might have sounded better, indicating reversed wires. After my trip I will ohm out the wires to check for sure. I'm going to break out my SPL meter (haven't used it in years) and check levels from each speaker with test tones (maybe 100 Hz). If the sub-woofer's bass is significantly lower then I'll see what I can get Yamaha to say about it.

Thanks,

Ken

 

[JDRacing]

Glad you are making progress. As much as I love the Wet Sounds hardware, I really don't know what Yamaha was thinking in terms of setting.our systems up. I ended up replacing the DSP HTX-6 amp with the tunable/standard version. I can tell you that it does not come close to overheating or tripping thermal protection running the sub at 300 Watts on bridged channels 5/6. It rattles everything on that side of the boat with the gain set at 1/2 way and volume up at 75-80%. While I like bass, I'm kind of an old school, driving bass kind of guy, rather than a pounding/thumping bass, like many of the newer mixes feature.

The DSP concept is understandable and makes a lot of sense if (1) they get it right from the factory and (2) you never want to upgrade your stock system. I think Yamaha "missed the boat" on No. (1), and as far as No. (2), they misunderestimated (to use a former Presdent's invented word) its customer base.

But hey, that's pretty minor stuff in the grand scheme of a new boat. The good news is that Yamaha seems to have nailed most of the basic boat concepts. For example, it floats pretty well.

Jeff

 

[KHoward]

Glad you are making progress. As much as I love the Wet Sounds hardware, I really don't know what Yamaha was thinking in terms of setting.our systems up. I ended up replacing the DSP HTX-6 amp with the tunable/standard version. I can tell you that it does not come close to overheating or tripping thermal protection running the sub at 300 Watts on bridged channels 5/6. It rattles everything on that side of the boat with the gain set at 1/2 way and volume up at 75-80%. While I like bass, I'm kind of an old school, driving bass kind of guy, rather than a pounding/thumping bass, like many of the newer mixes feature.

The DSP concept is understable and makes a lot of sense if (1) they get it right from the factory and (2) you never want to upgrade your stock system. I think Yamaha "missed the boat" on No. (1), and as far as No. (2), they misunderestimated (to use a former Presdent's invented word) its customer base.

But hey, that's pretty minor stuff in the grand scheme of a new boat. The good news is that Yamaha seems to have nailed most of the basic boat concepts. For example, it floats pretty well.

Jeff

"It floats pretty well".... LMAO????