Wake booster combined with opposite side wake shaper???

[UnfixedPyle]

There are tons of threads on here about dialing in a surf wake, but I have not seen anything about people trying to combine devices. Has anyone experimented with adding a traditional wake shaper that goes on the opposite side of the surfer with the wake booster? Something like one of these: SWELL Wakesurf - Wake Shapers Collection - The Best Suction Shaper | SWELL Wakesurf

 

[Wicked92]

traditional delayed convergence devices dont work on a jet boat.

They cause the boat to pull to 1 side which in turn you counter steer which points the jet pumps right into the rider and the wave, destroying the quality.

 

[UnfixedPyle]

traditional delayed convergence devices dont work on a jet boat.

They cause the boat to pull to 1 side which in turn you counter steer which points the jet pumps right into the rider and the wave, destroying the quality.

That makes sense why no one ever mentions using those. Glad I asked before buying one and trying it, I was definitely not thinking about second or third order affects of that.

 

[Farny]

That makes sense why no one ever mentions using those. Glad I asked before buying one and trying it, I was definitely not thinking about second or third order affects of that.

Additionally - not sure there is a wedge that fits our boats

 

[SCP1]

Tried a WakeBooster on both sides, at the same time (did not work well).

 

[obrien19]

See, for me, i've been on the "surf boat" journey. I haven't tried surfing yet. Only have a SX190, but I'm really interested in trying. I've discovered that malibu used to have their "power wedge" be designed for manual deployment. If someone much smarter than myself could some how design a similar concept to help suck the back of the jetboat down. Smaller foil, one mounted on each side of the transom, that could just be clicked into place. I mean we would already be mounting the wakebooster.

 

[Flamewolf51]

Yes I have been thinking about this as well. An inverted hydrofoil that pulled the backend down and acted as an artificial ballast in the back. Does anyone think something like this could be mounted to the ladder without doing damage to the hull?

 

[Julian]

Yes I have been thinking about this as well. An inverted hydrofoil that pulled the backend down and acted as an artificial ballast in the back. Does anyone think something like this could be mounted to the ladder without doing damage to the hull?

No way the ladder and underside of the transom are designed to take that kind of stress. We've had posts about large people bending ladders. I imagine that a foil would exhert something like 1000-2000 pounds of force pulling down the hull far enough (similar to the water weight to achieve the same result) to create a good wave. That pressure would be applied to a flat piece of fiberglass with little reinforcement. Would be cool of they could design it and add it from the factory!

 

[Flamewolf51]

Agreed. Did some homework after posting this. What about on the tie down hooks? I have been thinking about designing a wakebooster style hook up with a hydrofoil attached to that… any thought on if that could handle the stress?

 

[Farny]

Agreed. Did some homework after posting this. What about on the tie down hooks? I have been thinking about designing a wakebooster style hook up with a hydrofoil attached to that… any thought on if that could handle the stress?

not sure you would get a benefit worth the risk of tearing up your boat. This is our 19ft with only ballast no wake shaper and no wake booster. - another regular side I think your best bet is ballast and maybe a shaper. I’m planning building my second homemade booster, we will see if that adds anything

 

[haknslash]

There is no way a jet boat is going to be able to handle the amount of drag a wedge like Malibu and Axis create. The drag alone would overcome the impellers for sure and it would cavitate like no tomorrow.

Delayed convergence does not work as mentioned. There are threads on here where I and others have tried it. Sounds great on paper but a different story once you try it.

The recipe to make a wave on a jet boat has been pretty well documented on here.I would stick with what has shown to work.

 

[Flamewolf51]

Thank you for your opinion, but I would like to ask what you mean by drag. Do you mean how much the boat would displace? And I am also curious how it would cavitate the impellers by just being forced down deeper in the water. I guess my idea was to mimic the use of extra ballast weight. Plus the recipe for making a wave is far from perfect in my opinion and could be improved.

 

[Wicked92]

Thank you for your opinion, but I would like to ask what you mean by drag. Do you mean how much the boat would displace? And I am also curious how it would cavitate the impellers by just being forced down deeper in the water. I guess my idea was to mimic the use of extra ballast weight. Plus the recipe for making a wave is far from perfect in my opinion and could be improved.

Drag as in that type of wedge in the water causing the boat to work harder to get moving and also more turbine speed to hold the same speed. When you over load a jet boat, be it weight, or drag, the pumps can and will cavitate. Then you ain't going no where, and also risk burning your props up. Turbine pumps are much different than a regular prop in water.

 

[Wicked92]

To add, the wedge forces the boat deeper in water by way of force, that force is drag....dragging the boat down by way of using fluid dynamics while moving which absorbs power the boat is trying to use to move forward.

 

[haknslash]

Thank you for your opinion, but I would like to ask what you mean by drag. Do you mean how much the boat would displace? And I am also curious how it would cavitate the impellers by just being forced down deeper in the water. I guess my idea was to mimic the use of extra ballast weight. Plus the recipe for making a wave is far from perfect in my opinion and could be improved.

You can think of it like trying to pull up two 500+ lb men on slalom skis. Those two impellers would be begging for mercy while they cavitate. That would be without a drop of ballast added.

There have been lots of ideas and methods tried on here. You’re welcome to experiment with what you think will work. Unfortunately none of them are going to be “perfect” with these bots. There is always some level of sacrifice and work involved. It’s just the nature of these kinds of boats. Not trying to rain on your ideas or anything, just saying a lot has been tried over the years.

If you don’t want to shell out for the Gantlin wedge or deal with a wake booster you can go a more DIY route with a heavy rubber mat. The biggest enemy with these boats aside from lightweight is the jet wash. Just search in here for what all people have tried and you’ll see what has worked and what hasn’t. Best of luck in whatever you try.

 

[Farny]

Cavitation can be a problem - our single engine 195 cavitates a bit at startup with surfers - 750lb ballast + 4-5 ppl on the boat. Takes a few seconds but it does subside at about 7mph when the impeller fully grabs. I’ve minimized it by a slight drag-pull start. @haknslash - you mentioned risking burning up the impeller? Can you tell me more about that?

 

[haknslash]

Burns on an impeller are a side effect of cavitation. What I’m saying is the impellers will be struggling to ‘hook up” or ‘bite’ with that kind of load. Add a ton of ballast to these boats, especially rear biased and you will see what I’m talking about. It will feel like a slipping clutch or spinning in mud at some point.

 

[Farny]

Y

Burns on an impeller are a side effect of cavitation. What I’m saying is the impellers will be struggling to ‘hook up” or ‘bite’ with that kind of load. Add a ton of ballast to these boats, especially rear biased and you will see what I’m talking about. It will feel like a slipping clutch or spinning in mud at some point.

Understand what your saying - we had to move a couple to the bow seats to help out our starts when full ballast. Should I be concerned about the burn?

 

[haknslash]

You’ll want to avoid cavitation as best you can as it will ultimately create burns on your impeller which means replacing sooner it as efficiency drops over time. Just keep an eye on it but you for sure don’t want to be revving out if you feel the slip. Moving people to the front will help take some of the load off the impellers on start and then you can have them readjust seating. This is why a wedge like a Malibu or Axis won’t work on something like a jet because the impellers can’t take that kind of load. Need a big prop to ‘bite’ into water with drag like that.

You can hear it in this old video of my 192 when I was testing ballast setups once I filled both bags

 

[Farny]

You’ll want to avoid cavitation as best you can as it will ultimately create burns on your impeller which means replacing sooner it as efficiency drops over time. Just keep an eye on it but you for sure don’t want to be revving out if you feel the slip. Moving people to the front will help take some of the load off the impellers on start and then you can have them readjust seating. This is why a wedge like a Malibu or Axis won’t work on something like a jet because the impellers can’t take that kind of load. Need a big prop to ‘bite’ into water with drag like that.

You can hear it in this old video of my 192 when I was testing ballast setups once I filled both bags

Thanks!!