Adding a second battery and charging relay on my 2021 AR190

[spatty99]

The battery installation requirements (movement, protection, etc.) are mirrored in ABYC standards, E-10.7 specifically. A Yamaha dealer installation should definitely be in accordance with ABYC standards.

 

[haknslash]

I remember my 2016 AR192’s single battery from POI was located just below the fuel EVAP canister and beneath the fuel fill hose and fittings. I remember seeing others done the same way. Per CFR 183.420 tat would be in violation of the regulation, specifically the statement “Each battery must not be directly above or below a fuel tank, fuel filter, or fitting in a fuel line.”. I’d be willing to bet there are a lot of boats on here the same way lol. Nobody on here is going to be held to this DOT regulation nor cited for it by the USCG unless you stumble across a really anal officer. No Yamaha dealer is going to pay for their employers to be certified electrical technicians and know all forms of DOT regulations lol. I mean yea sure in a perfect world but let’s be realistic here. What he can do is fix the problem himself so it’s done right or have them fix it to (hopefully) make battery secure and clean things up.

Edit - below is a screen grab from a 2022 AR190 boat owner video. Note the location of the battery install. Pretty much the same as mine was. The battery switch right next to it likely isn’t a great idea if there was ever a build-up of fumes lol. According to DOT regulations this is not compliant. I’d bet ~95% of the Yamaha boats sold are done the same way from their respective dealers.



Heres a pic of a 2017 SX190 battery location from an owners video. Mine was mounted in the same general location underneath all the fuel stuff it shouldn’t really be mounted under per DOT....

 

[HawaiiBreeze]

I feel your pain. Looks like the fastest way they could think of doing the job. The lower screen grab above is from my boat before I went dual battery. Some handy pointers in this thread too especially about the battery boxes, my next DIY project. Thanks to Haknslash and FSH 210 Sport for the tips.

 

[marcham]

There should have been a 2nd red boot in the bag of stuff & manuals you got with the boat...

 

[HawaiiBreeze]

There should have been a 2nd red boot in the bag of stuff & manuals you got with the boat...

Not in mine when it arrived in HI in 2017. If I remember correctly some of the "new boat candy" came by mail from the Dealer in CA and some was in the boat. No second red boot but there was a hull plug of some sort (still have it) that was for the transducer but not applicable to the base SX190.

 

[motomandan]

@motomandan you have to read the DOT CFR closely. That is for manufacturer‘s (If it’s installed) or part of the PDI process at their dealer per mfg’s spec. Anything aftermarket or after PoS does not mean dealers, car audio shops, friends install etc are held to the same standard and regulation. Notice that your link is also for “new boat builder“.

View attachment 169222

Whatever suits you! I was in the Marine business for 15 years. The industry standard is repairs and upgrades are done to ABYC standards. When paying for work you should expect the work to be done to ABYC standards for several reasons:
Safety of Crew and Passengers.
Fault in case of Mishap due to repairs and upgrades
Resale Value

 

[haknslash]

@motomandan I didn’t say I agree with their install. Has nothing to do with what suits me. I was merely pointing out that what everyone was citing was listed under the DOT’s manufacture requirements.

 

[JayHat]

So first of all, if I’m seeing it correctly, the dealer hooked up the DVSR correctly in so far as the battery on the right we will call this battery #2 will always get charged when the boat is running when battery #1 on the left is selected. Battery #1 will be the start and house battery, and battery #2 will will get charged but will get isolated when the voltage drops to 12.7 VDC. Therefore, battery #2 will always be charged and ready to use if Battery #1 gets discharged enough to not be able to start the engine. If you were out and battery #1 got too low to start the engine, simply select 1&2 and start the motor, then put the selector back to battery #1 and battery #1 will now get charged by the running engine.

This is the DVSR they installed on your boat. Digital Voltage Sensing Relay (DVSR) 12/24V

View attachment 169166


This is the switch that came stock on my 2020 210 FSH.. really simple and clean. It is bolted to the vertical engine bulkhead.

Square Battery Distribution Cluster for Single Engine with Two Battery Banks

The 716-SQ-140A-DVSR is an ideal replacement for a battery selector switch. Just remove the selector switch and connect the existing wires to a 716 cluster, no extra wires are required for a fully automatic battery management system. To be used in single outboard dual battery bank or single...

www.bepmarine.com

View attachment 169164

View attachment 169165

With this system, you turn both the house and start batteries on, and go boating. The DVSR / VSR closes paralleling the house and start batteries when the start battery reaches 13.2 VDC and stays closed until the voltage drops to 12.7VDC at which time the DVSR opens isolating the two batteries. This way your start battery is always charge and ready to go, and the house battery powers all of the accessories. Having said that, the wiring on your boat is probably different than mine as it was intended to have just one battery.

The nice thing about the 716 switch is that it has an emergency parallel switch just in case you needed more start power from the house battery.

You don’t need us to tell you that was a crappy install… especially since the other Yamaha boats like mine come set up with a much cleaner install in a smaller amount of space. I don’t know what if anything the dealer will do for you now since most of the time electrical parts are non returnable…

There is no reason why you cannot put your batteries in battery boxes to keep any acid from getting on whatever may end up on that storage compartment.

On my 210 FSH the batteries are next to each on the outside of the compartment. You could get the BEP 716 and install it yourself. However, you will need to breakout all of the accessory wiring and land those wires on the House switch, and isolate the engine or start wires and land them on the Start switch.

If you do not want to mess with having to manually switch the batteries, you will have to go with the 716 type of switch.

If you do not mind rotating or alternating the use batteries you could go with the switch below and it would clean up the install greatly and you could tuck everything together in the back of that compartment to free up that wasted space.

Battery Distribution Cluster for Single Engine with Two Battery Banks

The 714-140A-DVSR uses a dual sensing DVSR (710-140A). This system ensures that you will always have a fully charged reserve battery. When the switch is in position one, battery one becomes the sensing battery for the VSR. Battery two, which is in isolation, is charged through the VSR when the...

www.bepmarine.com

View attachment 169167

Personally, I‘d go with the 716 switch, turn on both when you get ready to use the boat and not even worry about it.

Thanks for the great info! I do have a question as to how best to apply a battery maintainer to the system. Can I just put my trickle charger on battery 1 to maintain both batteries or do each battery have to have its own charger? Does the switch have to be on to even absorb a charge? Thanks for the help. Rook over here!

 

[JayHat]

So first of all, if I’m seeing it correctly, the dealer hooked up the DVSR correctly in so far as the battery on the right we will call this battery #2 will always get charged when the boat is running when battery #1 on the left is selected. Battery #1 will be the start and house battery, and battery #2 will will get charged but will get isolated when the voltage drops to 12.7 VDC. Therefore, battery #2 will always be charged and ready to use if Battery #1 gets discharged enough to not be able to start the engine. If you were out and battery #1 got too low to start the engine, simply select 1&2 and start the motor, then put the selector back to battery #1 and battery #1 will now get charged by the running engine.

This is the DVSR they installed on your boat. Digital Voltage Sensing Relay (DVSR) 12/24V

View attachment 169166


This is the switch that came stock on my 2020 210 FSH.. really simple and clean. It is bolted to the vertical engine bulkhead.

Square Battery Distribution Cluster for Single Engine with Two Battery Banks

The 716-SQ-140A-DVSR is an ideal replacement for a battery selector switch. Just remove the selector switch and connect the existing wires to a 716 cluster, no extra wires are required for a fully automatic battery management system. To be used in single outboard dual battery bank or single...

www.bepmarine.com

View attachment 169164

View attachment 169165

With this system, you turn both the house and start batteries on, and go boating. The DVSR / VSR closes paralleling the house and start batteries when the start battery reaches 13.2 VDC and stays closed until the voltage drops to 12.7VDC at which time the DVSR opens isolating the two batteries. This way your start battery is always charge and ready to go, and the house battery powers all of the accessories. Having said that, the wiring on your boat is probably different than mine as it was intended to have just one battery.

The nice thing about the 716 switch is that it has an emergency parallel switch just in case you needed more start power from the house battery.

You don’t need us to tell you that was a crappy install… especially since the other Yamaha boats like mine come set up with a much cleaner install in a smaller amount of space. I don’t know what if anything the dealer will do for you now since most of the time electrical parts are non returnable…

There is no reason why you cannot put your batteries in battery boxes to keep any acid from getting on whatever may end up on that storage compartment.

On my 210 FSH the batteries are next to each on the outside of the compartment. You could get the BEP 716 and install it yourself. However, you will need to breakout all of the accessory wiring and land those wires on the House switch, and isolate the engine or start wires and land them on the Start switch.

If you do not want to mess with having to manually switch the batteries, you will have to go with the 716 type of switch.

If you do not mind rotating or alternating the use batteries you could go with the switch below and it would clean up the install greatly and you could tuck everything together in the back of that compartment to free up that wasted space.

Battery Distribution Cluster for Single Engine with Two Battery Banks

The 714-140A-DVSR uses a dual sensing DVSR (710-140A). This system ensures that you will always have a fully charged reserve battery. When the switch is in position one, battery one becomes the sensing battery for the VSR. Battery two, which is in isolation, is charged through the VSR when the...

www.bepmarine.com

View attachment 169167

Personally, I‘d go with the 716 switch, turn on both when you get ready to use the boat and not even worry about it.

How would you recommend applying a battery maintainer/charger to this system when it’s sitting unused for periods of time?

 

[haknslash]

Thanks for the great info! I do have a question as to how best to apply a battery maintainer to the system. Can I just put my trickle charger on battery 1 to maintain both batteries or do each battery have to have its own charger? Does the switch have to be on to even absorb a charge? Thanks for the help. Rook over here!

I would not use a standard trickle charger but rather get an onboard battery maintainer. I’ve had good results with the popular ProMariner brand. These types of chargers are better than your standard old school trickle charger as they’re “smart” in the sense they have maintenance modes and other features that limit the amount of charging required to keep the batteries in their best shape. You would want to get a dual bank version like the ProSport 12. There are of course other good brands as well but the ProMariner are widely used in the industry.

As far as using them you simply wire them onto each battery and when you’re done boating for the day you plug the battery maintainer into an extension cord and you’re done. It will do its thing and you can leave it plugged in for days or even months without worry, unlike a traditional trickle battery charger.

Reliable marine charging solutions | ProMariner

ProMariner has 40 years of marine battery charging expertise. Our range of marine battery chargers, inverters and isolators provide powerful charging solutions.

www.promariner.com

 

[zipper]

I would not use a standard trickle charger but rather get an onboard battery maintainer. I’ve had good results with the popular ProMariner brand. These types of chargers are better than your standard old school trickle charger as they’re “smart” in the sense they have maintenance modes and other features that limit the amount of charging required to keep the batteries in their best shape. You would want to get a dual bank version like the ProSport 12. There are of course other good brands as well but the ProMariner are widely used in the industry.

As far as using them you simply wire them onto each battery and when you’re done boating for the day you plug the battery maintainer into an extension cord and you’re done. It will do its thing and you can leave it plugged in for days or even months without worry, unlike a traditional trickle battery charger.

Reliable marine charging solutions | ProMariner

ProMariner has 40 years of marine battery charging expertise. Our range of marine battery chargers, inverters and isolators provide powerful charging solutions.

www.promariner.com

X2 on the Promariner chargers. I like mine. Trouble free for the last couple of years on the Beneteau. Very easy to install and connect with battery cables provided.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

How would you recommend applying a battery maintainer/charger to this system when it’s sitting unused for periods of time?

Get a two bank type of charger maintainer with at least 10 amps of charging power per bank, this ensures proper charging of each battery. I have a MinnKota PC MK 220 for my house and start batteries. Minn Kota MK-220 PCL Precision On-Board Charger As well as the MK 330 three bank charger for my trolling motor bank. Plug the charger in after every outing to properly charge the batteries after each use as the charging system on the engine is not powerful enough to do so. Mount the charger on board and you can install one of these Search Results For: 1865108 plug holders to simplify charging.

These chargers are waterproof and ignition proof, this is very important and not all chargers out there are.

One of the features of these chargers is a manual equalization mode, which is for use on flooded lead acid batteries only and is not found on some other brands. The equalization cycle thoroughly cleans the plates and thoroughly mixes the electrolyte which becomes stratified over time. This is over and above the regular bulk charge that happens each time you plug the charger in, and should be performed at least once a year at a minimum, and more regularly if the battery is used / cycled heavily. When I equalize my start and house batteries I lift the ground for the DVSR so it won’t activate, then run the equalization cycle on both batteries, then re attach the ground for the DVSR. I equalize all my batteries once a month during the season as I use them heavily.

The new version of these chargers has a lithium setting as well which is nice if you ever decide to go with lithium batteries.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

MinnKota currently has a promotional thing going on right now, looks like a $25 pre paid card after your purchase.

https://www.minnkotamotors.com/promotions?_ga=2.42560869.1767329759.1641560940-1376821441.1641560940#battery-charger-promo

 

[marcham]

Given your current wiring, you only need a 1 bank charger. The vsr will automatically combine the batteries.

 

[Mainah]

The OP hired a professional to do a job. The professional should have done a professional job.

The first thing that jumps out to me is the DVSR on the floor. What happens when a something leaks in that compartment? What happens if a wet towel is thrown in? The DVSR could be ruined for these normal occuances or at least corroded. Next thing that jumps out is I think I spy bare copper ring terminals instead of tinned copper. Yes there should be boots on all terminals for both safety and because professional to do so.

If battery placement was not discussed then OP should not fault the shop on that. The battery tray not being the right size is less than good. Last thing that jumps out to me is the free span one cable runs in mid air that. This is going to stress the terminations/terminals over time. Pushing something back into compartment could also snag it.

Below is are a fee photos of what I think a custom battery setup should look like on a boat. These were not even done by a shop or trained professional. Just someone who takes their time to do a job right.

 

[JayHat]

Thanks for your reply. Made me feel a lot better telling the shop they had to redo this work because it’s just not right.. placement of the battery is one thing but everything else was just not up to par. What type of battery maintainer do you use?

 

[JayHat]

Given your current wiring, you only need a 1 bank charger. The vsr will automatically combine the batteries.

Does the perko switch have to be on when the battery maintainer is applied? Does it have to be in just battery 1 position or 1&2 position for the batteries to receive charge?

 

[marcham]

Does the perko switch have to be on when the battery maintainer is applied? Does it have to be in just battery 1 position or 1&2 position for the batteries to receive charge?

Currently, the combiner is connected directly to the battery pos terminals, not on the load side of the switch, so the switch plays no part in the function of the combiner.

1, 2, both, off will make no difference. Connect the charger to either battery.

If you get the shop to move the combiner off the floor, make sure they use a permanent sealant, like epoxy or 5200, not just silicone, to fill the holes.

 

[JayHat]

Currently, the combiner is connected directly to the battery pos terminals, not on the load side of the switch, so the switch plays no part in the function of the combiner.

1, 2, both, off will make no difference. Connect the charger to either battery.

If you get the shop to move the combiner off the floor, make sure they use a permanent sealant, like epoxy or 5200, not just silicone, to fill the holes.

I know the shop won’t fill with epoxy.. doubt the even put in silicon. I’ll just do it myself. Those guys are hacks

 

[JayHat]

There should have been a 2nd red boot in the bag of stuff & manuals you got with the boat...

Nope no second boot.. but the tech should of installed one because that’s the professional and safe way to install a battery