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Bimini Crossing Conditions Poll

Under what conditions would you want to go

  • Reasonable seas forecast for both crossings with nice weather while we are in Bimini

    Votes: 31 77.5%
  • Reasonable seas forecast for crossing to, likely rough return, nice weather while we are in Bimini

    Votes: 21 52.5%
  • Reasonable seas forecast for crossing to, likely rough return, nice weather, rough water in Bimini

    Votes: 6 15.0%
  • Reasonable seas forecast for crossing to, likely rough return, frequent rain, nice water in Bimini

    Votes: 14 35.0%
  • Reasonable seas forecast for crossing to, likely rough return, frequent rain, rough water in Bimini

    Votes: 5 12.5%

  • Total voters
    40

StanE

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WOW, you guys are something else. I wrote a lot but deleted it because I don't want to rain on your parade. I hope you have fair weather next year and someone has the sense to turn around if it's not. Maybe get a big boat to escort you over? WOW, can't wait to see more Youtubes. I would have definately turned around, so would Dad.
 

Bruce

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WOW, you guys are something else. I wrote a lot but deleted it because I don't want to rain on your parade. I hope you have fair weather next year and someone has the sense to turn around if it's not. Maybe get a big boat to escort you over? WOW, can't wait to see more Youtubes. I would have definately turned around, so would Dad.
This poll was for the 2016 crossing.

Had you been with us and turned around you would have missed out on a great time in Bimini.

A big escort would only be useful for carrying fuel but it would be too dangerous to get it close to deliver fuel.

Sounds like the ferry or a plane would be your best way to get to Bimini.
 

StanE

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IHi Bruce, As I said, I don't want to rain on anyones parade (no pun intended - LOL). After viewing Rob's Yamaha Jetboat DIY Maintenance at
and reading the candid essay by Bitek (spelling?), it sounds like some people had some problems to put it mildly. I can't imagine the terror going through some of their minds when they are adrift for one hour, then two, then three and even four. I can imagine their wives yelling at them about "Taking me out to the middle of the ocean and running out of fuel" and then saying "I am going to divorce you and take everything you have, except this blooming boat- You can have the boat but I'm taking everythng else" - LOL LOL. I wonder what they were talking about while they were just sitting there.
I believe you have some experience and would feel terrible if something tragic had hapened. I am very happy nothing did. I thought about buying a boat just to join you - the spirit, comraderie, fun and excitement sounded great from last year. A bigger boat could have delivered fuel very easily and certainly picked up all souls on board boats that became disabeled, which by the sounds of it, were a number of them. Better a missing boat than missing friends. Even if the people had to abandon ship and swim to a larger boat with a life line, their life is saved. It was exciting to watch the videos and read about all the boats that ran out of fuel, broke stuff, etc. Not too much stuff like that happens to all my friends here in Fort Lauderdale. I asked my Dad about the worse conditions he has encountered and it was when his submarine surfaced - subs are not built to be on the surface in a storm but in his day, sometimes they had to surface. He also said that his destroyer went to 45 degrees in a storm and it spilt some coffee, but it is built for that. I think those sailors know what they signed up for. Anyway, I hope to watch more exciting videos. Thanks Bruce!
 

Bruce

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@StanE, some chose to hype the difficulty of the crossing. Others like @swatski enjoyed themselves and are very humble about the crossing despite overcoming greater difficulty than most. @Betik stepped up in many ways and will likely return in 2018.

For most Bimini is an awesome vacation with a risky crossing. For others the crossing is everything and Bimini is a nice reward for their adventure. I fall in the former category and did not enjoy this years crossing however at no point did I or my family feel in danger.

I know that the crew and even Captains on many boats were experiencing such water for the first time and were stressed. Anyone who freaked out should not have been on the boat to begin with. Everyone was cautioned at the Captains Meeting that the crossing was going to be painful.

Each Captain made their own decision to leave Port Everglades and to turn back or continue. Some did turn back. More importantly anyone who is concerned that they would be unable to cross in rough water should not consider going to Bimini by boat.

One cabin cruiser had a structural issue or hit something and was towed back after taking on water. Another cabin cruiser ran out of fuel and was towed back. Both cabin cruiser crews flew to
Bimini to enjoy the island.

A Scarab 255 broke its windshield and turned back. I believe the crew flew over.

A pair of Yamahas turned back. One crossed later in the day. The other decided to leave his boat in Florida due to damage from a bouncing anchor.

One old two stroke ski suffered a mechanical failure and was abandoned.

Two Yamahas were rescued and refueled by other Yamahas. One of those had chosen not to cross with us.

There were communications issues which were overcome with boats that chose to cross without long range radios.

All Yamahas, except for the one with anchor damage, made it to Bimini. Overall the percentage of vessels successfully completing the crossing was above average at 88% or 97% if you only consider Yamaha boats. The 2017 Bimini Group did an excellent job of improvising and overcoming despite the rough weather. I am proud of everyone that crossed.
 
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Greg M

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armchair quarterback warning... This trip, and more in the Exumas, has been my bucket list since early 2015. Every year, just flat out bad luck at work has gotten me so I couldnt go. I read everything I can, follow what I can so I can live vicariously thru you all and love you for it!

A few things that concern me with this group trip, and seem to continually happen:

1. Lack of assuming personal responsibility. Everyone looks to Bruce like he is the end all be all to make each and every single call and several act like they have no choice. This is wrong. period. Bruce is the leader as far as organizing the group discounts, giving all the information he can to help you put together YOUR OWN trip to go with others, support for the new or inexperienced, and an all around good person. This whole "well Bruce said this" and "Bruce did that" is effing-bullshit!!! YOU are making the trip. YOU are piloting your boat or riding in a boat. YOU have to look towards yourself FIRST when a situation arises! Bruce is a tour guide in the mountains that knows where the good camp site is and doesn't mind showing you the way if YOU want to go along. If you jump off a cliff, it's on you, not Bruce! Laying ANYTHING at his feet is horseshit in the extreme. ...... last time I checked, no one was being held hostage or had a gun to their head forcing them to "go or else!". Show some damn personal responsibility!

2. I have said in a previous thread (2015 crossing) that anyone making this trip sound easy is essentially inviting someone to show up with their boat, a pocket full of cash, and think the group is their safety net and will take care of them. The general attitude of "I don't need X or Y, 15 boats in the group will have X and Y so if it goes bad they will save me", it's a crock of sh!t and going to get someone killed eventually - it's not if, it's when.

3. How in the hell would you even consider making this trip, under any conditions, and not have essential base things should a problem happen? Hand held radio range of 5 miles, on a 53 mile crossing? Zero spare gas? No gps or you one you can't read it? Sat phone? Epirb? Ditch bag? Secondary bilge pump? No no, I'm traveling with a GROUP! Im safe, I don't need anything because I'm with a GROUP and they will have it and save me!!! lets roll!!!! ...... Julian, can we get sarcasm font/tags? If you aren't equipped and prepared enough to make this trip solo or in someway help yourself at first in an emergency, then at the least be able to contact help if you're stranded and separated from the group under any circumstances or conditions, it's your own fault, not the groups! period, no debate. I find it extremely disturbing that several seem to put more planning of back ups and "what if" thought into the traveling from home to Ft Lauderdale and back part of the trip than they do into going out in open damn ocean!! Last time I checked, a highway hasn't drown anyone or sweep them away 20 miles from dry land! Yet you put tons of thought into the vehicle driving portion and virtually none into the boating side? Whose fault is that?

4. But some things are expensive for a 1 time or once a year trip. Well, what's your life worth to you? I've seen posts from several that it appears their life is worth under $400~600, because a piece of equipment over that amount "just isn't worth it for a 1 time trip". If that's the decision YOU are making for yourself, that's on you, not this group.

5. Gas... ok, this one I'm going to upset someone or possible 3 someone's. I dont give 2 craps what MPG boat X gets, or boat Y gets, or boat W. Every time there are less than ideal crossing conditions, every damn time, it winds up with boats not making it all the way because they ran out of gas and had no spare gas or not enough spare gas because they knew their boat would need it.. (or used their spare gas to help someone without and 1 or both didn't make it!). I have seen it said that the weight vs milage makes extra gas unnecessary or unwise. Gas weighs roughly 6 pounds a gallon. You have 700 pounds of crew, 300 pounds of food/equipment, 3800 pounds of boat.... and its advocated that 60 pounds of fuel (10 gallons) is a not worth it due to weight and because your boat should make it because boat Y can? Are you kidding? Well go fast enough and it's not a problem! ...Don't care!!! That should NOT be the solution addressing the need or un-need of having extra gas!! Would you even dream of driving any distance without a spare tire? No! Hell no!!! On this trip think of how many had 2 spare tires! At least 1 for the truck/SUV and one for the trailer! Hey, if I get a flat, I'll change it, duck off at the next exit and get a new tire mounted so I have a spare again and all good.... right? How many exits can you duck off to in 53 miles of open water? ......exactly.

This trip is a great trip but far far too many see all the pretty pictures of the blue water, and white sand then seem to disconnect their brains. And then when they herd follow and something happens, they immediately whip out the "its someone else's fault not mine" card. And honestly, several member here seem to go way too far encouraging someone to go when it's obvious they shouldn't by the questions they are asking! They aren't encouraging to be jerks, quite the opposite, they want everyone to experience the joy they have making this adventure!!!! The reality is several should get this joy via a plane or ferry, not launch their boat out of the water for 2 hours. Im sure a 50 mile hike in the mountains is stunning! Im also sure making that trip is not for everyone and the easier you make it sound the probability of someone attempting it that is grossly unprepared increases exponentially and should be discouraged!

just my .02

*quick ps to this. I typed this up because every single post and/or video I have read or seen extolling how much they went thru because of running out of gas, being adrift, how they wouldnt do it again, and how it was somebody's fault because they did X.... all had one common element....the person that got into serious trouble literally did not plan much to have self reliance. Their plan was the group will help me or have what I might need..... and they also have the attitude that when misfortune hit them the group making the trip was to blame or a person in the group or members of this forum. All issues that a sat phone (you can rent them), or extra fuel, or a longer range radio, could have basically solved themselves and the danger they faced been avoiding by just some simple self reliance, not being part of a group dependence!! You go as a group to further enhance safety, not being your only plan! That's my point!
 
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StanE

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o Hi Greg M. Thanks for your candid composition! I did not want to be that bold or blunt and thought I would wait until next year and then let everyone know what they will need and go to West Marine on State Rt 84 and get it. Some people come here from BumF***Egypt and think they are an Ocean Warrior and can take on the Great Atlantic. I really do not want to see some poor family die because the husband / father thought he bought some magical boat and it will somehow and mysteriously get them to a safe harbor. hese boats have as Dad says, bow anchors (if a wave comes over the bow). I do not want to insult these boats but they in and of themselves are not adequately equipped to make the crossing safely in the weather turns foul, which I have seen it do in an instant. We were coming back from West End and a squall appeared directly in front of us and just before he entered it, we had a fire in the engine compartment (Yanmar Diesel engines). But we were prepared.

When I bought my Hallett in California, I spend over 4 hours at West Marine just buying electronics. When I bought my 46' round the world Prout Catamaran, considered the Rolls Royce of Catamarans - it makes fresh water, etc, I must have spent a month updating and outfiitting it and that was just to take it to West End, Port Lucaya and Nassau. Why? Because if anything went wrong, you can't pull over and go to a Radio Shack. You must be self reliant! Not like the blind leading the blind.

Besides, the guy below taught me better - though I also did get a scholarship to a Naval School from the Naval Academy Foundation on my own merits.

BTW, what does it take to become an Admiral because I see some people with Admiral next to their name? Some Admirals were posting too, so I wrote the following-
My father was a Commander so I will tell him that I was communicating with an Admiral - he will be impressed. He was a UDT /SEAL, Naval Academy graduate, Submarine Commander, XO of an Intelligence Ship, on a destroyer the Japanese blew up and he had to swim to shore (which was escorting John F Kennedy to take command of his PT boat), his name is in the UDT /SEAL Museum in Florida and had a statute revealed this past November in Coronado for his Team, 26 years Naval Service total. I will tell dad that he must not have done enough because he never made Admiral since there are some Admirals on this forum. I am sure he will be happy for me since I was communicating with an Admiral, although he is 93 and has Alzheimers. I used to go to the SEAL meetings /dinners in Balboa park where everyone was a SEAL including the bartender except me because as I tell everyone "someone has to drive Dad". BTW, the only reason I moved to Ft. Lauderdale was to have a boat behind my house and go to the Bahamas. So if any of these members want to know why I was concerned it is because I don't want any of them to die and then have to read about it in the Sun Sentinel. False bravado kills people. And I hate soap boxes but they need to know that the gulf can turn without much notice and even catch the best and bravest in the world off guard but NOT unprepared. We had flares, radar, sat phone, short wave, ham radio and our antenna was a guy wire that went up to the top of our 65 foot mast. And that was just to go to the Bahamas. What is it about Luck favors the prepared. The Boy Scout Motto too says Be Prepared.

Oh yes, for you naval history types, my Dad wore an earing and when I overheard this, I was confused for obvious reasons. I finally asked my Dad about this and he said that when you are on a ship that sinks, you wear an earing to show you lost your ship. Of course, this was a long time ago and no, Dads ears were never pierced. So I naturally asked what happens if you are on 3 ships that sink. Dad said you get sent home- LOL. Of course if that happens on a sub, you don't have to worry about being sent home - you are eternally at sea!! (Did you know that?) Dad lost friends on the Thresher. So yes, it can be bad, very bad out there. Be prepared. Don't go if you don't know. Thanks for reading.
 

Julian

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haknslash

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Considering how apparently inept our navy is today with running into freighters and such, we should probably distance our fleet from any confusion :D
 

StanE

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Bruce
Had you been with us and turned around you would have missed out on a great time in Bimini.

A big escort would only be useful for carrying fuel but it would be too dangerous to get it close to deliver fuel.

Sounds like the ferry or a plane would be your best way to get to Bimini.
Hi Bruce. As they say a picture is worth...but I do want to say a little...
When I was 7, my Dad's SEAL Team taught me how to swim and that was down to a wreck off of Key West. I can't count all he boats we have had or the trips / voyages we have taken. Your comment about taking a plane over to the Bahamas (cause I might not have sea legs) made me laugh! I might have done that but Dad sold the Cessna 172 Skyhawk that we owned. I did not want it and prefer to boat instead. From dinghys to 52' Schooners, planes to 46' Catamarans and cigarette boats, if it goes by air, land or sea, Dad has done it and I am usually there, though I did graduate from a Naval School myself. I also got my dolphins after going down in Dad's submarine. I moved to Ft. Lauderdale to live on the water and boat to the Bahamas, otherwise I would move back to San Diego. We are a real boating family. So I found your comment about flying to the Bahamas quite humorous. My comments that piqued your interest were just to slightly bring attention to the fact that you had a lot of people that do not belong out in the ocean in a boat that quite frankly, is a toy boat. I don't care if you can get to the Bahamas in it - I could probably get there in a canoe but that does NOT make the canoe a safe vessel for that voyage, especially if I did not have vast experience in that canoe in all sorts of conditions. I am not trying to spark a contest of words with you - it is just meant to save lives. If 1 person is lost at sea, then all the trips are called into question. The ocean demands and commands respect. My Dad was a Commander in the Navy, graduated from the Naval Academy, was a UDT /SEAL, submarine commander, XO of Intelligence ships, on destroyers, PT Boats, etc. and if I told him I was going to Bimini in a small OPEN BOW boat (not very seaworthy), he would shake his head and think that he did not raise /instruct me properly. If I told him I organized a trip with people that had NEVER been on the Ocean before, in Open Bow, small jet boats, he would scold me not for risking MY life, cause he knows I am resourceful, but for risking the lives of others that are unknowledgeable, unskilled, probably unhealthy and not skilled sailors (meaning they don't know how to float without a lifejacket for hours) because they think that others in the group can rescue them.

Please let the Marine that went with you that there is a picture below from the UDT giving the Marines directions when they land on a Japanese Island so they don't get lost (no pun intended). There is also a picture of Dad going to work by jumping off a rubber boat at 28 knots. They did this while being shot at by the Japanese. When your father does that, you can believe he instructs his son on the right way, the safe way and to protect others, sometime from themsleves.

And yes, it is very easy to refuel a small boat from another boat in the Ocean. Like everything else, you just have to be prepared. In spite of my background, I still took the Coast Guard Safe Boating Class before I bought my first cigarette boat. Be prepared - the weather can get nasty without notice. Thanks for your patience and I like comments that make me laugh. Still friends? I'll be an escort next year unless you kick me out - LOL.
 

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Bruce

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@StanE, it sounds like your Dad is a great man who has blessed you with a very nice life. Please pass on our gratitude for his service.

As for the rest, thank you for your advice. Those with larger boats either tell us how brave or crazy we are for making the crossing. As for me I am going to continue enjoying Bimini in a boat that is practical for my family and not concern myself with what others think.
 

seanmclean

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Bruce

Snip
Your Dad sounds like a great guy, probably someone I'd love to take a ride with, enjoy a cigar and hear some stories. I bet he also doesn't talk to people the way you did.
 

Greg M

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nothing in life is safe if you think about it from certain perspectives.

What's the point I was trying to make on my soapbox?

This trip, and it's very obvious a number of those going, gave more thought and what if planning driving to and from ft lauderdale than into taking a boat 53 miles across open ocean. There is not one participant that gets loaded up in their vehicle, and doesn't have a plan or set reactions and procedures should something happen during the driving part. They check their spares, they grease hubs, change oil, check fluids, buy new tires, they strap and secure, they plan a route, they know what to do if a tire blows, they stop to get gas before they run out, pee breaks, the list goes on. All of this is pre-thought and to a good degree prepared for and not one bit of it relies on outside help! They know they aren't in a group, so they plan to rely on themselves first.

Something out of the ordinary happens, a trailer gets ruined, everyone banded together and one person took their trailer up get someone's boat and bring it! THAT is why you travel as a group, when something way way outside the norm happens, the pooled resources of the group can be brought to bear and get someone out of a jam.

Now we are out in the open ocean. We are out of our element (most are). They have been told all the stories. They, hopefully, have made an attempt to try to get some basic understanding of what they are about to do. And here is where they decide to not rely on themselves first and adopt the mentality of the group will bail me out?!? To not have a sufficient radio? Not to have spare gas? Not to have a gps they can use? Why? They get the mindset of "I'm with the group and the group will provide anything I might need". This is ridiculous!!! Then people try finger pointing if/when anything goes bad instead of asking themselves why they didn't have what they needed to literally solve their own problem!!! THAT is what grinds my gears!! The mindset of it's someone else's fault, not mine, zero personal responsibility, zero self reliance, and ready to point a finger.

Sorry everyone, but I get triggered when I see this attitude, and I see it a LOT, daily! I literally had a lady try to explain to me how it wasn't her fault she got on the wrong on ramp to I-40, was going the wrong way, realized it, tries to turn around on a bridge just over the top of a hill, at night.... and got clipped by a semi and literally blamed the semi and the state and SUED!!! And to her core she honestly believed it was their fault not hers!

last words.... if you aren't equipped or prepared to help yourself first, then you're not equipped or prepared to be additional help to the group or anyone else. You're just a draw on them.
 
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Ronnie

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I've read all the responses and was going to reply to the poll but found that none of the choices apply too me. I would go if I thought it was safe to go and would not hesitate to delay or call it off altogether if conditions on departure day warranted it.

This is from the perspective of a person who would have to trailer a boat from the east to west coast (~3k miles each way) to spend a week or so on the water, so aside from the cost (money and time) of being there the cost of getting there and back would be considerable, so I would not make the decision to delay or opt out lightly.

I salute @Bruce for all the work that he does to organize the trip every year. However, this is not a sponsored trip where participants pay Bruce a fee and he "takes care of everything" so I certainly would not look to him or anyone else to make my "go / no go" decision or to blame if something goes wrong and somebody gets hurt on my boat or my property is damaged or destroyed. They key words being the ones that start with "m" and end with "y".

It's very basic really, if you are going to go on a trip like this you are going to have to assume the risks that go with it and take steps to mitigate those risks. Nobody can guarantee good weather but everyone involved should be able to look at the water, consider the forecasts and assess whether they have the skills not just the desire and/or equipment to safely make the trip. Just the thought of running out of fuel in the open ocean would have me buying 3 to 6 five gallon gas containers and fuel for them. Not everyone can afford a dedicated radio or chart plotter either but there are decent workarounds for these things for those that prepare accordingly before the trip starts.

I'm surprised that I haven't read about a group "Plan B". If I had to call the trip off after getting to Florida I would try and hook up with others in the same situation and visit nearby waters or lakes on the way back. If I could not join anyone or could not get anyone to join me so be it, I would at least ask for recommendations on lakes to hit on the way back.
 
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