Chap and Scarab going to 600 hp?!

[MattFX4]

https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/tech...tm_content=textliFnk&utm_campaign=enewsletter

 

[PaulyB]

300 hp out of 3 cylinders? Yikes...

 

[MattFX4]

300 hp out of 3 cylinders? Yikes...

Ticking time bomb?

 

[sethman919]

Maintenance free supercharger!!!!

 

[swatski]

I think they will be extremely difficult to compete with. If I were in Yamaha shoes I would be $hitting myself.
Those are essentially bulletproof aricraft engines, most if not all of the issues with BRP-powered boats have been watercraft related, such as carbon seals, clamps, hoses, electronics/sensors.
They also have the best pumps.
They are incorporating changes that seem to address all the common issues plaguing the early 2014+ boats. They are learning fast, and paying attention to noise and vastly improved (inter)cooling, etc.

EDIT: At this point I would be concerned with dealer network/support, not everyone can service Rotax engines. I would have zero concerns with the motors.
I would also say - those 3 cylinder engines sound way better that the Yamaha 1.8s. Same high revving noise frequency but different harmonics, to my ear they just sound a lot more "pleasant".

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[haknslash]

Yea there's a few recent posts talking about them using the ACE engines in their boats. I don't see how Yamaha could compete in a horsepower race. It will be interesting how they respond in the new few years. Any new marine powerplant they would come out with would go to the PWC's for a few years before ever making it over to the boats.

 

[swatski]

The key word is efficiency.

Think about Yamaha outboards! If they could get those into the jet boats, that would be game over.
But that will not happen, the engines would cost more than my new twin jet boat, lol.

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[MattFX4]

Seems like Yamaha does pretty well with the 1.8’s though. A twin engine 360hp 24’er will run 52. The 500hp chaps only run a few more mph right, but burn a ton more fuel.

 

[Ziess21]

I agree that Yamaha definitely has the leg up in hull design and efficiency when it comes to the pumps. How else would the other brands have more HP and in some cases less speed?

 

[biffdotorg]

Because HP is not directly reflected to speed in boats and PWC. It helps obviously, but there are way more factors, and the cost to get more speed is way more in boats.

Yamaha knows how to make an efficient triple, especially boosted. Yamaha is limited to under 1000cc in the ATV and Sled arena. They can go bigger, but they want to utilize similar engines in ATV's which are limited to 1000cc in many states. So their current big dog is half the CC of our engines and puts out just over 200hp boosted. Most can get 280hp out of them with tuning and exhaust. Keep in mind, this is under 1000cc.

So to make that comparison, a boosted engine half the size and much less weight in a PWC would be desirable. In a boat where we are adding hundreds if not thousands of pounds of ballast, weight is not as much concern. This is why I could imagine them putting a pair of SVHO motors in the 2019 to compete. But realistically, it's not an issue and most of us are happy with the performance of our boats. Many would also take long term reliability over that extra 5-10mph of top end.

 

[Jgorm]

Probably burns 20+gallons per hour! There had to be a point where a 454 and a Berkeley pump becomes more efficient and cheaper.

 

[Gunny]

WOW!

 

[swatski]

Probably burns 20+gallons per hour! There had to be a point where a 454 and a Berkeley pump becomes more efficient and cheaper.

SVHO burns 21gph at WOT...
That's 42 GALLONS PER HOUR for twins, BTW. LOL
However, at cruising speeds SC idles and fuel consumption is comparable to HO.

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[seadude]

I think it's more likely this motor is for more overpowered PWCs. While a 60+mph 600hp twin jet-power family runabout is an interesting concept, it makes very little sense for many reasons. Sounds also like they finally redesigned their failure-prone superchargers (and these PWC engines bear no relation to the rotax light aircraft engines).

 

[swatski]

these PWC engines bear no relation to the rotax light aircraft engines

The newest PWC ACE engines and the newest 915is aircraft engines are built in the same factory, platform, and share technology and several key components. Of course those are very different beasts, from cooling to gear, but the underlying technology is absolutely related, if not common...

I think it's more likely this motor is for more overpowered PWCs. While a 60+mph 600hp twin jet-power family runabout is an interesting concept, it makes very little sense for many reasons.

Yamaha SVHO engines strike me as PWC specials. I'm not sure I would consider running a twin SVHO boat burning over 40 gallons of gas an hour as "recreational boating"... So, I kind of agree... But the point is those ACE engines that make a boat capable of 65mph will cruise at 35mph with extreme ease and extreme fuel efficiency.

As far as the market, one can already buy a Scarab or a Chaparral jet boat at the same price as a Yamaha jet boat...! Which is crazy. If BRP get their act together with the boat makers (primarily Chaparral and Scarab) and fix the noise and all the major QC issues, and figure our the technical support - Yamaha is dead in the water.


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[the MfM]

Every time I get my boat to 50+ the wife tells me to slow down.

 

[Evil Sports]

Impressive

 

[Julian]

The newest PWC ACE engines and the newest 915is aircraft engines are built in the same factory, platform, and share technology and several key components. Of course those are very different beasts, from cooling to gear, but the underlying technology is absolutely related, if not common...


Yamaha SVHO engines strike me as PWC specials. I'm not sure I would consider running a twin SVHO boat burning over 40 gallons of gas an hour as "recreational boating"... So, I kind of agree... But the point is those ACE engines that make a boat capable of 65mph will cruise at 35mph with extreme ease and extreme fuel efficiency.

As far as the market, one can already buy a Scarab or a Chaparral jet boat at the same price as a Yamaha jet boat...! Which is crazy. If BRP get their act together with the boat makers (primarily Chaparral and Scarab) and fix the noise and all the major QC issues, and figure our the technical support - Yamaha is dead in the water.


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That is a lot of stuff to fix! That said, competition is a good thing!

They do still need to figure out a solution for handling impeller access without requiring you enter the water....Yamaha has them beat there! They can talk all they want about their "shaft sleeve" that supposedly prevents ropes from getting wrapped around it...but as we've seen (and most of us predicted)...that is total bullshit. Hopefully they've also addressed their melting exhaust components?

 

[swatski]

Every time I get my boat to 50+ the wife tells me to slow down.

Your wife is a awesome!!!!

Kate starts screaming when we're approaching 35mph, you would think we were about to sonic boom.

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[haknslash]

Your wife is a awesome!!!!

Kate starts screaming when we're approaching 35mph, you would think we were about to sonic boom.

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My wife is the same. I get "the look" often and I'm not even pushing the engine.