Thrust Vector

[FSH 210 Sport]

Yes, she’s been driving and loading our boats for over 10 years. So she is not a novice. The issue with steering a jet driven boat is new to her but it’s a feeling of a lack of control when it’s windy, etc… we are in Oklahoma. My question was revolving around a feeling, for her, of increased stability at low speed in wind and less about her actual skill.

Right on…. Well lots of folks swear by thrust vectors as far as increased steering control at low speed..

 

[mwalker4]

Yes, she’s been driving and loading our boats for over 10 years. So she is not a novice. The issue with steering a jet driven boat is new to her but it’s a feeling of a lack of control when it’s windy, etc… we are in Oklahoma. My question was revolving around a feeling, for her, of increased stability at low speed in wind and less about her actual skill.

Over the last few years I have been in a similar position with my wife. I put on Cobra Ultimates. It helped some, but it wasn't solved until she completely let go of her sterndrive habits of steering in neutral. I'm sure we will go through some backsliding thus season.

 

[Cowboy14]

Right on…. Well lots of folks swear by thrust vectors as far as increased steering control at low speed..

Yes, I see them debating subject. Some saying they aren’t worth the money and people should just learn to drive a jet drive. I will admit that it was different coming from years of having prop driven boats. But I adapted to it pretty quickly. She has seen the inability to steer responsively when in neutral and allowing her momentum to propel the boat, or slow speeds approaching our trailer in the wind as a negative thing. I simply bump throttle forward to gain control and commit to my line when I’m alone and loading it or docking with both engines split in reverse and forward, driving it like a tank. My thinking is the thrust vectors will add a skeg or “lower unit like” effect to the lower or coasting speed steering when she’s approaching the trailer with boats all around her and there’s a bit of wind. Thanks for the chicks docking video even if it wasn’t a jet drive. Very skillful indeed.

 

[Cowboy14]

Over the last few years I have been in a similar position with my wife. I put on Cobra Ultimates. It helped some, but it wasn't solved until she completely let go of her sterndrive habits of steering in neutral. I'm sure we will go through some backsliding thus season.

Yeah, we only had ours, 15 hours on it, last summer. So she may overcome her stern drive habits as time goes on. I’m not familiar with Cobra Ultimates but you say it really didn’t help. I have only seen the JBP Thrust Vector steering fins. I did like the spring loaded design so they will give way if they hit something. I guess they can be propped up with a kickstand for beaching.

 

[NeoBrew]

I have a twin engine. I've found that slow speed control is better than any other boat I've driven. The combination of being able to go VERY slowly with one engine at the first stop and being able to counter drive each engine far outweighs the neutral rudder effect of a conventional drive.

I also spend a lot of time trolling with mine. I was disappointed with the way the boat drifts when going downwind or crosswind with the trolling motor. I bought the JBP thrust vectors last fall on sale but have not had a chance to try them over the winter. I also picked up the lateral thrusters as part of the package just because it was a relatively cheap add on with deal. I'll report on them this spring when the ice is off the lakes.

 

[Cowboy14]

I have a twin engine. I've found that slow speed control is better than any other boat I've driven. The combination of being able to go VERY slowly with one engine at the first stop and being able to counter drive each engine far outweighs the neutral rudder effect of a conventional drive.

I also spend a lot of time trolling with mine. I was disappointed with the way the boat drifts when going downwind or crosswind with the trolling motor. I bought the JBP thrust vectors last fall on sale but have not had a chance to try them over the winter. I also picked up the lateral thrusters as part of the package just because it was a relatively cheap add on with deal. I'll report on them this spring when the ice is off the lakes.

Yes, I have the FSH 210 twin engine model. I am leaning towards adding the lateral thrusters only because it’s only $200 and I would already be adding the TVs if I get them. I’m driving 90 percent of the time but she drives if we are trolling or loading or unloading. If there’s a full ramp to do either and any wind at all, she starts begging me to wait. If it improves it by even 50 percent, I would call it a win for the marriage and new boat. You know what they say ”boating, it brings people together”. Sit around a boat ramp after everyone has been out drinking and are loading up. It can get pretty funny watching everyone ”coming together”. Lol

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Yes, I see them debating subject. Some saying they aren’t worth the money and people should just learn to drive a jet drive. I will admit that it was different coming from years of having prop driven boats. But I adapted to it pretty quickly. She has seen the inability to steer responsively when in neutral and allowing her momentum to propel the boat, or slow speeds approaching our trailer in the wind as a negative thing. I simply bump throttle forward to gain control and commit to my line when I’m alone and loading it or docking with both engines split in reverse and forward, driving it like a tank. My thinking is the thrust vectors will add a skeg or “lower unit like” effect to the lower or coasting speed steering when she’s approaching the trailer with boats all around her and there’s a bit of wind. Thanks for the chicks docking video even if it wasn’t a jet drive. Very skillful indeed.

From what I understand about thrust vectors, they do not hang down below the bottom of the boat so I don’t know how much they will help with neutral / zero thrust steering. But they do add surface area that would be perpendicular to a skid so there would have to be some benefit.

One of the few things that my boat does that’s not a positive is that it skids in the wind due to the lack of an outdrive sticking down in the water, this is most noticeable at low thrust, with a rear quartering wind, when docking or slow trolling.

When trolling with my electric trolling motor I started using a drogue or drift anchor anchored to the tow point twhen I have a rear quartering wind which helps a lot. This does a few things, it keeps the boat from being pushed faster than what I want while trolling, provides a significant amount of skid control, and due to the drag allows the trolling motor to pull harder increasing directional control of the trolling motor which in turn helps control the amount of skid.

As far as the lateral thrust vectors go, I was interested in them until I watched the video about how they worked. While they do provide some enhanced yaw capability while using both throttles together and turning the wheel, they also reduce the amount of reverse thrust by 50%, and that is not something I’m willing to give up to gain some control that I have by splitting the throttles. Another reason is that I really like the fact I can use reverse thrust as brakes, this is a huge safety factor with our boats and I’m not willing to sacrifice 50% of my braking power. If you have never experimented using the braking feature do so with caution, as Capt Steve from boat test . com said when testing the 195 FSH Sport, “not something to be taken lightly“. The boat will stop so fast it that if people are not either holding on or securely seated it will either throw them to the deck or out of the boat. This is something an I/O or outboard could never do as the dogs will just bounce off each other and won’t engage until the boat slows way down.

At minute 3:30 in the video.

Yamaha 195 FSH Sport (2020-) | BoatTEST

boattest.com

I ran into a situation last year where the wind was blowing 30 mph and gusting to 40 mph, and the wind was blowing perpendicular to the dock. This wind was so strong that splitting the throttles did not work, I had to use the throttles together, and with copious amounts of throttle aggressively to maneuver in this wind to get the boat on the trailer. I was really glad I had the amount of experience I did and the amount of practice I had put in before this event so that I could put the boat onto the trailer without incident. I had to come at the trailer with a lot of thrust to fight the wind which required a lot of reverse thrust at the last moment so I could ease the boat onto the trailer.

For me, I have found that splitting the throttles with the serving wheel centered, or using the throttles together with the steering wheel, or a combination of the two strategies provides a lot of control.

 

[Cowboy14]

From what I understand about thrust vectors, they do not hang down below the bottom of the boat so I don’t know how much they will help with neutral / zero thrust steering. But they do add surface area that would be perpendicular to a skid so there would have to be some benefit.

One of the few things that my boat does that’s not a positive is that it skids in the wind due to the lack of an outdrive sticking down in the water, this is most noticeable at low thrust, with a rear quartering wind, when docking or slow trolling.

When trolling with my electric trolling motor I started using a drogue or drift anchor anchored to the tow point twhen I have a rear quartering wind which helps a lot. This does a few things, it keeps the boat from being pushed faster than what I want while trolling, provides a significant amount of skid control, and due to the drag allows the trolling motor to pull harder increasing directional control of the trolling motor which in turn helps control the amount of skid.

As far as the lateral thrust vectors go, I was interested in them until I watched the video about how they worked. While they do provide some enhanced yaw capability while using both throttles together and turning the wheel, they also reduce the amount of reverse thrust by 50%, and that is not something I’m willing to give up to gain some control that I have by splitting the throttles. Another reason is that I really like the fact I can use reverse thrust as brakes, this is a huge safety factor with our boats and I’m not willing to sacrifice 50% of my braking power. If you have never experimented using the braking feature do so with caution, as Capt Steve from boat test . com said when testing the 195 FSH Sport, “not something to be taken lightly“. The boat will stop so fast it that if people are not either holding on or securely seated it will either throw them to the deck or out of the boat. This is something an I/O or outboard could never do as the dogs will just bounce off each other and won’t engage until the boat slows way down.

At minute 3:30 in the video.

Yamaha 195 FSH Sport (2020-) | BoatTEST

boattest.com

I ran into a situation last year where the wind was blowing 30 mph and gusting to 40 mph, and the wind was blowing perpendicular to the dock. This wind was so strong that splitting the throttles did not work, I had to use the throttles together, and with copious amounts of throttle aggressively to maneuver in this wind to get the boat on the trailer. I was really glad I had the amount of experience I did and the amount of practice I had put in before this event so that I could put the boat onto the trailer without incident. I had to come at the trailer with a lot of thrust to fight the wind which required a lot of reverse thrust at the last moment so I could ease the boat onto the trailer.

For me, I have found that splitting the throttles with the serving wheel centered, or using the throttles together with the steering wheel, or a combination of the two strategies provides a lot of control.

Maybe they have changed them with these new versions? They appear to hang below the hull and the lateral thrust setup for a twin engine setup like ours puts a single side thrust channel on each engine. The video says it captures 30% of the reverse thrust and only when the engine that’s turned is turned all the way over. Port towards port and starboard towards starboard. Otherwise 100% of the reverse is passing by the lateral channel thruster and still gives you full reverse power. So if you use the lateral thrusters, you can really only capture one at a time in a given scenario. Throw the opposite engine slightly forward and you should get a really tight rotation. But I’m less focused on that feature that just the straight TVs. I have not tried braking using reverse, but I will be aware of how quickly it stops. I have not really tried fishing in higher winds but the bucket seems like a good idea for trolling.

 

[drewkaree]

thank you for the feedback. I have 2 seasons down and have dramatically improved my docking skills. I'm on a river and have a good bit of kids on the boat. if it makes it easier and safer i am intrigued but also don't want to waste money. I do have two engines. any thoughts on my scenario? thanks!!

I won't argue yes/no/maybe, that's up to you to decide. Your situation is what I often deal with. On the LAKE, I don't really find them necessary, but they offer more control when picking up a downed skier/tuber/boarder. Can this be done without them? Certainly. Will you get better at this over time? Most definitely. Can accidents happen, even WITH fins and/or experience? Of course. All of that is to say - you do what would make you most comfortable. Would you be kicking yourself if you wanted to go the experience route and save the money on fins, and something happens? Sure. Is it likely to happen? Meh, shrug, whatever "who knows" thing you want to use here, apply it. What's your comfort level with where you're at right now, what's your willingness for gambling/risk/potential, what would benefit you overall as far as others/wife/kid being able to get better QUICKER at this. See what I'm saying? NOBODY here can assess your situation and say "don't bother" or "DEFINITELY, YOU NEED THEM NO MATTER WHAT!!!1ONE!oMg!".

@FSH 210 Sport posted the videos of the girls spinning that big swine in that narrow channel. I have a similar situation, every time, that I deal with when docking. NOBODY in the creek I'm on spins their boat, even though I've got the biggest boat on the creek. They've all got single-motor pontoons, where I have twins and can spin my boat on a dime - I have a VERY shielded channel with zero current at any time, barring tornadoes! LOL

I also frequently boat upriver from the lake I'm on. My fins are a godsend on the river. It was for this reason alone that I ended up taking the plunge to get my fins. Piers are packed in, the current is quite strong in several spots where we stop off, and even with experience, there's times where I would consider having someone get off with dock lines and pull me into position. Generally, this is early in the season when the river is moving much faster, but after adding my fins, it's easily accomplished. Can I get there with more experience without them? Sure. Did this speed up the process for me? Without a doubt. Would I add them to a new boat for MY experience? Again, without a doubt - for MY needs.

I'm not towing someone up and down the river, we're simply moving from place to place, pulling in, stopping for cocktails and music, and moving on to the next spot to do it all again. I tie up to piers a lot. Is your boating the same? Bet not. Is EVERY place on the river I stop at, the same experience? Nope, some are wildly different.

Having had them for a while, I can say that there is a dollar amount that I wouldn't be willing to spend on them, as I don't view them as a foolproof fix, but for what they've done for me, they were worth the money I spent on them. With time, every person gains experience with their boat, which would make it easier down the road to steer your boat. If you have them now, you might skip them on your next boat, if you feel more comfortable, depending on your boating experience and typical usage.

Similar to the video of those girls, our creek is about 30' wide in front of my pier. If I go down to the end of the creek, there's an area carved out that's 40-50' wide for boats to turn around, and the neighbors or any visitors go down there to turn their boats around. My father-in-law couldn't spin his 16' SeaRay around on two separate occasions without tagging his prop once, then his bow, and never did it again. He had dozens of years more experience than I did, but a single motor, and not a lot of practice doing what I do. @WiskyDan can attest to my creek, he wasn't comfortable spinning his 24' Yamaha in the same spot. Take whatever I said for what free advice is worth, and here's a pic of what I deal with. Fins didn't make this any easier, as I feel I could spin any boat on a dime and park it here, but I didn't add my fins for this, I added them for my usage on the river. I think at some point this upcoming year, I'm gonna have the wife get some pics to show just what these boats can do

 

[drewkaree]

Yes, she’s been driving and loading our boats for over 10 years. So she is not a novice. The issue with steering a jet driven boat is new to her but it’s a feeling of a lack of control when it’s windy, etc… we are in Oklahoma. My question was revolving around a feeling, for her, of increased stability at low speed in wind and less about her actual skill.

Both types of fins work very well at low speeds to tighten up the steering, and help to lessen or remove the wandering feeling. Before my fins, I hated long rides up the river because it's a lot of no wake. On the weekends, we would choose to boat elsewhere to avoid it because it was a PITA with more people out at that time. She'll appreciate them. It's not going to be a guaranteed fix, but I can guarantee she'll notice the improvement. What's that worth to you, dollar-wise?

Do take note of the video of the two girls - the motors themselves on their boat helps with steering as well, whereas we only have the articulating keel. Not quite the same amount of surface area contributing to the process! LOL

As for your point about the fins being spring loaded, take a look. Your transom may be different, but if you weren't concerned about beaching without the fins, then you either weren't considering the articulating keel, or it simply won't be an issue, fins or not:




You're going to have a lot more problems to worry about than the fins, if you have to rely on the spring-loaded-ness of them! LOL You WILL want to be aware of them if you face your transom towards shore, but IMO, you shouldn't need to take your boat that close to shore anyway. You're going to risk potentially rubbing the hull or the pumps on the bottom if you're going close enough to worry about the fins, but that's just my view.

I have a twin engine. I've found that slow speed control is better than any other boat I've driven. The combination of being able to go VERY slowly with one engine at the first stop and being able to counter drive each engine far outweighs the neutral rudder effect of a conventional drive.

This. Neighbor who had advised me against a jet drive has been highly impressed. His main concern was fuel economy, but he was only aware of the old jets, and his kid, who used to sell boats, explained the improvements in all-around performance. I let the neighbor drive a bit, and other than getting used to "I need some thrust in order to move", in his words, the steering was pretty remarkable for what you could do with the boat.

Yes, I have the FSH 210 twin engine model. I am leaning towards adding the lateral thrusters only because it’s only $200 and I would already be adding the TVs if I get them. I’m driving 90 percent of the time but she drives if we are trolling or loading or unloading. If there’s a full ramp to do either and any wind at all, she starts begging me to wait. If it improves it by even 50 percent, I would call it a win for the marriage and new boat. You know what they say ”boating, it brings people together”. Sit around a boat ramp after everyone has been out drinking and are loading up. It can get pretty funny watching everyone ”coming together”. Lol

I can't give a percentage, because I can't figure out how a woman would view it. I believe it'll be a noticeable improvement for her. Will it change her mind about waiting?

Sitting and watching the people at the launch by my place was one of the more fun activities! I'm certain I watched the start of several divorces! "I'm sorry for what I said while docking the boat" is funny, because it's true! My wife says I'm not really sorry, but if she just would....LOL

 

[Cowboy14]

I see what you are saying about the keel. I have not beached the boat. I have done what you said with anchoring it facing away method and positioned the back of the boat towards the beach. I guess since the keel is stationary and sits at the same level according to your pics, the ability to have them lift up really is only serving to raise them up when you are running wide open or needing better access to the jet output area rather than for protecting them at a low water area or beach. now the question is JBP or Cobra?

 

[Stubok]

I see what you are saying about the keel. I have not beached the boat. I have done what you said with anchoring it facing away method and positioned the back of the boat towards the beach. I guess since the keel is stationary and sits at the same level according to your pics, the ability to have them lift up really is only serving to raise them up when you are running wide open or needing better access to the jet output area rather than for protecting them at a low water area or beach. now the question is JBP or Cobra?

Did you make a decision on which fins to go with?

If so, how are they performing?

I just picked up a 210FSH and I’m considering JBP TV+LV

 

[EastonRob]

This is my first season with my boat (FSH 255). I ran it on our river a handful of times, and I did find the slow speed tracking challenging (it was definitely the proverbial drunk walk home). I installed the JBP thrust vectors about 8 weeks ago, and I'm pretty happy with them. Slow speed cruising is much easier now, and I can actually devote some of my attention to things other than trying to keep the boat on course. I did NOT get the lateral vectors for the reasons stated: a) they would be nice, but I didn't want to give up 50% reverse power, and b) I find splitting the throttles when docking to be sufficient, so far. It has been particularly helpful for efficiently and safely picking up a downed wakeboarder/skiier. With my daughter living with us this summer there's been more of that type of boating than I anticipated.

No material reason why I went with JBP over the Cobras. I'm sure the Cobras would work well, too.

One oddity that may or may not be related to the thrust vectors: sometimes when cruising at slow speeds in calm water, like around 5 mph, I can get an intermittent "rooster tail" from one of the jets. We'll be slowly motoring around and there will be this sudden noisy whooshing sound with a rooster tail that looks like one of the jets is pointed slightly up or something. No big deal, it just gets your attention, and altering speed up or down makes it go away. I don't recall if it did that before the installation of the TV, but I'm thinking maybe at 5 mph the spring loaded retraction system on one side can't decide if it wants to go up or down. Just WAG on my part, but curious what others think.

 

[Cowboy14]

Did you make a decision on which fins to go with?

If so, how are they performing?

I just picked up a 210FSH and I’m considering JBP TV+LV

Yes, I went with the Cobras. I looked at what they were both made of (JBP composite plastic vs Cobra Jet aircraft aluminum). I just thought the Cobras would last and would be more stable.
Here's what I bought. They were about $535 and no problem at all to install. I have noticed a definite improvement at lower speeds as well as idle coasting into a dock or trailer. At full throttle, I don't do a lot of hard turns but I'm sure there's more control there too. I will add a couple of pics and I can show more if you need to see them from the rear etc...
Cobra Super Magnum AK-19 and new Super Magnum AK-19 DELUXE steering for 2019 and newer Yamaha Twin Engine Articulating Keel Boats

Cobra Venom Magnum AK-19 kit

Super Magnum AK-19 DELUXE - Steering w/Cobra AK FANGS

Watercraft Year/Make/Model

2021 Yamaha FSH 210