Override in Reverse for E-Series

[Kane]

I have noticed the reverse issue also... A different sound when using a lot of throttle in reverse. Not sure what it is. I would like to be able to use full reverse just like full forward when I need it also. Some situations call for it and right now it's not there with this boat! Sucks. That's literally the only negative I have after 3 months with the boat.

Does the sound your referring to seem like it gets high pitched? If so mine does it too and its just cavitation. If you pull the throttle back and fourth it'll will go away.
You'll get used to it....however could agree more with how much reverse sucks compared to Non-E boats.

 

[rmk600]

Ahh ok. I'll pay more attention and blip the throttles in reverse to see if it helps.

 

[Julian]

So, if you loose batteries' power completely in an E-series, and need to jump start your engines with a jump pack (say -- in the middle of the ocean), can you operate the throttles and the buckets (without aux battery power)?

Yup....just flip the batteries into combine mode and you'll be good to go (I know this cuz my wiring issue killed a battery). You may have to shut down the whole boat and put it in combine mode before starting her up as the error was persistent on mine til I did that.

 

[swatski]

Thanks @Julian. But let's consider a scenario where you loose power completely. No juice, either battery. Say charging system failure in the middle of nowhere. With non-E boats, you can start the engines off a jumper pack and then basically run on a magneto.

What concerns me, and maybe I am just confused, I don't think you can run E throttles without battery power? If that is indeed the case, and you have a situation where your batteries become discharged in the middle of somewhere you are "dead in the water" even if you carry a jumper pack.

I hope that is not the case, but I can not so far find strait answers.

With Yamaha's failure to address the already known fault in sensing/monitoring/reporting voltages in dual set ups, which I can confirm, I think that is an issue.

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[seadude]

There's a procedure in the manual for manually "shifting" the gates if the solenoids failed, so Yamaha did have some concerns about that. Once you've managed to jump start a motor, there should be enough voltage for the e-throttles to operate.

 

[Julian]

There's a procedure in the manual for manually "shifting" the gates if the solenoids failed, so Yamaha did have some concerns about that. Once you've managed to jump start a motor, there should be enough voltage for the e-throttles to operate.

Correct....there is a manual over ride of the servo motors. Remove the cover to the servo motors behind the helm on the floor and manually shift from there. But with a totally dead battery, my boat was able to move the servos in combine mode. I suppose someone could test if you killed both batteries if the servos would run of the stators alone...I would assume so.....but if not, go manual.

 

[Julian]

One thing I need to test this year is using Cruise assist + to increase the RPMs in reverse over the limit the computer puts on the throttle handle. Yamaha says it will give you additional rpms over the computer limit.....I just wonder how fast one can increase the RPMs using the Cruise Assist + button....can you hold it down or do you have to press repeatedly? I'm going to test this in the spring.

Would be nice if Yamaha would provide a way to increase the RPM limit, make us say yes to PAGES of disclaimers if we must...but give us the power we want!

 

[swatski]

One thing I need to test this year is using Cruise assist + to increase the RPMs in reverse over the limit the computer puts on the throttle handle. Yamaha says it will give you additional rpms over the computer limit.....I just wonder how fast one can increase the RPMs using the Cruise Assist + button....can you hold it down or do you have to press repeatedly? I'm going to test this in the spring.

Would be nice if Yamaha would provide a way to increase the RPM limit, make us say yes to PAGES of disclaimers if we must...but give us the power we want!

Very cool @Julian! Watching, very interested.
I guess if it works as they say, one would just need to practice the "cruise+" breaking.
The non-E-series boats are also limited from factory, but not as drastically, it seems.

I would LOVE to test drive an E-series to experience fly-by-wire throttles. That is one thing I wish my AR240 had (I think) -- smooth throttles with no "dead ranges" I really dislike. Not to mention speed control /Perfect Pass equivalent w/ramping.

My understanding is that a retro-upgrade of E-throttles is not feasible. Which means... one really needs to upgrade the whole boat, right?
(Kind of kidding. The admiral does not read the forum, so all good. )

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[Kane]

I've tested this first hand and its terrible! Not to mention if your in an emergency situation and you have to remember to hit the + while doing everything else to avoid disaster! It would be perfect if they just program full throttle for reverse like the Non E boats!

 

[Julian]

My understanding is that a retro-upgrade of E-throttles is not feasible. Which means... one really needs to upgrade the whole boat, right?
(Kind of kidding. The admiral does not read the forum, so all good. )

@Mainah looked into what it would take and concluded it would be very expensive and involved. At the very least you'd have to convince Yamaha to provide the SW flash update to Connext....that would be the hard part.

If you will be at Shelbyville I'd be happy to let you drive my boat and try out the e-throttles....they rock!

 

[FloJet]

Very cool @Julian! Watching, very interested.
I guess if it works as they say, one would just need to practice the "cruise+" breaking.
The non-E-series boats are also limited from factory, but not as drastically, it seems.

I would LOVE to test drive an E-series to experience fly-by-wire throttles. That is one thing I wish my AR240 had (I think) -- smooth throttles with no "dead ranges" I really dislike. Not to mention speed control /Perfect Pass equivalent w/ramping.

My understanding is that a retro-upgrade of E-throttles is not feasible. Which means... one really needs to upgrade the whole boat, right?
(Kind of kidding. The admiral does not read the forum, so all good. )

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I am betting on that if you can find a way to reflash or reset the connext to factory to where you get to select the model number. It will give you the perfect pass route on the AR240. I've changed the AR code to a Limited code but connext states I need to reset it for it to take affect. The problem is, it's not just a power off reset. Need to reset the internal memory or cache some how. This is a project I will be looking into more when I finish coaching in February. I need to be friend a service rep at a yamaha dealership so they can tell me exactly how it's done. The manager at the dealership I got my boat from stated to me in a long conversation how he was sent to Yahama headquarters to learn everything about the connext system and how it's integrated with the boats.

I still have to finish up with my underwater LEDs, Interior leds, re powdering the tower, running led wiring to tower speakers, Riva ribbon delete, and off course the last thing before I hit the water is get new sea dek installed in the interior.

I installed my automatic battery top off system last week and I have to say I really like the concept of it. It simplifies maintenance to where it's not a pain anymore at all.

 

[swatski]

re powdering the tower, running led wiring to tower speakers,

How did that go? Was it super awful with a lot snags inside?

Keep us posted on the Connext reprogramming. But I don't think that an upgrade to E-series would be feasible/practical.

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[FloJet]

Well no I never had any wires ran in the tower for my LEDs. Since I am getting tower re coated gray, I thought it will be goo idea to go ahead and run the LED wires for the Rev 410s. So in the summer when I am ready to put the rings on, the wires would already be ran thru the tower. I have a hole in my tower where this stupid shop thought it would be a great idea to run the speaker wires on the outside of the tower rather than drop them inside the tower. I was not a happy camper. Now I got everything fixed up and need to get the hole welded back and re coated to grey which I've been wanting as color. A retired painter who has a shop at his house is giving a heck of a deal on the coating so time to get it done.

I definitely know I cannot do much to it, in terms of what the E-Series offer. But The Limited S has a rider profile in there I believe and I don't see much different in the controls than the AR. Rider profile should not have anything to do with the throttles but rather the software. We already have cruise control so I don't think any extra equipment is needed. Just need to a find way to tell connext system this is the first set up just like a fresh install of windows on a computer. At this point I can put in the Limited S profile and I would be able to see all the extra control buttons on the AR connext screen just like the Limited S. All the boats use the same connext screen but different model codes to give different control options. Now obviously if you don't have something like a fresh water kit, or ballast system, those buttons will not work and probably give an internal connext error. I just want it for the rider profiles more than anything. Plus things like docking light controls will be cool too then I can try to find a connection to the system to tie things like that into connext. Could even install your own fresh water kit and look at other Limited to see it's installed into the system. I learned some of this looking at one of my friend's Limited S out here. It was his boat I got the Limited S profile from. The connext accepts the code, but states you must reset it. That is Yamaha's way of locking everyone out so it can't be changed so easily. But once someone learns to reset, GAME ON!

I am going to experiment in few weeks to see how long it can keep memory with no power source to it. Sometimes if you can drain all the electricity out, it won't be able to hold memory and must reset to the beginning. In theory LOL.

 

[Mainah]

@FloJet - If reset is possible without being attached to a host then it is likely accomplished by depressing and holding one or more physical buttons attached to the main unit. In this case we are talking about the buttons immediately under the screen. It is very likely in this case that the memory is of a perisistant type (similar to an sd card) in which case waiting for the power to drain won't work.

I really hope this works. Please beware that there are obvious risks with trying this like bricking your connext. Doing this will cause system/communication error messages without having the exact same components and wiring as the model you are changing it to with exception of binary power switching in the spu on previously unused pins. Functionality will be limited without having the right components and wiring.

For rider profiles or gps speed control to be engaged and used the e series throttle position signal and bucket servo feedback likely would have to be spoofed over proprietary n2k. Not impossible but you will need an e series boat and a n2k reader just to figure out pgn details and values. Even if you did that would those spoofed values interfer with engine operation? It is my opinion based on parts diagrams and wiring schematics that the ecus also have different programming on the eseries models.

All of that said ... Again I really do hope that this works.

 

[FloJet]

I totally agree. Just knowing the dealers are the one's who wake up the connext and program it, I'm so curious to learn how many error codes you would get with a different model code inputted in there. I've tried many different combinations of pressing all the buttons but none seem to work. I believe there has to be a hard reset switch somewhere or would need a software flash to reset it. I don't think draining the battery will work either but it's the easiest and cheapest thing to try first. Hahaha

 

[Kane]

@Julian or anyone else who's dialed in to Yamaha......any word on any updates to delete the Reverse Override? Maybe someones come up with a work around?
Thanks!

 

[Julian]

I asked them last year and they said it wasnt going to change due to the risk of so easily moving the throttles on an eseries.

 

[Kane]

Shit!!

 

[Julian]

To many attorneys working there!