New PerfectPass product??

[the MfM]

^^^
Makes sense... but the original Facebook post says the new Yamaha specific version will work on all Yamaha boats?


@JetBoatPilot

 

[Ancient canoe]

Ridesteady is something I was looking into for the future, so I welcome some competition. I don't know the history with JBP and I can understand being sour if you've been wronged by him, but it seems the majority of the board praises his customer service, and since I'm a customer that's what's important to me. I don't care if it's not his idea. If your product isn't protected, someone taking that product and rebranding and selling it is pretty much the basis of free enterprise. I don't find anything shady about that. Either the market is big enough to support both, or whomever does it better wins.

1400 vs 1200. My early take is that the knob and RPM synching are easily well worth the extra $200 assuming the PP version doesn't have RPM functionality. I'm interested in seeing what the PP system offers.

 

[J-RAD]

Ridesteady is something I was looking into for the future, so I welcome some competition. I don't know the history with JBP and I can understand being sour if you've been wronged by him, but it seems the majority of the board praises his customer service, and since I'm a customer that's what's important to me. I don't care if it's not his idea. If your product isn't protected, someone taking that product and rebranding and selling it is pretty much the basis of free enterprise. I don't find anything shady about that. Either the market is big enough to support both, or whomever does it better wins.

1400 vs 1200. My early take is that the knob and RPM synching are easily well worth the extra $200 assuming the PP version doesn't have RPM functionality. I'm interested in seeing what the PP system offers.

I agree except with the deal of how JBP went about acquiring the Ridesteady system for free and not promoting as promised... followed by threats. The customer service is something praiseworthy, but the business practices seem unethical... and despite the multiple call outs the accusations posed by the other party have gone unanswered.

 

[Scottie]

Ridesteady is something I was looking into for the future, so I welcome some competition. I don't know the history with JBP and I can understand being sour if you've been wronged by him, but it seems the majority of the board praises his customer service, and since I'm a customer that's what's important to me. I don't care if it's not his idea. If your product isn't protected, someone taking that product and rebranding and selling it is pretty much the basis of free enterprise. I don't find anything shady about that. Either the market is big enough to support both, or whomever does it better wins.

1400 vs 1200. My early take is that the knob and RPM synching are easily well worth the extra $200 assuming the PP version doesn't have RPM functionality. I'm interested in seeing what the PP system offers.

So someone uses your product to promote sales of another one of their products, never compensates you for it in any way, despite an agreement to do so, and THEN copies your idea and begins selling it themselves? You don't "see anything shady about that"? It may not be illegal, but is most certainly unethical. You are not required to care about anyone's character, but I would hope that most people do. I do.

 

[Ancient canoe]

I agree except with the deal of how JBP went about acquiring the Ridesteady system for free and not promoting as promised... followed by threats. The customer service is something praiseworthy, but the business practices seem unethical... and despite the multiple call outs the accusations posed by the other party have gone unanswered.

That's fair, but that just doesn't phase me as a consumer in a free market. JBP got a free unit and used his position as leverage to try to get his ultimate goal which was some sort of licensing agreement to sell RS. That didn't work and RS wrote off the loss of the unit. My guess is RS could have pushed the issue under some sort of breach claim, but their loss of 1 unit wasn't material.

 

[Ancient canoe]

So someone uses your product to promote sales of another one of their products, never compensates you for it in any way, despite an agreement to do so, and THEN copies your idea and begins selling it themselves? You don't "see anything shady about that"? It may not be illegal, but is most certainly unethical. You are not required to care about anyone's character, but I would hope that most people do. I do.

Breaching a contract isn't always shady IMO. It can be, but sometimes it's business. The law has avenues to rectify the injured parties assuming the elements were there to make it a valid agreement. That likely wasn't worth pursing because the loss was only 1 unit. If it's immaterial for one company to pursue their loss I'm not going to get worked up over failed business dealings.

As far as JBP's character is concerned this incident can certainly be a knock on it. It's not a never do business with him again knock, but maybe it is to others. Using this incident as information on where to send my purchase dollars is tricky because as a consumer I rarely know the personal character of the people I buy from.

 

[the MfM]

With no intent to stir the pot....

Those boats with a cable driven air intake like mine (08 SX230) cannot drive by wire without additional hardware. I'd love to be proven wrong, but reality is that for the boat to change speed a physical thing will need to move the throttle plate, or bypass it. I just don't see how that can be done without a Servo. No computer alone can do this without growing robot fingers to push the throttle plate open to go faster, or some less Sci-Fi way of accomplishing this.

Expecting something else is dreaming.

Again, as always, will be happy to be proven wrong.

Nano bots?

@JetBoatPilot

 

[Mainah]

I do not wish to contribute to the vendor drama here. I will stick to facts as I know them. Ridesteady was the first one to develop a consumer speed control that works with the yamaha aps. The aps is just a 5v ref potentiometer. Attenuating a 5v signal to achieve a desired result is not new. I considered it myself after my diy gps speed control failure (using nmea and the cruise up/down) and determined the custom wiring and coding work just was not worth it for me. The implementation of Ridesteady is certainly or I guess was unique on yamaha boats and certainly innovative. I have a great deal of respect for how slick and well it works (much better resolution with direct voltage attenuation). The rotary encoder as already mentioned is super awesome for the ui and better than 2 different brands of 2019 flagship surf tow boats I was on last week. The rpm sync which was offered as an upgrade is not only awesome but shows continued support and r&d.

As for the new competitive offering it is hard to say what it will and won’t do without a manual and folks trying it. If someone choose not to patent something then of course legally it can be copied. Innovation and competition is good for the consumer. The innovation if any is not yet known. The ethics of what appears to have transpired behind the scenes in a relatively small marketplace is not something I wish to debate here even though I have strong opinions on the matter.

Ridesteady has treated me and I assume all customers well. JBP has also treated me and I assume all customers well. With this particular product I have a greater respect for one over the other given the innovation and work that went into the distinct application to produce the outcome. If apples to apples on features and service I prefer to award the innovator. If one has a material advantage over the other for my use case than that is where I go as a consumer.

For anyone on the fence the ridesteady system I have is worth every penny. Wether for surfing at exactly 10.5 mph with 2k lbs of ballast or wakeboarding at 19.8 fully ballasted it works great. A quick note in that .1 mph can make a difference in the wake or surf wave. I recommend adjusting speed to get the best wave for what you are trying to do and something I just learned from some pros. I had been wakeboarding at 22mph to get the most speed for wake to wake jumps. Just under 20mph makes a better wake on my boat fully ballasted to get more pop using proper form. Wind, lake, and load conditions may impact this. Rope length down to the inch can also matter.

 

[dnicholas47]

That's fair, but that just doesn't phase me as a consumer in a free market. JBP got a free unit and used his position as leverage to try to get his ultimate goal which was some sort of licensing agreement to sell RS. That didn't work and RS wrote off the loss of the unit. My guess is RS could have pushed the issue under some sort of breach claim, but their loss of 1 unit wasn't material.

I normally stay out of this stuff because the boating side of life is supposed to be fun, and I have enough B.S. in my day job, yet here I go. I agree competition is a good thing, but this feels more like the other team filming your practice to know your plays. Yes you practice in the open and it’s a free country, but it isn’t fair competition. Until we get both sides of the story we can’t really make a judgment one way or the other, but on its face this isn’t a great look for JBP.

 

[suke]

So still won't work for our boats without APS. Dammit! Guess my only option is the original PP. Guess that goes to the bottom of my purchase list now. Welp upside is I won't have to be spending more money anytime soon.

 

[AlphaKap]

We (the forum moderators) have done our best to keep the drama on the forum to a minimum. We only intervene when things get personal or go on too heatedly for too long. Our goal has been to keep the site censorship free and "self moderated", but on a couple of occasions we've stepped in to bring things to a close. This is the single biggest reason we created this forum....we were tired of behind the scenes censorship and banning that was going on without anyone knowing (I linked to my original post on this subject).

Please reach out to one of the moderators if you feel we are not meeting your expectations. Our goal is to facilitate a forum where all boaters can share their experiences/knowledge etc about our favorite pastime!

It is difficult to see who is pushing an agenda and who has a real opinion. Would be nice if the vendors have tags indicating such. There may be some members that are compensated by vendors as well.

Also, not for this thread, but vendors should start using their forum area to post about their products. Is everything really 'General Discussion'? If someone has a complaint or something good about a vendor, put it there also.

 

[Beachbummer]

...There may be some members that are compensated by vendors as well...

I'd certainly hope not! Without disclosure, that would be a huge breach of trust, in my opinion.

 

[MidnightRider]

but vendors should start using their forum area to post about their products. Is everything really 'General Discussion'? If someone has a complaint or something good about a vendor, put it there also.

Yeah but what happens most of the time is vendors are pulled into other threads to answer questions or contribute and/or correct information in regards to their product. So it makes sense for vendor specific posts but I think most of the time it isn't that cut and dry.

Edit: I'll add that I'd hate to put that hard fast restriction in place because in most cases its extremely helpful to have their input in line to a discussion for convenience and for later "in context" reference. Not convinced that this is a huge issue. All in all the vendor drama is handled pretty well and most say their piece and move on - we are back to constructive talk pretty quickly in the larger picture of what goes on around here.

 

[Ancient canoe]

I normally stay out of this stuff because the boating side of life is supposed to be fun, and I have enough B.S. in my day job, yet here I go. I agree competition is a good thing, but this feels more like the other team filming your practice to know your plays. Yes you practice in the open and it’s a free country, but it isn’t fair competition. Until we get both sides of the story we can’t really make a judgment one way or the other, but on its face this isn’t a great look for JBP.

Filming practices to gain an advantage would be governed by the league rules. If whatever league deems it as okay, it would be fair game and completely above board. If not, it would be a big no no. The governing body of our economic system has already deemed rebranding unprotected products okay. It's kind of the point of capitalism. If someone can do it better/cheaper/faster, they should try because that's better for the market.

 

[Ridesteady]

Yeah but what happens most of the time is vendors are pulled into other threads to answer questions or contribute and/or correct information in regards to their product. So it makes sense for vendor specific posts but I think most of the time it isn't that cut and dry.

Edit: I'll add that I'd hate to put that hard fast restriction in place because in most cases its extremely helpful to have their input in line to a discussion for convenience and for later "in context" reference. Not convinced that this is a huge issue. All in all the vendor drama is handled pretty well and most say their piece and move on - we are back to constructive talk pretty quickly in the larger picture of what goes on around here.

As a vendor, I'll say this. I dare not make claims that I can't back up, as there are a ton of highly intelligent people on this board that would undoubtedly call out any BS. In many ways, as long as the temperature doesn't get too hot, I believe this board to be fairly well self-regulating.

 

[Spooling]

So the RideSteady was used on the boat in this video, when this video was shot?

 

[Ridesteady]

So the RideSteady was used on the boat in this video, when this video was shot?

Haha, yes. Hard to see, but as the boat turns you can get a glimpse of it in the driver area. Perhaps this was the promotional video he promised to post, he just got the brand name confused?

 

[dnicholas47]

Filming practices to gain an advantage would be governed by the league rules. If whatever league deems it as okay, it would be fair game and completely above board. If not, it would be a big no no. The governing body of our economic system has already deemed rebranding unprotected products okay. It's kind of the point of capitalism. If someone can do it better/cheaper/faster, they should try because that's better for the market.

I guess I was thinking more in terms of local sports vs the NFL which is more regulated, but I get your point. I also understand it is legal, and Lord knows I have taken advantage of situations like that as a consumer (currently drinking out of a Sam's Club type of Yeti cup as I type this). I guess I am letting emotion cloud things a bit because I have felt like this board is such a great community, and has been so helpful to me over the last couple of years, that I didn't like the appearance of what could be something underhanded, albeit legal, from a member. Like I said, until the other side of the story comes out this is all conjecture anyway.

 

[the MfM]

I'd certainly hope not! Without disclosure, that would be a huge breach of trust, in my opinion.

If anyone wants to send me a gps speed control for free that works with old fashion carbs I’ll say great things about it here. Might even make a video.

 

[J-RAD]

Integrity. That's still a thing people should attempt to abide by. Also something that a person can act with in a business circumstances. I don't think it's wrong to expect. I'll add to that, that a person with integrity who does something wrong will step up and own it. If you do something wrong, own it. If they acquired their Ridesteady equipment acting in deception, that is morally wrong according to the general population. I'm not saying it should completely define a person's reputation... actions can be rectified. I've had positive dealings with JBP, but this situation rubs me wrong.

Integrity.