EV discussion - hate or love?

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Seeing 20-40K off MSRP on the higher end models. Did a quick dive into charging though, and now its out of the running. My 60A Tesla charger could give it about 30% a day. I'd need a panel upgrade to add a second larger charger, nevermind the actual cost of all those watts LOL. Looks pretty badass though.

Never thought about this…. I thought 60A was the largest charger they had. Those truck batteries are way more serious than a M3/Y though. 30% on a 60A charger in 24 hours though…. You sure that’s right?

 

[BlkGS]

Nothing is selling right now. I’m seeing fire sales everywhere. I’ve seen 100k hummers go on lease for <$700 a month on leasehackr.

Well they're not doing any real deals on nice ICE trucks. I casually look for a loaded V8 f150 deal, and they don't exist.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Well they're not doing any real deals on nice ICE trucks. I casually look for a loaded V8 f150 deal, and they don't exist.

I've seen 20% off again. Mixing that with one of the good finance deals probably doable.

 

[Bluewater272]

Never thought about this…. I thought 60A was the largest charger they had. Those truck batteries are way more serious than a M3/Y though. 30% on a 60A charger in 24 hours though…. You sure that’s right?

Yeah, the battery is massive. 75kWh on the model Y vs 205 kWh on the hummer - with similar range. I think they have home chargers up to 80A now.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Yeah, the battery is massive. 75kWh on the model Y vs 205 kWh on the hummer - with similar range. I think they have home chargers up to 80A now.

That is a major turn off for sure. We have had PHEVs for so long now, I just think 2 hours is full charge. The Ram Charger is only 92kwh. I am excited to see real world results on that.

 

[2kwik4u]

Yeah, the battery is massive. 75kWh on the model Y vs 205 kWh on the hummer - with similar range. I think they have home chargers up to 80A now.

I feel like I saw Ford offering a 100A awhile back. Might be misremembering, but I feel pretty confident in that.

60A @ 10hrs is 144kWh, that's over 50% of the Hummer EV battery. Puts a full charge at a shade over 14hrs, 50% in just over 7hrs. Not counting some efficiency drop. Did I miss calculate something?

Those watts are still expensive though, and the Hummer isn't exactly efficient (relative to other EV's) at converting those watts to miles.

I do really like the looks. They're VERY wide. I haven't driven one, but it's near the top of my list to replace the Rivian when this lease is up. Especially if they're still doing stupid cheap lease deals like they are now. Might have to go do that once the weather clears up a little bit. Local dealership has GMC and Cadillac in the same building. Getting a drive in a Sierra, an Escalade IQ, and a Hummer all at the same time might make for an interesting afternoon.

I really want to love my Rivian. The chassis is exceptionally well sorted in terms of driving dynamics. The breadth of capability from canyon carving to rock crawling is very impressive. But then I spent 8hrs in it yesterday driving home from KY, and a good portion of that was taken up screwing with the inconsistent dash vents, feeling the rear motor engage/disengage, and listening to the rattle in the front left. It's just little things like that, that are killing the experience for me. Maybe it's just my truck, as the complaints from others at the meet a few weeks ago didn't echo the same issues. We'll see where I land in another 28mo.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

I feel like I saw Ford offering a 100A awhile back. Might be misremembering, but I feel pretty confident in that.

60A @ 10hrs is 144kWh, that's over 50% of the Hummer EV battery. Puts a full charge at a shade over 14hrs, 50% in just over 7hrs. Not counting some efficiency drop. Did I miss calculate something?

Those watts are still expensive though, and the Hummer isn't exactly efficient (relative to other EV's) at converting those watts to miles.

I do really like the looks. They're VERY wide. I haven't driven one, but it's near the top of my list to replace the Rivian when this lease is up. Especially if they're still doing stupid cheap lease deals like they are now. Might have to go do that once the weather clears up a little bit. Local dealership has GMC and Cadillac in the same building. Getting a drive in a Sierra, an Escalade IQ, and a Hummer all at the same time might make for an interesting afternoon.

I really want to love my Rivian. The chassis is exceptionally well sorted in terms of driving dynamics. The breadth of capability from canyon carving to rock crawling is very impressive. But then I spent 8hrs in it yesterday driving home from KY, and a good portion of that was taken up screwing with the inconsistent dash vents, feeling the rear motor engage/disengage, and listening to the rattle in the front left. It's just little things like that, that are killing the experience for me. Maybe it's just my truck, as the complaints from others at the meet a few weeks ago didn't echo the same issues. We'll see where I land in another 28mo.

I HATED the digital dash vents in our M3. Some things should not be digital. Volume knobs and AC vents are at the top of the list.

 

[2kwik4u]

I HATED the digital dash vents in our M3. Some things should not be digital. Volume knobs and AC vents are at the top of the list.

Yeap, hate them here as well.

Whats worse than them digital, is that the software OFTEN looses track of where they are (guessing they are counting steps on a stepper motor with no real feedback, and the motor slips, or the mechanism slips). The only way to "recalibrate" them is to run them to both ends of the range multiple times. THEN the slipping is mitigated and they'll return to preset locations. Have to do it about every 3rd time in the truck. Gets worse when you preheat/cool the cabin, as Rivian thought it would be a good idea to change the vent directions between heating/cooling from where you left them. So it's not even like I can find a position I like, because it'll be different the next time I get back to it anyway.

Between the vents and PAAK uncertainty the initial "touch points" on the truck give a crap vibe before you even get to drive it and enjoy the remainder of the experience, that is honestly pretty decent.

 

[BlkGS]

That is a major turn off for sure. We have had PHEVs for so long now, I just think 2 hours is full charge. The Ram Charger is only 92kwh. I am excited to see real world results on that.

I still say it's going to be a game changer. I also think it could get away with a smaller battery. It's supposed to do like 90 miles on the battery, they could cut that in half and still have plenty of EV range for most people (which would likely result in a pretty decent cost savings).

That said, I have very little faith in Ram to not ruin it with pricing.being far too high.

 

[2kwik4u]

they could cut that in half and still have plenty of EV range for most people

I disagree on this one little part here. I think that 75-90mi range window is about right for an active family/person in a medium/small city where you find most pickups. Smaller city's need a lot more, as population will be spread further away from town, larger cities will need less since more people live closer to "stuff" they need/want.

Take my daily route for instance. I'm 25mi from the office, plus I usually run out for lunch, so my daily "minimum" is around 65-70mi. THEN, if I have soccer practice, a few errands to run, and make a stop by the car wash on the way home, I'm into that 80-ish mile range. Throw a bit more on there so you aren't running the thing to empty every day, and you get 92mi range. This seems pretty typical for **most** of the people in our office as well. Sure, some days

Of course we have one guy who lives 3 blocks from the office, and another guy that drives 100mi one way, but I would say 75% of the office is in that 65-85mi total driving distance per day a few days a week. Some days it's just there and back with no lunch and I can get done for 50-ish miles. Some days I'm just over 100.

Another interesting point. I came in hot last night from the return trip from KY. Had 2% (5mi) left when we pulled in around 8pm. Went to leave this morning and was at 73% (223mi). I'm only using a "little" mobile charger that is limited at 32A (7.4kW). Since I rarely charge to over 85%, and most days only charge to 70%, this was largely a non-issue. I have the "large" pack that's 131kWh, and I won't even come close to using more than 100mi of that today.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

I still say it's going to be a game changer. I also think it could get away with a smaller battery. It's supposed to do like 90 miles on the battery, they could cut that in half and still have plenty of EV range for most people (which would likely result in a pretty decent cost savings).

That said, I have very little faith in Ram to not ruin it with pricing.being far too high.

90 miles is perfect. Our new home we are outside the city, so need about 60 miles round trip. At 80mph that an advertised 75-80miles.

 

[BlkGS]

I disagree on this one little part here. I think that 75-90mi range window is about right for an active family/person in a medium/small city where you find most pickups. Smaller city's need a lot more, as population will be spread further away from town, larger cities will need less since more people live closer to "stuff" they need/want.

Take my daily route for instance. I'm 25mi from the office, plus I usually run out for lunch, so my daily "minimum" is around 65-70mi. THEN, if I have soccer practice, a few errands to run, and make a stop by the car wash on the way home, I'm into that 80-ish mile range. Throw a bit more on there so you aren't running the thing to empty every day, and you get 92mi range. This seems pretty typical for **most** of the people in our office as well. Sure, some days

Of course we have one guy who lives 3 blocks from the office, and another guy that drives 100mi one way, but I would say 75% of the office is in that 65-85mi total driving distance per day a few days a week. Some days it's just there and back with no lunch and I can get done for 50-ish miles. Some days I'm just over 100.

Another interesting point. I came in hot last night from the return trip from KY. Had 2% (5mi) left when we pulled in around 8pm. Went to leave this morning and was at 73% (223mi). I'm only using a "little" mobile charger that is limited at 32A (7.4kW). Since I rarely charge to over 85%, and most days only charge to 70%, this was largely a non-issue. I have the "large" pack that's 131kWh, and I won't even come close to using more than 100mi of that today.

When I lived in a small town people were a LOT closer to the office. We had a few people who lived in the next town over, or the next county, but that was still only 25 miles one way. I knew several people commuting 30-40 miles one way now in a bigger city.

That said, I think you're looking at the range all wrong. Unlike an EV, nothing bad happens when you run out of range. You're gonna need to burn a gallon a month or so (wild ass guess) to keep the gas from going bad in the lines. So if it's a little cold, you don't hit your best case scenario range estimate because you're going fast, etc... it's no big deal. Your generator kicks on and gives you a little charge.

Anyways, I think they could offer a shorter range version and shave 5k off the cost with no real downside to their offering. Offer the 90kwh package a 45-50 kwh pack. Even better would be a modular pack architecture where you can add/remove capacity in like 15-20 kwh quantities.

 

[Bluewater272]

60A @ 10hrs is 144kWh, that's over 50% of the Hummer EV battery. Puts a full charge at a shade over 14hrs, 50% in just over 7hrs. Not counting some efficiency drop. Did I miss calculate something?

Just going mostly off what I'm reading from owners on Reddit. My charger is on a 60A circuit but only delivers 48A, and I think our EV rates are only 8 hours a day. 80A chargers need to be on a 100A circuit (what Ford sells) - not sure I've seen any higher than that.

 

[2kwik4u]

Just going mostly off what I'm reading from owners on Reddit. My charger is on a 60A circuit but only delivers 48A, and I think our EV rates are only 8 hours a day. 80A chargers need to be on a 100A circuit (what Ford sells) - not sure I've seen any higher than that.

I bet that's what I read. 80A on a 100A circuit.

Trying to fit into EV rates makes sense. I've seen some large cuts for time of use savings. I'm fortunate that electricity is cheap currently at $0.13/kWh all in (with no time brackets around that). 48A wouldn't quite get you a "half tank" on a Hummer in those 8hrs.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

At 100k they should be installing in-home chargers for free IMO. 100A is insane, a lot of home still run 100A panels and most are 200.

A lot of home will need a full new line into the house to support that.

 

[Julian]

Better question than the length of the warranty is the number of visits it's made. Ask me how I know

How's your Hyundai holding up in terms of service visits?

Mine has been bullet proof so far. I take it in for tire rotation and sw recall fixes (only one I found useful), have 36k miles on it and still on original tires. Delighted so far.