Throttle and Reverse Bucket Question

[djtech2k]

I realize that these may be very basic questions, so I will apologize in advance.

I have a question about the throttle. On my 2012 SX210, there seem to be 2 what I would call neutral positions. The more forward one of them does seem to have some thrust in the back because I can see a tiny bit of water disturbance. The position that is more towards reverse, seems to have nothing. The 2 positions a quite a ways apart.

IDK if that makes sense or not, but is this expected? I mean I know there is the no wake mode so IDK if it has anything to do with it or not. Is this normal or is there an adjustment needed?

On another topic that IDK if its related or not, when I installed the cobrajet fins I sent pictures to Jeff to see if it looked right. He mentioned that unrelated to the fins, one of my reverse buckets looked slightly lower than the other. So he suggested I check it in reverse and adjust it if it isn't the same. I have had the boat out 2x this year and low speed steering is much better but there is a little rear end drift still. I also notice that steering in reverse is non-existent so I am considering getting the Fangs from Jeff and installing those. Anyway, my main question is about adjusting the buckets. How hard is that to do and how do I do it? I found some topics on here but most were about doing something electronically.

 

[2kwik4u]

Yeap. Two "detents". First one is Thrust Directional Enhancement, and second is full "forward"

This video explains the first detent, and what/why it does what it does.

Adjusting the buckets is pretty easy. Just have to thread the bucket attachment point in/out on the threaded end of the cable. I think your owners manual has a spec on how to measure where they should be.

 

[djtech2k]

Thanks. I just searched through the owners manual pdf and did not find anything about the bucket adjust or any mention of detents. Still going to look but so far no mention.

 

[djtech2k]

I am seeing a few bucket adjustment videos. They all talk about neutral and the throttle but none mention these detents. Which of those detents should be used when adjusting the throttle? The one close to reverse or the one closer to forward? I saw one video suggested that Yamah says to have the buckets opened to 31mm.

I have no idea what mine are but Jeff pointed out that the right side was not open as far as the left, assuming the throttle was in the same spot on both engines.

 

[2kwik4u]

If I remember right, you want to make the adjustment with the throttle lever in the neutral position. You can get your service manual here

YAMAHA MANUAL STORE

www.yamahapubs.com

Check out this video......at 7:56 it shows the diagram.

 

[djtech2k]

Thanks. I was watching that video also. I did find a pdf of the manual online a while back so that's what I was searching. I did not find any mention of detent and I found lots of mentions of the reverse gate, but no specifics on the adjustment.

 

[djtech2k]

Ok I have a question. When adjusting the reverse bucket/gate should the throttle be in detent 1 or detent 2? I am assuming that detent 1 is closer to reverse and detent 2 is closer to forward.

I still have not found the official measure either. I heard 31mm on a video but IDK if its the same for all boats. Its not in my manual.

 

[Julian]

Ok I have a question. When adjusting the reverse bucket/gate should the throttle be in detent 1 or detent 2? I am assuming that detent 1 is closer to reverse and detent 2 is closer to forward.

I still have not found the official measure either. I heard 31mm on a video but IDK if its the same for all boats. Its not in my manual.

You only really want to adjust the reverse gate to establish a better neutral. So if your boat creeps forwards (or backwards) when in neutral, you want to adjust the neutral position. The reverse position is simply fully covering the nozzle to direct flow under the boat, and the fully forward position is to move the gate out of the way of the jet stream entirely.

So if you have a decent neutral with no creeping....leave it alone. If it is creeping - you want the nozzle in neutral, and adjust it there. The page below shows how to do this - this is from a 2005 Service manual - so the measurement may not be the same on your model.

 

[djtech2k]

Here is the pic that Jeff commented about and said I should check to see if it needs adjusted. The right gate is a little lower. Now I assume the throttle was in the same place in this picture but I need to look at it specifically for this.



As far as the neutral part, I am not 100% sure. I just learned about the detents in this thread so I am trying to make sense of it. When I put the boat in the detent 1 (close to reverse), I think it stays relatively still. If I put it in detent 2 (closer to fwd) then it creeps fwd very slowly. One thing we experienced Sunday was that when trying to get into a tight spot docking, when we backed off the throttle, the rear end starting going to the right. Now I do not know if that was all a steering issue or if it could be partially the current. The river current was not strong at all and I did not notice it before, but I cannot say anything for certain since it was Sunday. I know my low speed steering is much improved since I added the cobrajet fins. I know my reverse steering was terrible and that when docking, when we were trying to basically coast into the dock the rear end did go a little left. I don't know if we were at low throttle, detent 2, or neutral at that point.

I did also read a few places that if a bucket is even remotely lower, then it can have a big impact on top speed. I thought my boat would be a little faster than it is so that had me thinking too. I do understand that any changes will impact neutral though. I am assuming that by neutral, it means detent 1.

 

[2kwik4u]

Neutral is with the lever straight up and down. This is the position you use to start the boat. In this position there should little or no net force on the boat. You should sit completely still aside from current/wind moving you around. You might get a slight "spin" in this position on a dual engine boat if both buckets aren't adjusted properly, but that spin should be REALLY REALLY subtle.

Detent 1 is for slow-very methodical forward movement. I use Detent 1 WITH No Wake Mode (NWM) around the dock all the time. I will often use NWM on level 2 or 3, and the just "bump" the lever to detent one to add just a shade of forward momentum. I then swing back into reverse to slow that momentum. I will also come in to the dock in NWM-2 and Detent-1, then without changing NWM, move the lever to full reverse. I'll then use reverse to kill the momentum, and to "steer" or "pull" the stern of the boat into the dock.

Detent 2 is for full forward movement. I'll use it with NWM-3 when going through no wake zones, or generally covering long distances at "idle speed". Of course full forward is for, well, full forward movement

From the image you posted, it looks like your starboard side bucket might be a little low, but not absurdly so. It's worth checking to see if it's within tolerance, and adjusting your neutral to be within spec. Getting both buckets to be at the same position will help with consistency of control input to boat movement.

 

[djtech2k]

I am still a little confused on the neutral and detent positions. If I take the throttle all the way backways to give it max throttle in reverse and start from there, the first "position" when moving the throttle forward is what? On my boat, when I hit that first spot, the boat is essentially doing nothing or very little. The next "spot" on the throttle when moving forward is then what? On my boat it is a slow movement forward. Once the throttle leaves that 2nd spot on the throttle, I am in forward.

So does that sound right and what would you call those throttle positions?

 

[2kwik4u]

I am still a little confused on the neutral and detent positions. If I take the throttle all the way backways to give it max throttle in reverse and start from there, the first "position" when moving the throttle forward is what? On my boat, when I hit that first spot, the boat is essentially doing nothing or very little. The next "spot" on the throttle when moving forward is then what? On my boat it is a slow movement forward. Once the throttle leaves that 2nd spot on the throttle, I am in forward.

So does that sound right and what would you call those throttle positions?

Start from center......Where it has to be for the boat to start......That's Neutral.

First detent forward is called TDE (Thrust Directional Enhancement) like the video.

Second detent forward is.....forward. Anything beyond here add throttle.

Like this:

 

[212s]

TDE or first detent is what I like to call "turtle mode" forward - I believe it's used primarily to get the boat to move slowly forward for docking, and lifts the bucket just a bit to get a small amount of forward motion. Full forward lifts the bucket completely so you get all of the jet thrust and more forward motion to attain idle speeds forward. An easy way to see this is to put the boat on the trailer out of the water with the engines off, and have someone move the throttle controls forward and back so you can watch the bucket motion as they move them.

Reverse is thrust directed down and forward under the boat as mentioned. This method of directing the thrust backwards is not as efficient as forward so you need more throttle in reverse to achieve the same level of thrust as going forward - remember this when docking or reversing out of a dock, give it a bit more in reverse to get the same level of forward response.

Neutral puts the bucket in a position that pushes some thrust out the back and directs some down and under the boat to equal the forward and reverse levels of thrust. Since jetboats are always in gear (direct drive off the engine) there is no real "neutral gear" position as there is always thrust produced by the engines. Neutral is just a balanced level of thrust fore and aft to maintain no forward or reverse motion.

When the throttles are equal, the buckets should always be in the same up/down position on port and starboard sides. That's what Jeff noticed in your pic of the buckets. If your throttles are full forward and one is hanging down a bit, you will not get full thrust from that one side as the bucket is slightly blocking the jet output. In Neutral this would mean one engine is pushing while one is pulling a bit more and it will cause drift and/or spin.

 

[Gravy Jones]

The manual pic above says you have to have at least 8mm threaded onto the shift cable. What if you can’t lower the bucket enough to get neutral without going less than 8mm. Is there another adjustment somewhere else to free up more cable length?

 

[Julian]

The manual pic above says you have to have at least 8mm threaded onto the shift cable. What if you can’t lower the bucket enough to get neutral without going less than 8mm. Is there another adjustment somewhere else to free up more cable length?

Yes...there are threads on the other end of the cable in the throttle handle housing.

 

[Gravy Jones]

Any link to info on how to access the other ends?

 

[Julian]

Any link to info on how to access the other ends?

My thread on how to replace the reverse gate cables shows photos of me pulling the throttles out....should be very similar for your boat:

https://jetboaters.net/threads/how-to-replace-reverse-gate-cable.28/