CO risk on swim platform

[TheGreekTitan]

I've read discussions about the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning here in the past. I think it's good to revisit important issues such as this from time to time.

If you allow people to ride on the swim platform while under way, there is a risk of CO poisoning. In GA it is legal to ride there. I personally do not allow my guests to do so, but have no problem with other boat owners doing whatever they choose as long as it does not affect the safety or comfort of others on the lake.

North Carolina creates "Ravens Rule"
http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/35455517/surprising-cause-of-death-in-teen-boating-accident-creates-ravens-rule

Have fun, and be safe!

 

[haknslash]

I wished Yamaha would do a snorkel and pipe the exhaust into the water. Similar to what some of the wake and surf boat guys do with using the FAE or Fresh Air Exhaust if they're boat didn't come stock with one. Some of the newer model surf boats now come equipped with a similar "fresh air or clean" exhaust systems.

I hate smelling the fumes when surfing or slowly creeping down a cove with the wind at your stern. You can also see the exhaust steam on our boats linger around when you get on plane at WOT like in this part of the video.

Some people make their own as well, of course not looking as nice but serves the purpose. I can't help but wonder if we could make one for ours but it would need to be a tight bend as the exhaust is 90° to the pump and tucked in the little side area plus we would need to keep away from the moving nozzle, fins, etc but I think something could be done.

 

[Scottintexas]

I like the snorkel/down pipe idea also,

With all the discussion about this I was thinking of taking a household detector with LCD reading out on the boat and seeing what it says,

I also bought a smoke bomb to test out on the back for visual confirmation of what's happening but have been to afraid to try it thinking I'll be cleaning smoke dust up for the next year,

 

[captras]

I've read discussions about the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning here in the past. I think it's good to revisit important issues such as this from time to time.

If you allow people to ride on the swim platform while under way, there is a risk of CO poisoning. In GA it is legal to ride there. I personally do not allow my guests to do so, but have no problem with other boat owners doing whatever they choose as long as it does not affect the safety or comfort of others on the lake.

North Carolina creates "Ravens Rule"
http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/35455517/surprising-cause-of-death-in-teen-boating-accident-creates-ravens-rule

Have fun, and be safe!

It wasnt until recently that I learned that CO poisoning is the main reason you should not ride back there.....I thought it was just because of the risk of falling in

 

[biglar155]

This is a good reminder.

For those unfamiliar: CO (carbon monoxide) is a Chemical Asphyxiant. It bonds with the hemoglobin in your blood MUCH better than oxygen does.

The hemoglobin is the transport mechanism to carry oxygen to your cells. Think of them as little trucks. If given the choice, they will ALWAYS grab a CO molecule instead of an O2 molecule. This means that the "little trucks" in your blood will rapidly be too full of CO (with nowhere to drop it) to be able to carry oxygen.

This means that a person can be overcome very quickly. Simply removing a victim to clear air is not enough. The bloodstream is loaded with CO which it will not give up easily. The victim needs medical attention.

Don't confuse this with CO2 (carbon dioxide). CO2 is a Simple Asphyxiant. It can build up and displace the oxygen in an area but it won't load up your bloodstream either.

Long time board members probably think I sound like a broken record every time someone mentions this but I've worked in the steel industry my entire life (started right out of college as a Controls Engineer on the Blast Furnaces and the Coke Oven Battery on Zug Island near Detroit MI) and we have to deal with CO awareness every day. I have a VERY healthy respect for the stuff. You'd be amazed at the places it can show up that you'd never dream of until you carry a meter around with you all day.

 

[jameskeller76]

I wished Yamaha would do a snorkel and pipe the exhaust into the water. Similar to what some of the wake and surf boat guys do with using the FAE or Fresh Air Exhaust if they're boat didn't already pipe their exhaust into the water. Some of the newer model surf boats have similar "clean" exhaust systems stock.

I hate smelling the fumes when surfing or slowly creeping down a cove with the wind at your stern. You can also see the exhaust steam on our boats linger around when you get on plane at WOT like in this part of the video.

Some people make their own as well, of course not looking as nice but serves the purpose. I can't help but wonder if we could make one for ours but it would need to be a tight bend as the exhaust is 90° to the pump and tucked in the little side area plus we would need to keep away from the moving nozzle, fins, etc but I think something could be done.

[/

I like the snorkel/down pipe idea also,

With all the discussion about this I was thinking of taking a household detector with LCD reading out on the boat and seeing what it says,

I also bought a smoke bomb to test out on the back for visual confirmation of what's happening but have been to afraid to try it thinking I'll be cleaning smoke dust up for the next year,

These handing devices are used to check for spillage at the draft hood when performing home inspections. Might be a less messy way to accomplish the test.

 

[Tobes]

@haknslash If you really hate the smell, why not throw some catalytic converters in?

That said, CO does not smell. You can have CO in the air and never know it. I personally have a VERY hard time believing that there is enough CO on the swim platform to make a bit of difference while underway. I can see that while idling a long there may be a small amount, but definitely not enough to create a danger. Just my opinion though and hardly fact. I would be we have much more CO intake when we start our boats in the garage than anyone will ever get on the swim platform.

 

[haknslash]

@haknslash If you really hate the smell, why not throw some catalytic converters in?

I don't want a big chunk sitting in my engine bay like the Rotax powered boats have with their massive cats!

But seriously though I just would like to get the exhaust from looming around the swim deck and pipe it into the water. Heck...who knows maybe it will drop like .0000001 db too and we know Yami's could use that lol. I took my parents out fishing one time last year and they couldn't use the swim platform at all because of the lingering fumes. On windy days and depending on the direction it can creep back into the captains chair area and can be a bit annoying.

 

[Rod5]

On windy days and depending on the direction lingering fumes can creep back into the captains chair area and can be a bit annoying.

Just push that lever on your right forward when this happens...

 

[seadude]

While undesirable for a number of reasons, catalytic converters solve this issue and really are a good idea for watersport boats!

 

[subysti]

We did this conversation last year. I put a CO detector on the back of the boat on the top seat and it never beeped. Tried at no wake speeds and at throttle and nothing. Only way it ever made a noise was when it was held down close to the water off the back of the boat. Outside I don't think you will get enough CO back there. If that were the case you better not ride a quad, motorcycle or snowmobile. Sleds exhaust right under your feet.

 

[Bill D]

@haknslash if you have enough ballast, you don't need the exhaust piping.

 

[TheGreekTitan]

I agree that it's pretty much a freak accident, and highly unlikely to happen to anyone here. But, it has happened, and will happen again.

From the article linked in the OP.

"Investigators estimate the boat was traveling at the relatively slow speed of 10 miles per hour, preventing the toxic fumes from dissipating more quickly in the surrounding air."

As mentioned...I'm a live and let live kind of guy. Just thought it would be good to bring awareness (again) to a potential catastrophe, regardless of the ultra low possibility of occurrence.

 

[buckbuck]

A bit off topic, but I like the idea of piping under water to reduce the noise. Can these engines handle the increased back pressure?

 

[GTBRMC]

A bit off topic, but I like the idea of piping under water to reduce the noise. Can these engines handle the increased back pressure?

I had the same thought... a couple of those photos showed major reduction in cross-sectional area + two pipes to one outlet (not Yamaha photos). Not good, as a general rule,

 

[tdonoughue]

I think CO is only one of the risks (note: risk, not certainty) of riding on the back. All those warning stickers everyone rips off also note that if you fall off the back while the boat is under power, you risk some SERIOUS damage. I think this is a much bigger risk. Especially with the acceleration our boats can dish out. Not hard to see someone who is not ready flying right off the back and into a jet at close range.

So, on my boat, no one is back there when underway (except to attach a line near at the dock while at zero speed).

 

[haknslash]

It talks about the back pressure here http://www.freshairexhaust.com/about-us/performance-2/

 

[Julian]

As @biglar155 points out, CO is so dangerous because it bonds with your hemoglobin preventing oxygen from doing so. This bond is strong and takes a while for your body to eliminate. So sitting on the stern of your boat while the driver tows people at wake surf speeds could very well cause a problem. The biggest danger isn't from death due to CO, but rather having them faint, fall into the water without a vest and disappear below the surface while unconscious and drown. So wearing a life vest is a good way to save a life in this regard....but better to avoid CO in general.

Riding back there briefly..not an issue....hanging out back there for more than a few minutes risks CO buildup in the bloodstream that takes HOURS to dissipate.

No sitting on the back on my boat...just not worth it.....plenty of nice seats in the boat!

 

[Scottintexas]

I very ignorant of mechanics and am genuinely asking a question I have no idea what the answer is,

Do all engines (relatively speaking) create the same amount of CO or does it depend on the fuel mixture or something else? Is a newer fuel injected engine likely to produce less CO ? I noticed the other day being around a 70's car and smelling the exhaust thinking "I haven't smelled that smell in years"

 

[tdonoughue]

All internal combustion engines create CO as a result of incomplete combustion. That is why catalytic converters reduce CO--they 'burn' it off (completing the combustion process).