Simple Audio Upgrade

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

There is zero issue with running amps right next to battery. In fact in case of a very rare issue - it is less wire to burn up - and thus maybe saving your boat. Having them next to the battery also helps reduce voltage loss over the length of the wire.... if anything it's why wouldn't you mount them next to the battery.

 

[FloJet]

@Julian I understand all that. Again everyone does things differently. For an average user with one or two amps by the batteries, that would probably never cause an issue. But why risk that? Fumes are the gasing of the batteries when they are charging. Lead acid batteries gas while under charge. If you went sealed battery route then nothing to worry about most likely. I have 5 amps and I keep my cover on my boat while it's in storage while not in use. Over time if I had the amps by the batteries, the gasing of the batteries could have potential affects on them since it's all enclosed. So I like to keep them far away from that as possibly. Nothing is guarantee but I like safer routes.

In a car audio word, you use the vehicle more often then none. Most of those systems don't have onboard chargers hooked up to them every night. Windows, doors, and other elements help circulate gasing of the batteries. Different concerns in that aspect. Can't compare apples to oranges. Also even if something is marine rated, that's not always the tall tale. To be honest, Marine rated don't mean much to mean since I don't live by the ocean or on the water. Lol. Water or corrosive gases will still damage marine rated equipment. That's why they still say not to mount them by areas water can intrude into. But again everyone is different and there is no right or wrong way. Just always better to take the safer route IMO.

 

[FloJet]

There is zero issue with running amps right next to battery. In fact in case of a very rare issue - it is less wire to burn up - and thus maybe saving your boat. Having them next to the battery also helps reduce voltage loss over the length of the wire.... if anything it's why wouldn't you mount them next to the battery.

Sure that's more logical way to approach. But sometimes the closer you are to the engine, the more noise you can introduce into the system. So just all depends on the setup. There is a reason in the car audio world most amps are not mounted under the hood. I do believe you want to keep the wire runs as shortest as possible tho but it's not always the best way tho. Location matters alot.

 

[FloJet]

I do @bigblank69. I promise you I'm far from a rookie when it comes to stereo systems and electronics. I don't play around with electricity tho. I've learned my lessons the hard way. I even almost burned down my new boat being stupid.

Long story short, a month or so a go a 24' boat caught fire at one of our docks. After speaking with the fire department they stated that the owners forgot to start the blower before they started the boat. The boat had electronics next to the engine compartment. They speculate the fumes plus electricity started that fire. I'm sorry but better safe then sorry. The sad thing that really pissed me off about it all is a little kid got bad burns cause he was sitting next to that place. They also bought the boat off craigs list and did not have everything thoroughly inspected. I don't know about you all but the helm in the 24' Yamaha lines are just much safer then running amps by the batteries. I can't hate on your install decision and will never do that. But if it was up to me spending $50 or more for more wiring to be safer IMO to give me much better piece of mind I'll go that route anydays.

Sure it would probably never happen to anyone here or anyone we know. And I sure pray to God it don't. But I'm sure if anyone has ever loss a home or boat to a fire, they probably thought it would have never happened to them either. SAFETY first my friends.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Sure that's more logical way to approach. But sometimes the closer you are to the engine, the more noise you can introduce into the system. So just all depends on the setup. There is a reason in the car audio world most amps are not mounted under the hood. I do believe you want to keep the wire runs as shortest as possible tho but it's not always the best way tho. Location matters alot.

We don't mount them in the engine bay for two reasons. 1. Water 2. Heat. Maybe three if you include moving parts. An engine bay gets extremely hot and also can get extremely wet. Distance has nothing to do with noise. The longer a run of signal wire, the greater chance of interference, but that interference wouldn't be caused by length. The other primary source of noise is a ground loop. If you go straight to the source on the ground - you virtually eliminate this problem.

I respect your opinion about the fumes. However it is hard for me to buy into the theory, I would need to see proof that this could cause problems to the amplifiers directly. If the leak of hydrogen from a lead battery is bad enough to cause an explosion - the amplifier is truly irreverent at that point. Proper maintenance would prevent any issues there.

 

[FloJet]

We don't mount them in the engine bay for two reasons. 1. Water 2. Heat. Maybe three if you include moving parts. An engine bay gets extremely hot and also can get extremely wet. Distance has nothing to do with noise. The longer a run of signal wire, the greater chance of interference, but that interference wouldn't be caused by length. The other primary source of noise is a ground loop. If you go straight to the source on the ground - you virtually eliminate this problem.

I respect your opinion about the fumes. However it is hard for me to buy into the theory, I would need to see proof that this could cause problems to the amplifiers directly. If the leak of hydrogen from a lead battery is bad enough to cause an explosion - the amplifier is truly irreverent at that point. Proper maintenance would prevent any issues there.

So your telling me gasing of batteries is not corrosive? Ya I'm done with this argument. Sorry but I don't need proof to know the logistics of things. Good luck.

 

[FloJet]

I'm wasn't saying that the batteries fumes are what cause the explosions. I don't speculate. I just know in my setup I have close to 5k watts of amps. Putting them by the batteries is not a good idea however you want to look at it, explosion or corrosion. Sure it wont explode but I promise you over time it will be corroded by the battery gasing from the always charging/maintenance stage. Again a boat is not open area like a car. It stays under a cover under a storage unit. That's not good for any equipment in the long run. Battery gasing will corrode things if not properly ventilated. That's my number reason I say its not a good idea. We can argue all other variables but it's not worth it. I just hope the OP and others know their options before proceeding with any setup.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

So your telling me gasing of batteries is not corrosive? Ya I'm done with this argument. Sorry but I don't need proof to know the logistics of things. Good luck.

Never said it wasn't. I have never seen any evidence that it is corrosive to marine amplifiers.

Also I am not sure about anyone else, but I open up my seats before putting my cover on, and the cover vents. This would never be an issue for me.

 

[bigblank69]

So your equating electronics in the battery compartment to that with engine compartment? Totally different... and there ALREADY electronics in the engine compartment! The ECU for one! You don't vent the engine bay with the blower there is a chance your going to have a fire, your example still has not shown where gas coming off of a battery will wreck a amplifier.

I store my boat with the cover on as well and never had an issue. Same with my previous boat and it's amps. You want to play better safe then sorry that's fine. But I've been working with 12V Audio gear for the last 20 years and never had any issues.

 

[FloJet]

So your equating electronics in the battery compartment to that with engine compartment? Totally different... and there ALREADY electronics in the engine compartment! The ECU for one! You don't vent the engine bay with the blower there is a chance your going to have a fire, your example still has not shown where gas coming off of a battery will wreck a amplifier.

I store my boat with the cover on as well and never had an issue. Same with my previous boat and it's amps. You want to play better safe then sorry that's fine. But I've been working with 12V Audio gear for the last 20 years and never had any issues.

You are miss interpreting what I'm saying. Honestly your 20 years of experience don't mean much to me. Sorry. I can go all damn day debating electronics and batteries but I see it pointless to do so against know it alls. By no means I consider myself an expert in this area. But I will assure you that sulfuric acid which are in batteries and their gassing are very corrosive to any electronics components over time. Sure 99% chance you will probably never experience an kind of explosions by any electronics being located next to the batteries. But Batteries put out hydrogen gas which in high concentrations are highly flamable. I don't need to show you proof how fires or explosions can start but I promise you if there is enough electricity around the area (amps) and high concentration of hydrogen gas, bad things could possibly happen. So for your 20 years of experience you are very blessed for such things not happening to you. But again only a fool would take such risks. So just because you've had great luck/success does not mean that for the average user or someone who only has 1 year experience. So in that sense better safe then sorry. 1 or 2 amps by 1 to 2 batteries probably never an issue. But for the high end users, 4-6 batteries by 4-6 amps is not a wise idea however way you want to argue it.

So I guess all I can say is my proof is sulfuric acid and hydrogen gas is something not to play around with. Sulfuric acid is corrosive to any amplifier regardless it's marine rated or not. No marine amps states that it's resistance to sulfuric acid.

 

[bigblank69]

Yes high concentration of hydrogen gas is highly flammable. And unless anyone here completely makes there battery compartment air tight they will NEVER have a issue in regards to hydrogen gas. Same goes for corrosion from the batteries. Sorry, other than battery connectors I have never seen battery caused corrosion issues, and those instances were rare.

BMW E30's had trunk mounted batteries, which equates to our battery compartment and they never had the issues you describe. I'm sorry your paranoia doesn't equal fact.

You do things how you want, but don't come on here and treat those of us who have experience and treat is like morons and not be able to back up what you say with real world proof of what you say happens actually happened.

 

[FloJet]

Hey man, Don't make me really start schooling you. I think we all proved our point. I'm not coming on here to tell anyone what to do. Sorry you got your damn butt hurt for being ignorant. Like I said I'm done talking to you. You don't know me and I don't know you but you keep pushing I will make you look like a damn fool. Go cry me a damn river man. I'm not that dude you think you can be talking crazy to online and leave it at that. I respected your opinion but you start turning into senseless debate, I would put it full throttle on you man. So ya I think you just need to drop it all MR. 20 years experience.

 

[bigblank69]

Oh no I'm afraid. Your done talking... Yet you keep talking.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Lol now it's getting entertaining. floJet is right - in the worst of worst case scenarios. Like your battery gets corroded to shit and someone fully enclosed it and you didn't touch your boat for 3 years. Even then I still have serious doubts, but whatever. It takes a lot of corrosion and a battery that has gone to shit to get to this point.

Actually thinking of it .. in my time of installing professionally (about half the time of you guys, but I have been trained by guys that helped write the MECP and ABYC guide and tests)- I have never seen a corroded battery inside the car. (BMWs, Jettas, Jeeps, Dodges, Chrysler, etc.) They have always been in the engine compartment. Also it should be noted that there are plenty of cars with batteries that look like a science experiment gone wrong - but it never affects the fuse box right next to it - or the BCM a foot away.

 

[Julian]

But if it was up to me spending $50 or more for more wiring to be safer IMO to give me much better piece of mind I'll go that route anydays.

I spent the money on a Fume Detector, and will have one of those in every boat I own....in my opinion should be a requirement for all boats. If safety is your argument, then its the batteries that should be moved away from the engine/fuel tanks more importantly than the amps should.

As for batteries gasing....I'm sure they do...but the two batteries I had next to my last Amp had no impact on my system. Yamaha built my boat with 2 AMP next to 2 batteries...

So my answer to the OP @Slfmde .... put the Amps in either location....seems we have a difference of opinion on this topic.