Steering is Frozen

[scot71]

Saturday I made a visit to the boat to take some measurements for something I'm working on and while I was inside I attempted to turn the steering wheel and discovered that it would not turn. I had no problems at all with it last summer and in fact I could still move it at the end of December when I put the Thrust Vectors on. We have had a lot of very cold days the last few weeks (in fact it got down to -6 Friday morning) and I'm wondering if it could be possible, that the sheath on the outside of the cable has just contracted so much from the cold that it won't allow the cable to move inside. I looked behind the helm and the steering mechanism moves fine but the cables won't budge. Has anyone encountered this? I'm hoping that with the weather warming up that it will loosen up and start working again and I won't have to replace them just yet. Does my idea seem plausible, or do you think they may be done for?

If they do have to be replaced. Does anyone know the part number for them and an approximate cost?

 

[Seadeals]

If there was any condensation or moisture in them, it sounds like they might jut be frozen. That is very cold.

 

[SCSTWG]

Yeah, I am thinking they are froze with some moisture in the lines.....especially if the temps have been fluctuating drastically. That said, these boats are also known to have some issues with the steering cables. I would wait until the temps get relatively warm and check them again.

 

[txav8r]

What was the temp when you tried to move them and found that they wouldn't move? If it was above freezing and they had time to have thawed, your cables are shot is my guess. Some have extended their life a tad by removing them and letting or forcing penetrating oil into the sheath. This is just a futile effort IMO, and if they are binding, they are done. That said, if they are frozen, they are also done. They shouldn't bind even if it is freezing, and water shouldn't be up inside that cable. So if it letting water that far into the cable to freeze, it is time to change them IMO. You may notice the links below the text box showing similar threads, you can try lubing them but your just putting off the inevitable if they are indeed dragging. They are a sealed cable, with a dry teflon sleeve, and they don't require lubrication, so adding any is actually going to decrease the service life in time as well, IMO. Make sure you don't have something jammed in the jet nozzle that is restricting it from turning, that has happened before!

 

[Julian]

Yeah....wait for it to warm up....if they are still frozen, then source the cables from Teleflex and replace them. I replaced by bucket cables a couple of years ago and was able to buy the Teleflex cable for $40 when the dealer wanted $150!

 

[Julian]

Also, check out this thread on how to replace them:

https://jetboaters.net/threads/replacing-steering-cables.1530/#post-22404

Also #31 in the FAQ

 

[scot71]

What was the temp when you tried to move them and found that they wouldn't move? If it was above freezing and they had time to have thawed, your cables are shot is my guess. Some have extended their life a tad by removing them and letting or forcing penetrating oil into the sheath. This is just a futile effort IMO, and if they are binding, they are done. That said, if they are frozen, they are also done. They shouldn't bind even if it is freezing, and water shouldn't be up inside that cable. So if it letting water that far into the cable to freeze, it is time to change them IMO. You may notice the links below the text box showing similar threads, you can try lubing them but your just putting off the inevitable if they are indeed dragging. They are a sealed cable, with a dry teflon sleeve, and they don't require lubrication, so adding any is actually going to decrease the service life in time as well, IMO. Make sure you don't have something jammed in the jet nozzle that is restricting it from turning, that has happened before!

The temp in the barn was probably in the high 30's low 40's. So it still hadn't even begun to warm up yet. Temps are supposed to be in the 50's all this week so I'll check them out again Friday and see if they're loosening up. I think you might be right though, they might be about done for. I think I'll start looking into new ones to at least have on hand when I need them.

 

[txav8r]

This thread may have appropriate part numbers and other information for you should you need it. Good luck!
https://jetboaters.net/threads/stiff-steering-and-throttles.1968/#post-30495

 

[thcole]

My wife complains about how hard the steering and throttles are to move so I will probably be replacing both this spring.

 

[scot71]

Well, I went to visit the boat today so I could put in my new stereo and what do you know. The steering wheel turned with absolutely no effort. Last week it was frozen solid, but after a week of above freezing temps. I can now turn it with one finger. Go figure.

 

[Murf'n'surf]

Are you sure the nozzle is moving? A snapped cable will have little resistance. Could've been water in the cable jacket freezing it up.

 

[scot71]

Are you sure the nozzle is moving? A snapped cable will have little resistance. Could've been water in the cable jacket freezing it up.

Yeah, everything is moving just fine. I think the water idea could be a legitimate reason but it's hard to say. Up until this week we have had a lot of below zero days over the last few weeks. Extreme cold can cause some crazy problems with things sometimes. I do have new cables scoped out though in case I need to pull the trigger on them.

 

[txav8r]

If water is migrating far enough up the cable to freeze, they are pretty much compromised already. You may get more time, but good to have the cables on hand and at the ready! Glad you don't have to tear it apart today however!

 

[Seadeals]

IMHO they are not specifically shot just because they locked at sub zero. It is like when (aircraft) cable controls in the pedestal have issues freezing up after a long cold soak at altitude. They are never in water; but a small amount of moisture/condensation can really clamp down at such cold temps. Definitely put your cables on the watch list though as many have eventually needed to change them.

 

[RForester]

Should he lube those cables?

 

[4x15mph]

I think the best thing you could do is wait until everything comes up to warmer temperatures. You could have a frozen line or it may be rusted. Once it gets warmer, you can give it another try and see if some oil/lube works. If it continues to be stuck, you could try turning the jet from the rear instead of using the steering wheel from the front.

I am waiting for warm weather before I even start the boat as tempting as it is.

 

[Big Shasta]

I am waiting for warm weather before I even start the boat as tempting as it is.

Good for You....As tempting as it is to just fire it up and let it run a little, it is doing more harm than good by inviting condensation into the warmed oil. It won't get up to temp enough on the hose to burn off moisture in the oil. Just let her sleep till you can go out and rip on it.

Of course, it's ok to fire it up and do an op check before you go out, just don't do it through the winter when it has more sitting to do.

To the OP, get the parts you need and change them when you get a chance. If they are getting water in them, it's just a matter of time before they start getting bound up and you could break one. That would suck being out on the water with no steering.

 

[txav8r]

Aircraft cables do NOT freeze and lock up in freezing conditions. Only the control surfaces themselves can be contaminated and require heated deicing fluids to be used to free them, followed by anti-icing fluids if necessary to give enough time to take off without any accumulation to the aircraft before it is in the air. Cables should not freeze. If they are, the seals are corrupted and water is being allowed to get into them. These are sealed cables ladies and gentlemen, and they do not have lubrication inside them, instead, they are teflon coated and the cables do have a life limit. If fraying or kinking from wear or time cause them to bind, lubrication won't help. If the teflon lining is worn from age/use, lubrication may only buy a short amount of time at best, if any. Plenty of guys have lubed them, swearing that it helped...until they changed the cables. I don't know of anyone that has managed to get continued life from binding cables. Now whether cables are supposed to freeze or not, as @Seadeals mentions, condensation could cause some freezing (in extreme conditions) in our tele flex cables, but it shouldn't. I am in the camp that says use it and see what service you get from them this season. But it is like water pipes...if they freeze, they tend to break. These cables are not resistant to that IMO, and if they freeze, they will swell, and that will just let in more moisture the following season. There comes a point where a bandaid can't stop the pain. But one thing that this teaches me, is that a good practice when you pull the boat from the water, besides revving the engines to blow the water out of the engine and exhaust, is to turn the wheel back and forth to work out any intrusion at the nozzle end of the cables. Disclaimer: just because cables shouldn't freeze and lock up, doesn't mean extreme conditions won't cause unexpected results. And just like in your car, extreme conditions may require some additional care. If you keep fresh grease on your cables and against the cup seal, chances of intrusion are reduced. So more than annual external lubrication may be that additional care. I keep a tube of grease right beside the boat in the barn. I lubricate them probably every 3rd or 4th time I use the boat, because they look dry. I also don't think there is a right or wrong here. I just know that I am not going to remove cables to try to let gravity lube them, nor and I going to try to pressure fill them, I am just going to change them when the time comes, but that is me.

 

[Big Shasta]

Aircraft cables do NOT freeze and lock up in freezing conditions. Only the control surfaces themselves can be contaminated and require heated deicing fluids to be used to free them, followed by anti-icing fluids if necessary to give enough time to take off without any accumulation to the aircraft before it is in the air. Cables should not freeze. If they are, the seals are corrupted and water is being allowed to get into them. These are sealed cables ladies and gentlemen, and they do not have lubrication inside them, instead, they are teflon coated and the cables do have a life limit. If fraying or kinking from wear or time cause them to bind, lubrication won't help. If the teflon lining is worn from age/use, lubrication may only buy a short amount of time at best, if any. Plenty of guys have lubed them, swearing that it helped...until they changed the cables. I don't know of anyone that has managed to get continued life from binding cables. Now whether cables are supposed to freeze or not, as @Seadeals mentions, condensation could cause some freezing (in extreme conditions) in our tele flex cables, but it shouldn't. I am in the camp that says use it and see what service you get from them this season. But it is like water pipes...if they freeze, they tend to break. These cables are not resistant to that IMO, and if they freeze, they will swell, and that will just let in more moisture the following season. There comes a point where a bandaid can't stop the pain. But one thing that this teaches me, is that a good practice when you pull the boat from the water, besides revving the engines to blow the water out of the engine and exhaust, is to turn the wheel back and forth to work out any intrusion at the nozzle end of the cables. Disclaimer: just because cables shouldn't freeze and lock up, doesn't mean extreme conditions won't cause unexpected results. And just like in your car, extreme conditions may require some additional care. If you keep fresh grease on your cables and against the cup seal, chances of intrusion are reduced. So more than annual external lubrication may be that additional care. I keep a tube of grease right beside the boat in the barn. I lubricate them probably every 3rd or 4th time I use the boat, because they look dry. I also don't think there is a right or wrong here. I just know that I am not going to remove cables to try to let gravity lube them, nor and I going to try to pressure fill them, I am just going to change them when the time comes, but that is me.

What are you some kind of pilot or something?

Great advice. Couldn't agree more.

 

[txav8r]

I guess I should add that extreme cold can affect many systems. We often had instruments and gauges that would not function following an overnight in Buffalo or Toronto, if the aircraft had been towed off the gate and no power was left on the aircraft...and had to warm up to get them to work. But there are procedures to follow for that. Best thing about our boats, we have this forum to help develop procedures that work.