TR-1 Ribbon delete....

[TeenGee]

I am surprised the ribbon restricted the intake to the point that removing it increased your top speed by 2mph. I was thinking about removing the ribbons from my 2022 210FSH. Before I did, I put a vacuum gauge on the intake manifold downstream of the throttle body. The ribbon and air filter were still installed. At full throttle, the gauge showed 0psi of vacuum which means no restriction. I see 2 explanations. Either, I need a more sensitive vacuum gage or the ribbon and air filter do not restrict performance.
Has anyone else gained performance by removing the ribbon and/or air filter?
Thoughts?

 

[Corsair21111]

I am surprised the ribbon restricted the intake to the point that removing it increased your top speed by 2mph. I was thinking about removing the ribbons from my 2022 210FSH. Before I did, I put a vacuum gauge on the intake manifold downstream of the throttle body. The ribbon and air filter were still installed. At full throttle, the gauge showed 0psi of vacuum which means no restriction. I see 2 explanations. Either, I need a more sensitive vacuum gage or the ribbon and air filter do not restrict performance.
Has anyone else gained performance by removing the ribbon and/or air filter?
Thoughts?

So I just pulled both of my intake manifolds over the weekend and removed the ribbons.

***PSA*****. Just in case anyone is wondering there is 100% no way to safely do this on TR-1’s without pulling the intake manifold’s off. It makes a mess and created a lot of metal shavings. If your not comfortable taking your intake manifold’s off or need step by step picture tutorial’s of the process I strongly advise against doing this.

That being said, I hope to get a chance to take the boat out this coming weekend and see if there is any difference. I did not spend the $320 purchasing a pair of the Riva kits. I simply removed the ribbons and then used my dremel tool to smooth out the transition where the ribbon was seated going into the intake plenum. I have $0 invested in this mod and about 4 hours or so of my time. Even if I only see a 1-2mph difference I’ll consider that a win.

So far with my family (4 of us) on board, 50% fuel a and the Bimini top closed the fastest I’ve gotten the boat to go is 38mph.

My boat is a 2023 AR220 that we bought new back in the beginning of May. I have approximately 27 hours on it and have a pretty good feel for how it performs with just my family and our gear on board.

I’ll report back as soon as we get a chance to get back out on the water.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I am surprised the ribbon restricted the intake to the point that removing it increased your top speed by 2mph. I was thinking about removing the ribbons from my 2022 210FSH. Before I did, I put a vacuum gauge on the intake manifold downstream of the throttle body. The ribbon and air filter were still installed. At full throttle, the gauge showed 0psi of vacuum which means no restriction. I see 2 explanations. Either, I need a more sensitive vacuum gage or the ribbon and air filter do not restrict performance.
Has anyone else gained performance by removing the ribbon and/or air filter?
Thoughts?

I talked to one of the speed shops about doing this to gain as much air as I could since I‘m at high altitude and was told there is no gain on the TR-1‘s to be had by removing the ribbon. Same person said there would be a gain by replacing the OEM air filters with the RIVA K&N style filter. I confirmed that there was a gain for me of roughly 150-200 rpms by doing back to back runs on the lake, up wind one way and down wind the other with each filter. I’m clawing for every rpm I can get. And right before I do my next oil change I’m going to do what @HangOutdoors suggested and lower my oil level from the very top to 1/2 but I’m going to work my way down, from the top to 3/4, then to 2/3, then to 1/2 and see how the rpms increase. I think, if my memory serves, that @HangOutdoors said he picked up 500 rpms, hopefully he will chime in and either confirm or correct what I’ve written here.

Also, IMHO, the wire mesh of a K&N style filter is not a flame arrestor, the oil gauze in the filter will catch on fire if a back fire were to come up and hit it. I think that the flame arrestors usefulness went away with carburetted engines as I’ve never seen or heard a fuel injected engine back fire, but it also can’t hurt. Also, IMHO, if you remove the OEM filter box and its snorkel style of air intake where it pulls air from the highest point it can and replace it with a K&N style right on the end of the electronic throttle valve lowering the air intake by 8” or so you will hydro lock your engine a lot sooner if you get significant water in the bilge which could mean the difference between a bit of a scary day on the water and the boat getting swamped and your engines ruined.

 

[anmut]

I talked to one of the speed shops about doing this to gain as much air as I could since I‘m at high altitude and was told there is no gain on the TR-1‘s to be had by removing the ribbon. Same person said there would be a gain by replacing the OEM air filters with the RIVA K&N style filter. I confirmed that there was a gain for me of roughly 150-200 rpms by doing back to back runs on the lake, up wind one way and down wind the other with each filter. I’m clawing for every rpm I can get. And right before I do my next oil change I’m going to do what @HangOutdoors suggested and lower my oil level from the very top to 1/2 but I’m going to work my way down, from the top to 3/4, then to 2/3, then to 1/2 and see how the rpms increase. I think, if my memory serves, that @HangOutdoors said he picked up 500 rpms, hopefully he will chime in and either confirm or correct what I’ve written here.

Also, IMHO, the wire mesh of a K&N style filter is not a flame arrestor, the oil gauze in the filter will catch on fire if a back fire were to come up and hit it. I think that the flame arrestors usefulness went away with carburetted engines as I’ve never seen or heard a fuel injected engine back fire, but it also can’t hurt. Also, IMHO, if you remove the OEM filter box and its snorkel style of air intake where it pulls air from the highest point it can and replace it with a K&N style right on the end of the electronic throttle valve lowering the air intake by 8” or so you will hydro lock your engine a lot sooner if you get significant water in the bilge which could mean the difference between a bit of a scary day on the water and the boat getting swamped and your engines ruined.

I run my oil at half between the checks and never had an issue. Full RPS's all the time.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I run my oil at half between the checks and never had an issue. Full RPS's all the time.

Thanks!

I did a re pitch on my impellers to get them from 6500-6800 up to the 7500 that they are at now at 5000’. I was trying to get a good compromise for my closest lake at 5000’ and the lower lake at 1250’. And when it gets good and hot, 9000’ density alt that 7500 drops to 7200-7300. I know I will be under propped at Lake Oahe so I’ll just have to not pin it, or run my OEM impellers there. I was at 3200’ yesterday, 100*, 52* dew point=6487’ density alt, 2 people including me, 70% fuel and was running right at 7500-7600.

 

[HangOutdoors]

I run my oil 1/4 to 1/3 bettween L and F. At F I dropped on average 300-500 RPMS

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

So I just pulled both of my intake manifolds over the weekend and removed the ribbons.

***PSA*****. Just in case anyone is wondering there is 100% no way to safely do this on TR-1’s without pulling the intake manifold’s off. It makes a mess and created a lot of metal shavings. If your not comfortable taking your intake manifold’s off or need step by step picture tutorial’s of the process I strongly advise against doing this.

That being said, I hope to get a chance to take the boat out this coming weekend and see if there is any difference. I did not spend the $320 purchasing a pair of the Riva kits. I simply removed the ribbons and then used my dremel tool to smooth out the transition where the ribbon was seated going into the intake plenum. I have $0 invested in this mod and about 4 hours or so of my time. Even if I only see a 1-2mph difference I’ll consider that a win.

So far with my family (4 of us) on board, 50% fuel a and the Bimini top closed the fastest I’ve gotten the boat to go is 38mph.

My boat is a 2023 AR220 that we bought new back in the beginning of May. I have approximately 27 hours on it and have a pretty good feel for how it performs with just my family and our gear on board.

I’ll report back as soon as we get a chance to get back out on the water.

Did you realize any gains with your ribbon removal?

Did you try the RIVA K&N style air filter ?

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I am surprised the ribbon restricted the intake to the point that removing it increased your top speed by 2mph. I was thinking about removing the ribbons from my 2022 210FSH. Before I did, I put a vacuum gauge on the intake manifold downstream of the throttle body. The ribbon and air filter were still installed. At full throttle, the gauge showed 0psi of vacuum which means no restriction. I see 2 explanations. Either, I need a more sensitive vacuum gage or the ribbon and air filter do not restrict performance.
Has anyone else gained performance by removing the ribbon and/or air filter?
Thoughts?

Dunno if you saw my post here about the air filter gains… I ran my tests back to back to back, paper element in made two runs, paper element out made two runs, RIVA filter in two runs, paper elements back in made two runs.

So I think perhaps your vacuum gauge may not be sensitive enough? Did you use an inches of water column gauge? Where or how did you tap into the intake manifold down stream of the ETV?

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I talked to one of the speed shops about doing this to gain as much air as I could since I‘m at high altitude and was told there is no gain on the TR-1‘s to be had by removing the ribbon. Same person said there would be a gain by replacing the OEM air filters with the RIVA K&N style filter. I confirmed that there was a gain for me of roughly 150-200 rpms by doing back to back runs on the lake, up wind one way and down wind the other with each filter. I’m clawing for every rpm I can get. And right before I do my next oil change I’m going to do what @HangOutdoors suggested and lower my oil level from the very top to 1/2 but I’m going to work my way down, from the top to 3/4, then to 2/3, then to 1/2 and see how the rpms increase. I think, if my memory serves, that @HangOutdoors said he picked up 500 rpms, hopefully he will chime in and either confirm or correct what I’ve written here.

Also, IMHO, the wire mesh of a K&N style filter is not a flame arrestor, the oil gauze in the filter will catch on fire if a back fire were to come up and hit it. I think that the flame arrestors usefulness went away with carburetted engines as I’ve never seen or heard a fuel injected engine back fire, but it also can’t hurt. Also, IMHO, if you remove the OEM filter box and its snorkel style of air intake where it pulls air from the highest point it can and replace it with a K&N style right on the end of the electronic throttle valve lowering the air intake by 8” or so you will hydro lock your engine a lot sooner if you get significant water in the bilge which could mean the difference between a bit of a scary day on the water and the boat getting swamped and your engines ruined.

I ran my tests this summer on lowering the oil level incrementally down to the 1/4 full mark and made back to back runs, the result was zero change in rpm’s with lower oil levels. So I run my oil level just a tad below the full mark measured with the engine and oil fully warmed up.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I ran 47 mph on the sx190 and 56mph on the sx240 both with ribbon delete

What were the speeds before you took out the ribbon? Did you do anything else besides the ribbon delete?

 

[Corsair21111]

Did you realize any gains with your ribbon removal?

Did you try the RIVA K&N style air filter ?

I did notice a small gain in mph. We were able to hold 39 and bounce off of 40mph. With just my wife and I on board, air filters removed, 15% fuel and a glass smooth Lake Anna VA in early August we brieflyhit 42mph.

I did purchase a set of the Riva air filters back in October after I had winterized the boat so I haven’t had the opportunity to install them yet.

It still needs more power imo. I would really like to see 135-140hp out of these motors.

I was reading the info you posted today in reference to swapping the cams out to increase volumetric efficiency. More lift, more duration = more air and fuel, resulting in a bigger bang! Having seen the gains of a good set of cams in automotive applications I believe this could be a viable option for us.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

https://rivaracing.com/riva-yamaha-tr-1-intake-manifold-upgrade-kit-ry12090-imuk.html

I did notice a small gain in mph. We were able to hold 39 and bounce off of 40mph. With just my wife and I on board, air filters removed, 15% fuel and a glass smooth Lake Anna VA in early August we brieflyhit 42mph.

I did purchase a set of the Riva air filters back in October after I had winterized the boat so I haven’t had the opportunity to install them yet.

It still needs more power imo. I would really like to see 135-140hp out of these motors.

I was reading the info you posted today in reference to swapping the cams out to increase volumetric efficiency. More lift, more duration = more air and fuel, resulting in a bigger bang! Having seen the gains of a good set of cams in automotive applications I believe this could be a viable option for us.

How are your rpm’s ?

 

[Corsair21111]

https://rivaracing.com/riva-yamaha-tr-1-intake-manifold-upgrade-kit-ry12090-imuk.html

How are your rpm’s ?

I honestly do not recall what rpm’s I hit. I thought I had my wife video our top speed run but I can’t seem to find it on my phone. It may be on hers. I’ll get her to check it tomorrow.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I honestly do not recall what rpm’s I hit. I thought I had my wife video our top speed run but I can’t seem to find it on my phone. It may be on hers. I’ll get her to check it tomorrow.

Rated rpm in the TR-1 is 8000… so if you are close to that you’re doing pretty good.

What altitude are you at? What was the temperature?

The RIVA air filters you bought will act just like not having the paper elements in there.

 

[Corsair21111]

Rated rpm in the TR-1 is 8000… so if you are close to that you’re doing pretty good.

What altitude are you at? What was the temperature?

The RIVA air filters you bought will act just like not having the paper elements in there.

Lake Anna is 257’ above sea level. Temp was in the low 80’s. My told me this morning that she recalls me saying we are at about 7,700 rpm’s.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Okay that is pretty close.. I was just wondering if you were high enough elevation and density altitude wise to warrant a slight re pitch of your impellers. Thanks for that info!

You might try a simple test one day on one engine to see if taking the PCV out of the equation will give you any more rpm. I was just going to run a hose from the valve cover out through the fire port, and just plug off the oem hose in the engine bay. Some folks say to just put a little short tube with a filter on it on top of the engine, but you are still getting that hot oxygen depleted air into the engine bay and into the engines. If you find it helps you can just vent them outside the engine bay some place where they cant get water in them.

 

[Corsair21111]

Okay that is pretty close.. I was just wondering if you were high enough elevation and density altitude wise to warrant a slight re pitch of your impellers. Thanks for that info!

You might try a simple test one day on one engine to see if taking the PCV out of the equation will give you any more rpm. I was just going to run a hose from the valve cover out through the fire port, and just plug off the oem hose in the engine bay. Some folks say to just put a little short tube with a filter on it on top of the engine, but you are still getting that hot oxygen depleted air into the engine bay and into the engines. If you find it helps you can just vent them outside the engine bay some place where they cant get water in them.

That sounds like a great experiment! I absolutely love data and being able to compare setups. Once I unwrap the boat and get it out on the water again I will try this and report back.

Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

So, something occurred to me the other day, I’d think to make our engines run their best they need cool / cold air from outside the engine compartment. Look at all cars and trucks these days, all of them pull their intake air from the front of the vehicle or some other location to get the coolest induction air possible, Gale Banks started the cold air induction decades ago. I have observed an increase in engine rpm’s, as much as 300-400 rpm, if I turn on the bilge blowers while underway at WOT when it’s hot out, and the rpm’s drop back off if I turn off the bilge blowers, this isn’t instant it takes a few minutes.

Cool air is much more dense than hot air (more oxygen), this raises the cylinder pressure, the MAP sensor and IAT sensor will then deliver more fuel to match the cooler denser air, delivering more power. The other advantage here is that the engine will run cooler, and those with super charged engines will have more power as well and the delta between the cooler outside air being compressed / heated means that the intercooler doesn’t have to remove as much heat from the compressed air.

 

[TeenGee]

I gave up on squeezing rpm out of the TR-1 and went SVHO.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I gave up on squeezing rpm out of the TR-1 and went SVHO.

That’s awesome….but I currently don’t have that option. We are all waiting for your boat test on that sweet H model!