• Welcome to Jetboaters.net!

    We are delighted you have found your way to the best Jet Boaters Forum on the internet! Please consider Signing Up so that you can enjoy all the features and offers on the forum. We have members with boats from all the major manufacturers including Yamaha, Seadoo, Scarab and Chaparral. We don't email you SPAM, and the site is totally non-commercial. So what's to lose? IT IS FREE!

    Membership allows you to ask questions (no matter how mundane), meet up with other jet boaters, see full images (not just thumbnails), browse the member map and qualifies you for members only discounts offered by vendors who run specials for our members only! (It also gets rid of this banner!)

    free hit counter

New Yamaha owner in Michigan

Michigan jet boat

Well-Known Member
Messages
9
Reaction score
7
Points
62
Location
SE Michigan
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2008
Boat Model
AR
Boat Length
21
Well, I'm wiring the money for the new boat this morning!

It's a new-to-us 2008 Yamaha AR210 in white with the red graphics. I'm down at Reynolds Plantation playing golf so I won't pick it up until later this week, but I'll post pictures then.

We are first time boat owners, and I've been reading everything on this site and very much appreciating all the opinions, advice and information. I'm also an amateur pilot, and there is an owners forum much like this one that I have read avidly for years. Quality owners forums are invaluable.

I do have one question. The AR210 was beached a fair amount, and the gel coat on the keel needs to be repaired. The dealer that did the pre-purchase inspection quoted $540 for the repair (Wonderland Marine West). Any feedback on whether that is the best option for quality (most important) and price (secondary consideration)?
 

Andy S

Jetboaters Admiral
Messages
2,843
Reaction score
3,302
Points
332
Location
Chapin, SC 29036
Boat Make
Cobalt
Year
2016
Boat Model
Other
Boat Length
25
Welcome aboard!

Installing a Keel Guard, https://www.keelguard.com/keelguard.html, might be sufficient to cover the damaged areas. To me it all depends on how much wear is actually on the keel, if it is severe then I would have the gelcoat repaired but if it was more cosmetic then I would install a keel guard.
 

Julian

Jetboaters Fleet Admiral 2*
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
18,381
Reaction score
20,503
Points
1,082
Location
Raleigh, NC 27614
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2016
Boat Model
242X E-Series
Boat Length
24
What Andy said.....if the damage is isolated to only the centerline of the keel, then you could do a rough repair yourself and cover it with a keel guard (especially if you plan to continue beaching the boat). See the FAQ misc tips #12 for keelguard/keelshield install information.
 

Julian

Jetboaters Fleet Admiral 2*
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
18,381
Reaction score
20,503
Points
1,082
Location
Raleigh, NC 27614
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2016
Boat Model
242X E-Series
Boat Length
24

txav8r

Jetboaters Admiral
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
6,590
Reaction score
3,275
Points
422
Location
Lake Ray Roberts, Texas
Boat Make
Boatless
Year
NA
Boat Model
Other
Boat Length
NA
Welcome aboard and congrats on the boat! I am of another opinion on repair. Having seen some issues in the past on temporary repairs, I tend to believe fixing it right is important, regardless if you cover it with a keel guard or not. The compounds in epoxy are different than the fiberglass resins that make up fiberglass as well as the gelcoat surface. Most nicks and gouges we get, especially from beaching, tend to knock off the gelcoat down to the fiberglass. So those MUST be repaired, because fiberglass is not waterproof, it is the gelcoat over it that makes it so. And agreed, marinetex or another suitable epoxy based material will fix and waterproof the area, it just is a different material. And my thinking is this, say 3 to 5 years down the road, the keel guard you place over the non gelcoat repair is damaged, and has to be replaced...and it could pull the non gelcoat repair off at that time. Dissimilar materials can lose their bond in time. This is not to say that small nicks can't be repaired using epoxy, but larger areas are risky IMO. Now, as to the cost...Doing a large area is not much more expensive time and materials wise than a small area, but pricing varies. I have paid $400-500 for an area no bigger than about 4"x10". Not knowing how big or what the damage consists of, I am guessing the price is fair for a dealer. You may find it cheaper, but the dealer can be held to perfection. If done right, you won't be able to find the repair after it is done. And on a older boat, they can't just use the stock gelcoat color, it will have to be altered to fit a more faded boat. Congrats again on the boat and glad to have you aboard!
 

Michigan jet boat

Well-Known Member
Messages
9
Reaction score
7
Points
62
Location
SE Michigan
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2008
Boat Model
AR
Boat Length
21
The dealer says it's down to the fiberglass. I plan on having the gelcoat repaired and see what our usage is in respect to beaching. If we find that we want to beach it I'll put the keel guard on.
 

txav8r

Jetboaters Admiral
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
6,590
Reaction score
3,275
Points
422
Location
Lake Ray Roberts, Texas
Boat Make
Boatless
Year
NA
Boat Model
Other
Boat Length
NA
I don't know if it is a majority, but many Yamaha owners don't beach. I know Yamaha makes most models with the bow ladder, but with such a great swim deck, many owners put the bow deep and anchor out, stern to the beach floating in knee deep water with a shore line. I use a box anchor off the bow in deeper water, and then use my shore spike with a line to hold me to the beach. Works well until the winds get strong from the side. But we never beach the boat because it will at a minimum, scratch it up. Even with a keel guard, in time, you will get scratching off to the sides of it. But the main reason you don't want to beach a jet boat is because you can't power off the beach, without sandblasting or pitting your impellers, not to mention getting dirt/sand/debris in the engine intake screen and can plug up the water passages in the engine.
 

OperationROL

Jetboaters Admiral
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
1,903
Reaction score
1,969
Points
307
Location
Knoxville, TN
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2015
Boat Model
Limited S
Boat Length
24
Congrats on the boat. I believe some pics of the bottom would help us to help you.
 

Michigan jet boat

Well-Known Member
Messages
9
Reaction score
7
Points
62
Location
SE Michigan
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2008
Boat Model
AR
Boat Length
21
Absolutely, will do. I was too excited to wait until Thursday or Friday, though! :happy:
 

Glassman

Jetboaters Admiral
Messages
2,238
Reaction score
1,943
Points
267
Location
Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A.
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2004
Boat Model
AR
Boat Length
23
Welcome aboard and congrats on the boat! I am of another opinion on repair. Having seen some issues in the past on temporary repairs, I tend to believe fixing it right is important, regardless if you cover it with a keel guard or not. The compounds in epoxy are different than the fiberglass resins that make up fiberglass as well as the gelcoat surface. Most nicks and gouges we get, especially from beaching, tend to knock off the gelcoat down to the fiberglass. So those MUST be repaired, because fiberglass is not waterproof, it is the gelcoat over it that makes it so. And agreed, marinetex or another suitable epoxy based material will fix and waterproof the area, it just is a different material. And my thinking is this, say 3 to 5 years down the road, the keel guard you place over the non gelcoat repair is damaged, and has to be replaced...and it could pull the non gelcoat repair off at that time. Dissimilar materials can lose their bond in time. This is not to say that small nicks can't be repaired using epoxy, but larger areas are risky IMO. Now, as to the cost...Doing a large area is not much more expensive time and materials wise than a small area, but pricing varies. I have paid $400-500 for an area no bigger than about 4"x10". Not knowing how big or what the damage consists of, I am guessing the price is fair for a dealer. You may find it cheaper, but the dealer can be held to perfection. If done right, you won't be able to find the repair after it is done. And on a older boat, they can't just use the stock gelcoat color, it will have to be altered to fit a more faded boat. Congrats again on the boat and glad to have you aboard!
Hi Mel, while I tend to agree with most everything you post - and I'm typically envious of all your mods and upgrades, here's an area where I will waiver just a lil' since I'm a bit on the thrifty (read - cheap) side. I personally agree that an area that is finished with gel coat is best repaired to match, but I make an exception for the keel on these boats. The thickness of the factory gel coat on the hull is not overly generous, nor should it really be so since too thick of a gel coat layer can be just as troublesome as too thin. The wear caused by beaching the boat is no different than the wear that would occur if I were to apply a sander to the keel (excepting rock strikes of course).

Post mold gel coat application is a real pain in the ass to get it right, both from the standpoint of achieving a good bond and a cosmetic finish. Since the boat bottom / keel is rarely closely examined, the cosmetic concerns take a back seat to the physical bonding aspect of this type of repair. The gel coat layer is very thin in comparison to the actual hull structure. It has no structural purpose other than to help protect the substrate and give it a nice clean finish. The gel coat once cured is hard and fairly brittle in and of itself. If the thin gel coat layer is not properly applied and good adherence is not achieved, you'll face the same concerns down the road if the KeelGuard needs to be removed - it would probably pull a less than stellar gel coat repair right off the hull with it.

The hull is typically vinylester resin/glass, not the typical polyester resin you'll find in hardware stores and alike. The fiberglass is basically inert and achieves it's strength and water tightness from the impregnation with the vinylester resin. It is most certainly water-proof if mixed and cured correctly. If the surface is abraded or otherwise violated than it may be possible for water to permeate the structure over time if left to sit in water, but a properly laminated fiberglass vessel is waterproof. Just like fiberglass fuel storage tanks they install at gas stations - no gel coat is used in the construction of those tanks.

If damage is above the waterline and visible then it should be repaired properly and finished with gel coat OR if it's directly in line with or on the keel it can be covered with a product such as KeelGuard as long as the damage is repaired properly - no gel coat is absolutely required, epoxy or another suitable filler can be used.

Marine-Tex, West Systems Epoxy, Marine Blister Repair Filler, etc. are all suitable repair materials and have been used for a long time to repair damaged boat bottoms. If you apply the KeelGuard with 5200 then the repair should be bullet proof. And you'd be hard pressed to remove the guard once the 5200 is cured. Many manufacturers use 5200 as the bonding agent between deck and hull - it's that strong.

If the damage is outside the area that the guard would cover then, yes, repair it and finish with gel coat. After all, you want it to look good. If the guard would cover all the damage, fill it, fair it, and cover it with the guard using 5200 as your adhesive/sealant.

That's how I would do it. :cool:
 

txav8r

Jetboaters Admiral
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
6,590
Reaction score
3,275
Points
422
Location
Lake Ray Roberts, Texas
Boat Make
Boatless
Year
NA
Boat Model
Other
Boat Length
NA
I will bow to all of that, and good advice. Maybe what I should have said instead of fiberglass not being waterproof, is that the matting in the layup I have seen from my own dings, has cloth exposed, so that would certainly wick to a certain degree wouldn't it @Glassman ? Secondly, if a below waterline gouge is left unattended, or is not completely or correctly repaired, it can delaminate can't it? Beyond that, I am not the fiberglass/gelcoat expert and I recognize that you are, but I want the boat to look as good on the trailer as it does in the water, so my expectation of "looks" might be different than yours. I have filled my own small and out of the way dings with marinetex and will in the future, but I don't think I would like doing that on a larger area. But again, your wisdom on this may change my thinking, because I just assumed that repair with dissimilar materials would not be as capable as would a gelcoat repair, even under a keel guard. It also is a question of if you intend to do this repair yourself or hire an expert, isn't it? I mean if you took a boat into the shop, you wouldn't do a marinetex repair on a foot long area of damage would you? If you would, you really are changing the way I would look at it!
 

Glassman

Jetboaters Admiral
Messages
2,238
Reaction score
1,943
Points
267
Location
Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A.
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2004
Boat Model
AR
Boat Length
23
I will bow to all of that, and good advice. Maybe what I should have said instead of fiberglass not being waterproof, is that the matting in the layup I have seen from my own dings, has cloth exposed, so that would certainly wick to a certain degree wouldn't it @Glassman ? Secondly, if a below waterline gouge is left unattended, or is not completely or correctly repaired, it can delaminate can't it? Beyond that, I am not the fiberglass/gelcoat expert and I recognize that you are, but I want the boat to look as good on the trailer as it does in the water, so my expectation of "looks" might be different than yours. I have filled my own small and out of the way dings with marinetex and will in the future, but I don't think I would like doing that on a larger area. But again, your wisdom on this may change my thinking, because I just assumed that repair with dissimilar materials would not be as capable as would a gelcoat repair, even under a keel guard. It also is a question of if you intend to do this repair yourself or hire an expert, isn't it? I mean if you took a boat into the shop, you wouldn't do a marinetex repair on a foot long area of damage would you? If you would, you really are changing the way I would look at it!
OK, I'll try and tackle these as you wrote them...

Fiberglass, as I mentioned, is inert. It isn't waterproof per se, it's glass fibers that can be made into a cloth-like fabric (many different weaves, thicknesses, directions, etc.), roving (think rope or strands) chopped strands...on and on. This is basically the material that adds structure/strength when it is wetted out with the resin and allowed to cure. The resin will envelope the glass fibers and form a skin when it hardens. If the resin barrier is abraded, scratched, gouged, or otherwise pierced it may allow water to enter in that area. If there are multiple layers - when water penetrates it will wick and have a tendency to travel and that's where your "delamination" begins. Blisters form and the substrate swells. If left unrepaired it will only get worse. If caught immediately it will usually be localized and easier to repair.

My expectations of "looks" are probably identical to yours. As I mentioned, I always prefer to repair gel coat with gel coat where it is visible. If the damage is one inch outside the coverage area of the KeelGuard I would repair that with gel coat.
If the damage is all inside the coverage area of a guard I wouldn't go to the extent of making a perfect gel coat repair - polishing it out to look like new, if I'm only going to cover it with a guard.
Too much work for not much in return in my book. I'd personally use West System epoxy. (if large, use their micro balloon filler material) Let it cure, sand it smooth and apply the guard with 5200.
It will look no different than a brand new boat with a guard applied. In my opinion the epoxy is superior to the resin used in the construction of these boats. It's fairly costly and that's why you don't find Yamaha using it in their boats.

Marine-Tex is an epoxy for patching small scrapes and gouges. Not the best stuff for a foot long area, not even if you mixed in chopped strand (which I have seen done with mixed results). Think 1 or 2 inches or smaller typically. Maybe a bit bigger if it's right on centerline and not deep enough to affect structural rigidity AND it's going to be covered by a guard using 5200. Then it would work well.

Anyone with any reservations about doing a repair of this type, especially below waterline, should seek out an expert repair shop for advice first.

As to what shops do....I have seen repairs done with resin, chopped strand and newspaper. :eek:

Some are actually very good at painting an entire boat instead of repairing large areas with gel coat. The new two-part paints are amazing. :cool:
 

Michigan jet boat

Well-Known Member
Messages
9
Reaction score
7
Points
62
Location
SE Michigan
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2008
Boat Model
AR
Boat Length
21
image.jpg Picked up the boat yesterday! Very excited! :thumbsup:

I had the gel coat repaired by the dealer for the areas damaged by beaching. I'm going to hold off on a keel guard for now and just anchor off the beach.

I struggled to get the clean out plugs removed before realizing the PO had put a cotter pin in the holes for the EZ locks. After taking those out (they were pretty rusted out, one came out easy, the other took some work) I still couldn't get either plug to budge. Tried the trick with ice and water on top of the plug; the left plug came out pretty easily after a couple of hours of soaking, the right one had to soak for a while longer and required some pretty serious back strain to get it out. It looks like in the right tube the PO put caulk around the top of the metal sleeve where I believe the rubber gasket sits? Any idea why that would be? Might that indicate some problem?

Started installing boat buckles on the trailer and realized the hardware that it comes with is total crap. Had to cut off the bolt on one side after the nut wouldn't go one the rest of the way or come off. Fortunately, the Dremel tool made short work of the bolt. Ordered new hardware from Fastenal and will complete the install later this week.

Already had Cobra fins delivered prior to picking up the boat, so I installed those yesterday. Very easy install as promised. For a noobie jet boat driver like me they should make acclimation to a jet boat a little easier.

Have new Fulton winch on order. Supposedly, it's not available until mid-May.

I was going to order full Seadek, but I can't decide on the right color, so I think I'll wait until the end of the season and reupholster everything and do the full Seadek at the same time.

I welcome suggestions for additional modifications. What is better than spending money on your boat? :)
 

Speedling

Jetboaters Admiral
Messages
5,109
Reaction score
4,306
Points
432
Location
Cedar Lake, IN
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2008
Boat Model
SS
Boat Length
21
Welded bow stop.
Sounds like you could use new ez locks.
As far as caulk or whatever, just clean it all up best you can and replace the plug parts if necessary. Although not cheap, it's something you may want working!!!
Mine are a PITA to get in and out and I really only pull them every few trips out but all winter they sit out and every spring I try to clean everything up nicely.
Tower speakers, amps, etc.
Grill and mount.
Have as much fun as you can!!!!
I know i'm stuck not going out onto the water until August at this point. We are a 3 job family with 3 kids as well, and it all is compounded with my being Chairman at our church. It's all over in August, so I live though your stories and pictures, so GET OUT THERE!
 

Michigan jet boat

Well-Known Member
Messages
9
Reaction score
7
Points
62
Location
SE Michigan
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2008
Boat Model
AR
Boat Length
21
Thanks @Speedling !

The weird thing is the PO had EZ locks (and now I have them) but he put the cotter pins in (maybe for winter storage?).

The welded bow stop sounds like a good idea. There isn't much play in the bow stop now, but when I store the boat at the end of the season I think I'll have the dealer weld the bow stop then (I have no welding skills :hurting:).

The grill also sounds like a great idea. I'm not exactly sure what the best mounting options are, but I can probably find some suggestions here. We aren't huge grillers, but it would be nice to have some hot food instead of just cold sandwiches.

We are booked solid thru May, so we have a new toy and can't get out on the water until June! I feel your pain. August will be here real soon. :winkingthumbsup"
 
Top