New PerfectPass product??

[Scottie]

Is it possible to change the pumps? Wonder how much that would run you

Should be able to just bolt on the new nozzle. Listed at $126.

2019 Yamaha 212X (XBT1800AU) Jet Unit 1 | Yamaha Sports Plaza

Shop online for OEM Jet Unit 1 parts that fit your 2019 Yamaha 212X (XBT1800AU), search all our OEM Parts or call at (503) 669-2000

www.yamahasportsplaza.com

 

[swatski]

Is it possible to change the pumps? Wonder how much that would run you

I think it’d be almost 2k for twins, and I do not believe the parts are readily available to ship yet.
Easy to check for example looking at babbitts microfiches. But I don’t know if the parts are in stock ready to ship.

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[swatski]

Should be able to just bolt on the new nozzle. Listed at $126.

2019 Yamaha 212X (XBT1800AU) Jet Unit 1 | Yamaha Sports Plaza

Shop online for OEM Jet Unit 1 parts that fit your 2019 Yamaha 212X (XBT1800AU), search all our OEM Parts or call at (503) 669-2000

www.yamahasportsplaza.com

I wish. But I don’t think so.
My understanding is you would need to swap the entire assembly with buckets and linkages.

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[Scottie]

I wish. But I don’t think so.
My understanding is you would need to swap the entire assembly with buckets and linkages.

I haven't looked into it, but if JBP can put out a universal TVW that fits 2019 models also, then I assume the attachment points at nozzle, bucket, and steering linkage are largely the same as they have been. But like I said, I haven't checked.

 

[swatski]

I know you always say this but I did not find this to be true at all. The thrusters don't grab any of the reverse stream when steering is straight. An argument could be made I suppose that the device physically clips a small top part of the reverse jet stream just as a fact of where it is mounted but the amount it blocks when looking at it visually would seem to be negligible and in reality I did not find any difference in straight reverse power. Its a tough thing to prove though and a bit subjective. Does the awesomeness of how it works in maneuvering the boat bias me?... ok perhaps - in the end I don't mind agreeing to disagree on this.

Edit: I'll just add that I do believe that the CJS fang setup you have does actually increase straight reverse thrust because of how it focuses it. That makes sense to me.

I’ll take your word for sure.
(with the caveat that the new design supersedes the LTs anyway)

I almost went down that road before I heard about the reverse issue from someone who could not get off of the trailer after the LT install. Again, not my first hand experience.

I did look at those in person and there is no question there is some interference in neutral steering stance (strait) but it may not translate into much of a functional hindrance I guess in most situations.

 

[swatski]

I haven't looked into it, but if JBP can put out a universal TVW that fits 2019 models also, then I assume the attachment points at nozzle, bucket, and steering linkage are largely the same as they have been. But like I said, I haven't checked.

The new reverse buckets are different, the pre 2019 fins from JBP or cobra don’t fit the new pump. Im pretty sure.

The TVWs are universal in a sense they make your jet boating experience universally better.


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[Beachbummer]

@swatski I can tell you with confidence as a current owner of the LTEs that the control gained is IMPRESSIVE, and reverse is still weak, as it was before. Just add more power for more reverse. I would recommend the gained reserve control with no hesitation whatsoever. They are that good. I'm very surprised at the perception of the poorer reverse, but I find hard to attribute a stuck boat to a poor reverse as our reverse is so poor to begin with, I'm sure I could push a boat off the trailer by hand way faster than more effectively than my boats reverse ever could, before or after LTEs. Is there a chance these events are casually associated? (Boat stuck, low tide, after LTEs? Just wondering.) Silicone on those bunks and the boat will fly off the trailer...maybe the reverse happened (see that pun there???)

I'm a humble owner with experience with this product trying to stir conversation, no judgement intended or implied.

 

[jcyamaharider]

@swatski I can tell you with confidence as a current owner of the LTEs that the control gained is IMPRESSIVE, and reverse is still weak, as it was before. Just add more power for more reverse. I would recommend the gained reserve control with no hesitation whatsoever. They are that good. I'm very surprised at the perception of the poorer reverse, but I find hard to attribute a stuck boat to a poor reverse as our reverse is so poor to begin with, I'm sure I could push a boat off the trailer by hand way faster than more effectively than my boats reverse ever could, before or after LTEs. Is there a chance these events are casually associated? (Boat stuck, low tide, after LTEs? Just wondering.) Silicone on those bunks and the boat will fly off the trailer...maybe the reverse happened (see that pun there???)

I'm a humble owner with experience with this product trying to stir conversation, no judgement intended or implied.

One key difference between your boat and the new ones, we are limited in our reverse RPM.

 

[tabbibus]

One key difference between your boat and the new ones, we are limited in our reverse RPM.

Doesn't the manual explain a way to override the limiter? Something to do with the nowake button when in reverse.

 

[jcyamaharider]

Doesn't the manual explain a way to override the limiter? Something to do with the nowake button when in reverse.

It does, and it isn't hard to do but say you needed more throttle all of the sudden you wouldn't really think to hit full reverse and then hit the no wake button up quickly. Coming from a 230 myself, I miss that capability.

 

[Beachbummer]

Yeah, that's not super intuitive. If it's any consolation it doesn't do a whole lot at higher RPMs.

 

[swatski]

Doesn't the manual explain a way to override the limiter? Something to do with the nowake button when in reverse.

I don’t have that in the non-E which are completely limited at speed. But even at complete stop the post 2015 are limited to about 4,000 in reverse. It is pretty miserable reverse.
Still better than inboards, but the old yammies could throw a sub move. No way to come even close in the new MYs.

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[MidnightRider]

Yeah, that's not super intuitive. If it's any consolation it doesn't do a whole lot at higher RPMs.

That's not true - it makes a whole LOT of cavitation noise!

 

[MidnightRider]

I don’t have that in the non-E which are completely limited at speed. But even at complete stop the post 2015 are limited to about 4,000 in reverse. It is pretty miserable reverse.
Still better than inboards, but the old yammies could throw a sub move. No way to come even close in the new MYs.

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You sure you don't have that? I know I do in the 212X which is also non-E. Full reverse hits the 4500rpm limiter, then hit no-wake + button up 3 times to get a max of 6000rpm.

 

[biffdotorg]

I can appreciate the opinions of Swatski and Midnight, as you obviously hold no loyalty to any one vendor, love the products that performed and pull no punches when they do not, or the vendor over claims the benefit.

That being said, I will share my experience last year with the LT's. As once I installed them, the benefit strongly outweighed the loss in reverse thrust. We had a very low water situation on our lake, and I did need to punch up the thrust to get our boat off the lift.

There was noticeable difference in the amount of thrust on our 2011 242, but not to the point of not allowing us to pull off the lift. As mentioned, when the nozzles were straight, the loss would not have kept us on a trailer or our lift. Also note, our vintage boat may not have a limiter in reverse like the newer boats. So our experience may not reflect the experience of the newer boats.

So all that said, I think it's fair for all of us to hold on the blanket statements like, "once I heard how much they limited my reverse thrust" etc. that it may not be constructive to the conversation. But again, I appreciate the opinions of the least biased members of this group. Even though some statements sound totally biased, it comes from experience, and it is not a total vendor bias. They are just strong conviction towards what works.

(believe me Swatski, I was trying to cut back on the number of flames that may have been coming your way, smile) Now as far as these new claims of poor business ethics etc. I'm bummed to hear it of any vendor. As a customer, I am excited about the competition it brings up. Especially since most of us would love systems like this, but have no desire to drop over 4 digits for a system to do it.

 

[MidnightRider]

I can appreciate the opinions of Swatski and Midnight, as you obviously hold no loyalty to any one vendor, love the products that performed and pull no punches when they do not, or the vendor over claims the benefit.

That being said, I will share my experience last year with the LT's. As once I installed them, the benefit strongly outweighed the loss in reverse thrust. We had a very low water situation on our lake, and I did need to punch up the thrust to get our boat off the lift.

There was noticeable difference in the amount of thrust on our 2011 242, but not to the point of not allowing us to pull off the lift. As mentioned, when the nozzles were straight, the loss would not have kept us on a trailer or our lift. Also note, our vintage boat may not have a limiter in reverse like the newer boats. So our experience may not reflect the experience of the newer boats.

So all that said, I think it's fair for all of us to hold on the blanket statements like, "once I heard how much they limited my reverse thrust" etc. that it may not be constructive to the conversation. But again, I appreciate the opinions of the least biased members of this group. Even though some statements sound totally biased, it comes from experience, and it is not a total vendor bias. They are just strong conviction towards what works.

(believe me Swatski, I was trying to cut back on the number of flames that may have been coming your way, smile) Now as far as these new claims of poor business ethics etc. I'm bummed to hear it of any vendor. As a customer, I am excited about the competition it brings up. Especially since most of us would love systems like this, but have no desire to drop over 4 digits for a system to do it.

This is fair. Your experience is very different then mine but so is your use case. I'll concede to the fact that just because I have not noticed any difference in straight reverse power doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't exist. As much as I love the LTs I still would advise a boater to do their own research as to whether it is a good fit for them. Its good for people to have all the facts before they decide on a purchase which is why I appreciate all the diverse perspectives on a forum such as this.

 

[biffdotorg]

And since we are at normal water depths this season, I have no noticeable loss. So there are so many variables to consider. If I had installed them this spring, I would have said there is no loss at all. It was an extreme situation. We are lucky to be able to have such a large sample of users on here to compare all these offerings from these vendors.

When I read the posts on the multiple Yamaha boat forums on facebook, I giggle to myself, "have you not read the whole story on jetboaters.net" What a newb!! HA! We take quick answers and opinions for granted.

 

[Bluewater272]

As I was reading this thread, I was starting to get irked by the level of irrational JBP hate until I got to this post.

That certainly seems to be the case, and there's plenty to back it up.

@JetBoatPilot and his business partner approached us to try to get us to sell through their website. We didn't see a lot of upside to that, and a fair amount of downside, so we declined his offer. Later, his business partner approached us again, offering to promote Ridesteady in one of their YouTube videos in exchange for a Ridesteady unit. This was in Feburary, 2018.

We sent the unit right away to them, but that video they promised...never came. Not even a year later. They proceeded to use Ridesteady on their boat to test their TVW product, make videos, etc. After follow up emails went unanswered, I called JBP and he called me back, saying something to the effect that he couldn't release any videos unless we agreed to sell our Ridesteady product through them. After declining his "offer" the second time was when he threatened making his own speed control, getting Perfectpass to compete, etc.

We've had several customers who've told us that @JetBoatPilot was saying how great our system was compared to Perfectpass, before we declined his sales offer the second time. Suddenly our competition is now claimed to be the best.

Furthermore, you can plainly see Ridesteady being used in his recent TVW test video on facebook. I wonder if any product testing at all has been done by the company claiming our competition is technically superior. What is he basing this on?

I don't know @JetBoatPilot personally. But based off our experience, I would be quite leery of any claims he puts forward.

Holy crap. I really loathe the intervendor drama on here (that at least now was limited to two people), but I think the forum is owed the other side of this story. If true, this is egregious.

 

[swatski]

As I was reading this thread, I was starting to get irked by the level of irrational JBP hate until I got to this post.



Holy crap. I really loathe the intervendor drama on here (that at least now was limited to two people), but I think the forum is owed the other side of this story. If true, this is egregious.

Well, yes.

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[Scottie]

Definitely not something I like to hear. I am in business for myself. Actions like these will only cost you revenue in the long run.

With that said, I too am interested in the other side of the story. He's been tagged here, so he'll either reply or not. Personally, I will take extended silence as admission. He obviously monitors these forums, as he should, so he's already aware of this thread, or will be soon. No logical reason to ignore it unfortunately, at this point.

My biggest issue with what we've been told so far is the continued use of the RideSteady product. Business deals come and go, and some fall through for whatever reason. When that happens, you may have to make a deal somewhere else. Fine. Probably could've been more professional about it, but I don't get too worked up over that stuff. Everyone's ideas on courtesy are different. The problem is the Ridesteady product not being shipped back or paid for. Its in very obvious use in those videos, and it is absolutely essential in making that wave look the way it looks. There is a percentage of TVW sales that could be directly attributed to the use of RideSteady in those videos, and there will no doubt be people who buy the TVW, and don't understand that the reason their wave doesn't look like the videos is because they don't have RideSteady. That particular issue is way over the line.

I have JBP products and the RideSteady in my boat. I've experienced nothing but EXCEPTIONAL customer service from both entities, and the products I have purchased perform flawlessly.

In my short time running my own business, I have learned that you need to be careful who you piss off. Sometimes it doesn't matter... Sometimes it does.