Thoughts/Opinions on this Audio System (Audiophiles Welcome)

[Wrecked Rooster]

This will be a long post, but I want to make sure I'm getting it right. I'm completely new when it comes to the audio game. I have never installed any kind of sound system. However, I used to install access control systems, surveillance systems for a living and am pretty savvy when it comes to electrical stuff. Learning on all of the speaker and amp terminology and how they function together. Here's what I want out of the system:

• Nice, clear sound that's audible as we are driving the boat (doesn't have to be concert level or make every boat turn their head as we pass)
• I'd like to be able to do one part (4 interior speakers) first then add additional speakers (2 additional mid speakers and 2 tower speakers and a sub -maybe 2 on the swim deck) in the future
• It would be nice to be able to run the volume on the tower speakers/sub and the interior speakers separately (I think this is called zoning? I hope, because I'm going to say that term a lot through this)
  • My current head unit is the stock Infinity PRV315.2 and I don't believe it can do the zoning. They are $300 shipped new and I feel like I can sell it for $225 shipped.
• I'd like to have a remote at the stern to run the stereo while in the water (Infinity has a simple one that is ~$100)
• If it's easier to sell my factory unit and buy one that dual zone built in, I don't mind doing that.

Now for the questions/options I'm looking at **Please feel free to critique and/or offer suggestions**:

• Is there a way to do zoning with my current head unit? If not, I have found a few options that have it listed that they do:
  • Kicker KMC4 for $315 with a KRC12 remote for $50 = $365
  • Fusion MS-RA210 for $350 with a MS-ARX70B ANT remote (no drilling or wire running) for $50 = $400
• For factory replacement speakers I don't need high end Wet sounds or JL. These would also be (or possibly 8" versions of these) the speakers I would add on later in the middle of the boat and possibly on the swim deck. Here's what I'm looking at and any recommendations for/against are welcome:
  • Polk DB652 = $89 a pair
    • 100 RMS 300 Peak
    • Sensitivity 92
  • Infinity 622MW = $100 a pair
    • 75 RMS 225 Peak
    • Sensitivity 92
  • Kicker KM 6.5 = $100 a pair
    • RMS 65 Peak 195
    • Sensitivity 90
• Tower speakers (again, feel free to critique):
  • Kicker KMTC8 cans with 45KM84L speakers = $665
    • RMS 150 each 300 Peak each
    • Sensitivity 92
• Amplifiers
  • For the factory replacements:
    • NVX VAD 10004 = $280
    • RMS: 150 x 4 @ 4 ohms, 250W x 4 @ 2 ohms, Bridged 500W x 2 @ 4 ohms
  • For the Tower Speakers:
    • NVX VAD 8402 = $200
    • RMS: 300 x 2 @ 4 ohms, 420W x 2 @ 2 ohms, Bridged 840W x 1 @ 4 ohm
  • Mid speakers and swim deck speakers add another NVX VAD 10004
• Battery(ies)
  • This one I'm going to reach out to my brother-in-law that owns a company that builds battery storage for offsight oil rigs, but am open to suggestions from the group if y'all have a good setup. Figure I'll have a monitor in the dash for the batteries and have a dedicated NOCO charger for them.

That's about it. If you've made it this far, I owe you a beer (or 6). Thank you for any and all help!

 

[MilesPrower]

Did your boat come with 2 batteries?

Mine came with 2 batteries, but only one of them was wired. (The second battery had zero cables attached to it.)

If you don't already have a dual-battery system, the easiest route is to go with a dual-battery A, B, A+B switch, like this one:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000K2MCR2/

And a two-channel plug-in charger like this:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B079JDL3D1/

With a simple setup like this, you don't have to worry about adding an ACR (Automatic Charging Relay), circuit breakers, and ground bus.

I keep my boat plugged in at my dock (with a surge suppressor for FL thunderstorms), and I usually run the boat on battery A while I reserve B for everything else (like my stereo, underwater lights, air compressor, etc.). If either battery goes low, I can always start the motors on the higher-voltage battery (or on both batteries), and while the motors are running, I can turn the switch through the A+B setting to switch batteries if I want the stators to charge the lower-voltage battery. (Never switch through the OFF setting while running the motors!!!)

I also installed this power port below the seat cushion/hatch for the battery compartment, so I can plug in the boat to dock power without propping the cushion open:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B079M6BCW9/

 

[Wrecked Rooster]

Did your boat come with 2 batteries?

Mine came with 2 batteries, but only one of them was wired. (The second battery had zero cables attached to it.)

If you don't already have a dual-battery system, the easiest route is to go with a dual-battery A, B, A+B switch, like this one:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000K2MCR2/

And a two-channel plug-in charger like this:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B079JDL3D1/

With a simple setup like this, you don't have to worry about adding an ACR (Automatic Charging Relay), circuit breakers, and ground bus.

I keep my boat plugged in at my dock (with a surge suppressor for FL thunderstorms), and I usually run the boat on battery A while I reserve B for everything else (like my stereo, underwater lights, air compressor, etc.). If either battery goes low, I can always start the motors on the higher-voltage battery (or on both batteries), and while the motors are running, I can turn the switch through the A+B setting to switch batteries if I want the stators to charge the lower-voltage battery. (Never switch through the OFF setting while running the motors!!!)

I also installed this power port below the seat cushion/hatch for the battery compartment, so I can plug in the boat to dock power without propping the cushion open:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B079M6BCW9/

just checked and I only have the one battery with a factory installed kill switch. Thanks for the recommendations!

 

[HangOutdoors]

Did your boat come with 2 batteries?

Mine came with 2 batteries, but only one of them was wired. (The second battery had zero cables attached to it.)

If you don't already have a dual-battery system, the easiest route is to go with a dual-battery A, B, A+B switch, like this one:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000K2MCR2/

And a two-channel plug-in charger like this:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B079JDL3D1/

With a simple setup like this, you don't have to worry about adding an ACR (Automatic Charging Relay), circuit breakers, and ground bus.

I keep my boat plugged in at my dock (with a surge suppressor for FL thunderstorms), and I usually run the boat on battery A while I reserve B for everything else (like my stereo, underwater lights, air compressor, etc.). If either battery goes low, I can always start the motors on the higher-voltage battery (or on both batteries), and while the motors are running, I can turn the switch through the A+B setting to switch batteries if I want the stators to charge the lower-voltage battery. (Never switch through the OFF setting while running the motors!!!)

I also installed this power port below the seat cushion/hatch for the battery compartment, so I can plug in the boat to dock power without propping the cushion open:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B079M6BCW9/

Your setup is fine, but I don't want to screw with switching batteries all the time if the they get low. Setup up the ACR and let it do its thing. I turn on the switch on and nothing left to think about. I can combine if there is an issue. The Blue Seas Add A Battery with the ACR is a snap to install, although I went big on all the wiring for mine, you don't have to. Nothing to remember, watch or think about after that.

 

[Shookie]

It appears your radio has 2 zones.... I looked quickly at the manual and I saw RCA outputs for front and back. You can run 2 zones off that.


I have a Fusion MS-RA70NSX and it has 2 zones as well. You could always change it but why spend the $$$.

My boat has the Polk DB652 speakers in it. I just bought 2 more and am adding them in the middle of the cockpit so I have more sound while driving. Plenty of guys replace all of the speakers with higher end stuff that will take more power and play louder. I am in the middle of buying parts to upgrade my stuff now and have read plenty.... Sounds like with a proper amp, the Polk's can put out some quality, loud music. Based on what I read, I decided to keep the Polk's in my boat (I have 8 already) and I bought 2 more.

My advice, keep your speakers the same. There's something to be said for having the same "tone" coming from your speakers. With an engine running, you won't notice that but floating you may hear it. There's also something to be said for the look and having all your speakers look the same.

Can't help you much on towers. I have JL 7.7's on mine. I know they're pricey but came with my boat so I didn't pay

For the amp, I debated a ton. Finally decided to go with a JL MX280/4. I've honestly never heard of NVX amps and I don't recall reading anything on here from others. Not sure how popular they are. The JL amps are highly, highly recommended by many on here. For the Polk speakers, I doubt you need that much power though. I'm adding 1 amp now and will add a 2nd one, hopefully during the winter along with a sub. You are talking about 3 amps and to me that's overkill. Plenty of guys on here though have 3 or more amps powering a ton of speakers and multiple subs.

For batteries, I have 2 and highly recommend it. Even if I run the house battery dead, I still have the start battery to get the engines going again. There are plenty of threads here where guys have added a 2nd or even a 3rd battery.

Good luck with everything!!!

 

[Wrecked Rooster]

It appears your radio has 2 zones.... I looked quickly at the manual and I saw RCA outputs for front and back. You can run 2 zones off that.
View attachment 149928

I have a Fusion MS-RA70NSX and it has 2 zones as well. You could always change it but why spend the $$$.

My boat has the Polk DB652 speakers in it. I just bought 2 more and am adding them in the middle of the cockpit so I have more sound while driving. Plenty of guys replace all of the speakers with higher end stuff that will take more power and play louder. I am in the middle of buying parts to upgrade my stuff now and have read plenty.... Sounds like with a proper amp, the Polk's can put out some quality, loud music. Based on what I read, I decided to keep the Polk's in my boat (I have 8 already) and I bought 2 more.

My advice, keep your speakers the same. There's something to be said for having the same "tone" coming from your speakers. With an engine running, you won't notice that but floating you may hear it. There's also something to be said for the look and having all your speakers look the same.

Can't help you much on towers. I have JL 7.7's on mine. I know they're pricey but came with my boat so I didn't pay

For the amp, I debated a ton. Finally decided to go with a JL MX280/4. I've honestly never heard of NVX amps and I don't recall reading anything on here from others. Not sure how popular they are. The JL amps are highly, highly recommended by many on here. For the Polk speakers, I doubt you need that much power though. I'm adding 1 amp now and will add a 2nd one, hopefully during the winter along with a sub. You are talking about 3 amps and to me that's overkill. Plenty of guys on here though have 3 or more amps powering a ton of speakers and multiple subs.

For batteries, I have 2 and highly recommend it. Even if I run the house battery dead, I still have the start battery to get the engines going again. There are plenty of threads here where guys have added a 2nd or even a 3rd battery.

Good luck with everything!!!

thanks for the great info. I’ll call infinity to confirm the dual zone and how to hook it up properly. Bang for your buck, the polks seem hard to beat.

 

[ctyke]

I have the PRV315.2 and it has two zones (fader front and back). I went with an EQ to add a tower zone. You can add a remote, Infinity INFREM1, but make sure to get the extension cable, Milennia REX20-6. I went with the concert on the water option. See my signature for link.

 

[Wrecked Rooster]

I have the PRV315.2 and it has two zones (fader front and back). I went with an EQ to add a tower zone. You can add a remote, Infinity INFREM1, but make sure to get the extension cable, Milennia REX20-6. I went with the concert on the water option. See my signature for link.

I'll check out the link. Do you feel the 10's on your tower get in the way at all? Looks like we have the same boat.

 

[Maineiac]

The stock infinity stereo doesn’t have “zones” the way most people tend to describe them here. Think of it like a fader in your car. And the setting is buried in the menus as well. You’d have your towers as “front” and then all the cabin speakers together as “rear”.

I believe there are aftermarket parts you can add that could control the level of your tower speakers independently of the stereo system if you really don’t want to get rid of the stock radio. My dealer mentioned something like this.

I went with the Wet Sounds MC-20 radio. It’s almost an exact match for the size of the stock radio and has a button for zone control on the front of the radio so it’s super easy to turn the towers on/off. It also has a transom remote option if you want.

 

[WiskyDan]

I had DB651’s on my boat up until last week which were solid speakers and I’ve heard good things about the DB652’s - as long as power them with an amp.

As for batteries, I did a fair amount of investigating and ended up with a pair of Odyssey’s. You can see my long winded reply in this thread - it’s #53:

https://jetboaters.net/threads/lets-talk-batteries.29668/page-3

 

[ctyke]

I'll check out the link. Do you feel the 10's on your tower get in the way at all? Looks like we have the same boat.

I've hit my head a couple of times, I'm 6'1", but learned not to do that. I don't feel they are in the way for most of what I do. I have more sound then I really need, but is fun to turn it up to 11 when I want.

 

[MilesPrower]

just checked and I only have the one battery with a factory installed kill switch. Thanks for the recommendations!

Def!

And if you go the ACR route as HangOutdoors recommends, I'd also go with his recommendation of going "big on all the wiring," especially in regards to adding a ground bus bar, because you're gonna have a bit more wire to route with a switch, ACR, two batteries, plug-in charger (which I still recommend regardless, especially if you store your boat in "ready state" for more than a month at a time), and additional cutoff relays/breakers/fuses where appropriate. I used a Blue Sea Systems Add-A-Battery kit on my previous boat, along with a NOCO charger, but I didn't think it was worth the hassle when I wired up the dual batteries in my AR210, especially because I wanted to use an isolated dual-channel charger to keep each of the batteries optimally maintained.

Read this Blue Sea Systems memo (especially the last paragraph describing the additional relay or switches you'll need to add) if you decide to go with an ACR and shore power:

Multiple Output Battery Chargers - Blue Sea Systems

Engineering high quality marine electrical components for safety, reliability and performance

www.bluesea.com

Also...

If you haven't already, you should mount a Halotron extinguisher in one of the closets near your helm. A Halotron extinguisher will put out an engine fire (inside a closed compartment) faster than the First Alert marine extinguisher that you currently have in your battery closet — without the mess and corrosive damage caused by dry chemical extinguishers. Also, because the battery closet isn't sealed from the engine, you shouldn't open the battery closet if there's a fire "under the hood." Yamaha added an extinguisher port for a reason.

I have two chemical extinguishers (for open fires) and one Halotron extinguisher (for the closed engine compartment) mounted in my boat in three different locations.

I paid $149 for this Halotron extinguisher:

Kidde PROPLUS5HM $177.95 Fire Extinguisher, 5B:C, Halotron, 5 lb | Zoro.com

You're a fellow tinkerer, so I imagine you've ordered from Zoro before. Zoro has a discount code for pretty much everything, so you don't have to pay full price.

Also, to meet USCG requirements, you'll need to mount that extinguisher with this USCG-compliant bracket:

KIDDE Replacement Mariner Fire Extinguisher Mounting Bracket (Fits Mariners 5 10 110) | West Marine

(And yes, Halon is twice as effective as Halotron by weight, but Halon is also 2–3× the price.)

 

[MilesPrower]

Figure I'll have a monitor in the dash for the batteries and have a dedicated NOCO charger for them.

And while we're talking chargers — if you do decide to add a battery charger, I would recommend staying away from NOCO. Over the decades (for my many many vehicles) I've had 6 Deltran Battery Tenders, 5 NOCOs, and now the Guest (as well as countless chargers for my RC aircraft and trucks ). The Guest has been flawless. Meanwhile, I had one NOCO boil (and destroy) an AGM battery, another NOCO keep switching to LiFePO4 mode even though it was connected to an AGM battery, one Battery Tender catch fire, and another Battery Tender melt. I know that a sample-size of 1 for the Guest isn't really sufficient as a recommendation, but I did a bunch of research before I bought my Guest, and everything I read about the company and their recent products (and the many anecdotal opinions on TheHullTruth as well as Amazon, etc.) affirmed that Guest makes affordable chargers that (a) don't overcook batteries, and (b) don't catch on fire.

Personally, I suggest going with a two-channel charger/maintainer (with isolated channels) like the Guest I recommended, but again, read the Blue Sea Systems memo if you decide to go with an ACR for suggestions on how to wire an ACR with additional relays/switches to coexist with the charger.

 

[HangOutdoors]

You can't go wrong with NOCO or Promariner. I have spoken to many people who use NOCO and a great deal of people on this forum use NOCO charges,, never heard anything but good reviews on them. Actually you are the first to give it a negative review that I have seen. I am sure if there were issues with them it would have been all over this board with the amount of us whom have them and are active on this forum. Perhaps you just have a run of bad luck.

Make sure the charger you purchase can charge the chemistry's of the batteries you have.

For the blue seas ACR you don't need to wire up additional relays and switches to co exist with a multi bank charger. I just had this discussion on the phone with them two weeks to clarify a few things.

There are basically two simple ways to do it.
1) You wire your chargers banks directly to each battery.
2) If the battery are similar they indicated that it doesn't matter and you can wire the ACR to the Battery side (posts) of the switch, one each on Bat 1 and Bat 2.
3) If the batteries are dissimilar, then you should wire each side to the Load Side of the Switch, one each on 1 and 2. When you turn off your switch then this will Isolate the Batteries and also take the ACR out of the loop.

I truly feel that this last option should be used at all times since when you switch off and go on the multibank charger, it isolates each battery and also removes the ACR from the equation. Option 3 makes the most sense and each bank can maintain just the battery it is tied to, plus I am running 3 different chemistry batteries and the NOCO Gen5 PRO is the only decent charger that can handle all of them.

If you have any questions, I also recommend calling Blue Seas Directly. They are fantastic and sent me emails and diagrams as we were discussing several different scenario's while we were on the phone.

 

[MilesPrower]

Let me clarify:

If you have a true multi-channel charger (like the current gen NOCO, Guest, ProMariner, etc.), you really should consider adding an ACR disable switch or relay if:

1. You're connecting the charger directly to the batteries after you've wired the ACR and DCP in the layout that is described in the manual for the Blue Sea Systems Add-A-Battery Kit.

Or...

2. You go with HangOutdoors recommendation and connect the charger channels to the other side of the DCP switch, and you want to be able to turn on the DCP switch while your charger is connected to shore power. (For example, you want to charge your batteries from shore power and listen to the stereo at the same time while you're working on your boat between outings, or you want to update your chartplotter's maps while you're still connected to shore power.)

In both instances above, skipping the ACR disable switch/relay "increases the chances for over charging and may possibly lead to a shorter battery life" (as explained by the former VP R&D of Blue Sea Systems), because what you're effectively doing is tying together the two channels of your multi-channel charger when the ACR kicks in and parallels the batteries.

Therefore, if you go with HangOutdoors recommendation, I would still add an ACR relay or a separate "house on" switch — if you think you (or anyone else) will ever "turn on the boat" (stereo, chartplotter, blowers, etc.) while connected to shore power. And if you're going that route, I would also add an emergency switch that allows you to flip the house and start batteries in case the batteries are on their last legs... but you don't realize it because you've been relying on all of the automatic charging systems (ACR as well as shore power) to do their thing... and after a busy day of multiple restarts, the start battery fails when you're a two-hour tow away from the dock... and paralleling the batteries causes enough sag that you can't turn the engine over. (Speaking from real world experience... when I was miles offshore. Fortunately, I'm geeky enough to carry a Li-poly jump pack.)

Anyway, if the above scenarios are edge cases for you, then please feel free to ignore.

With all that said, if I ever get a big-ass cruiser or tug with a real need for a bank of batteries for house and a separate start battery, I'm going to go with three, impossible-to-get-wrong, main switches: house on, emergency flip, and start on... with an ACR, multichannel charger, and charge isolation switches. Maybe in 20 years.

 

[Wrecked Rooster]

Here's what I'm thinking (input/thoughts welcome)". During my research, I found that:

1. D class amps are the way to go for less heat and better power consumption
2. When choosing an amp, each channel should be 1.5 times the speakers RMS rating with respect to the OHM's
3. Sensitivity is more important than the RMS watts rating. (example, a 65 watt RMS speaker w/92 DB sensitivity is better than a 90 watt RMS speaker w/88 DB sensitivity)

I might have gone down the rabbit hole with this one, but I tend to do that witch just about everything I get into. (that's how I ended up with the Yamaha) Here's the equipment I'm looking at and how I would set it up.

Speakers:
Four SKAR 6.5" marine speakers @ 80 watts RMS
Two Kicker 8" tower speakers @ 150 watts RMS

Amplifier:
NVX VAD1004 - (SKAR speakers)
RMS: 150 x 4 @ 4 ohms, 250W x 4 @ 2 ohms, Bridged 500W x 2 @ 4 ohm
Vad8402 - (Tower speakers)
RMS: 300 x 2 @ 4 ohms, 420W x 2 @ 2 ohms, Bridged 840W x 1 @ 4 ohm

Thoughts?

 

[adrianp89]

1. 100%
2. More power is always a safe bet. (You can always turn down the gain, but you can't turn it up)
3. This is tough subject that you will get different answers on. In the marine world, I would simply go with what can handle more power (assuming you have it).

The amps give you plenty of headroom to upgrade your speakers down the road, so I think what you have chosen will be good. If you are looking for volume, I would spend the extra coin and get the Kicker KMTC9s instead.... the power is there. I currently have mine under powered at 150watts and at full volume you can't hold a conversation 20 feet behind the boat, and they hardly lose volume until over 100 feet past the boat.

 

[Julian]

Here's what I'm thinking (input/thoughts welcome)". During my research, I found that:

1. D class amps are the way to go for less heat and better power consumption
2. When choosing an amp, each channel should be 1.5 times the speakers RMS rating with respect to the OHM's
3. Sensitivity is more important than the RMS watts rating. (example, a 65 watt RMS speaker w/92 DB sensitivity is better than a 90 watt RMS speaker w/88 DB sensitivity)

I might have gone down the rabbit hole with this one, but I tend to do that witch just about everything I get into. (that's how I ended up with the Yamaha) Here's the equipment I'm looking at and how I would set it up.

Speakers:
Four SKAR 6.5" marine speakers @ 80 watts RMS
Two Kicker 8" tower speakers @ 150 watts RMS

Amplifier:
NVX VAD1004 - (SKAR speakers)
RMS: 150 x 4 @ 4 ohms, 250W x 4 @ 2 ohms, Bridged 500W x 2 @ 4 ohm
Vad8402 - (Tower speakers)
RMS: 300 x 2 @ 4 ohms, 420W x 2 @ 2 ohms, Bridged 840W x 1 @ 4 ohm

Thoughts?

One of my Polk Amps (5 channel) has a dead channel and they don't make this model anymore.....so I'm looking at replacing it. I was originally thinking just find an old Polk and make it easy to swap, then I was thinking I'd just go whole hog and put in a JL ($900), but you have me intrigued with this SKAR amp. They make a 5 channel..... Are they any good? Why are the JLs more than DOUBLE the price? What am I sacrificing?

I am also thinking I'd replace the Polk sub woofer.....but perhaps it just needs more power?

 

[Wrecked Rooster]

One of my Polk Amps (5 channel) has a dead channel and they don't make this model anymore.....so I'm looking at replacing it. I was originally thinking just find an old Polk and make it easy to swap, then I was thinking I'd just go whole hog and put in a JL ($900), but you have me intrigued with this SKAR amp. They make a 5 channel..... Are they any good? Why are the JLs more than DOUBLE the price? What am I sacrificing?

I am also thinking I'd replace the Polk sub woofer.....but perhaps it just needs more power?

The speakers I'm looking at are made by SKAR. They don't offer a whole lot of amps in class D. Most are AB. The amps I'm looking at are NVX (that's the brand). Here's a quick link to a dyno test of one of the NVX amps:

Not the specific one I'm looking at, but in the same model range. As far as polk goes, I was/am looking at this amp:

Amazon.com: Polk Audio PA D4000.4 (PAD4000.4) 800W RMS PA D Series Class-D 4-Channel Car Amplifier : Electronics

Buy Polk Audio PA D4000.4 (PAD4000.4) 800W RMS PA D Series Class-D 4-Channel Car Amplifier: Mono Amplifiers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

 

[Wrecked Rooster]

1. 100%
2. More power is always a safe bet. (You can always turn down the gain, but you can't turn it up)
3. This is tough subject that you will get different answers on. In the marine world, I would simply go with what can handle more power (assuming you have it).

The amps give you plenty of headroom to upgrade your speakers down the road, so I think what you have chosen will be good. If you are looking for volume, I would spend the extra coin and get the Kicker KMTC9s instead.... the power is there. I currently have mine under powered at 150watts and at full volume you can't hold a conversation 20 feet behind the boat, and they hardly lose volume until over 100 feet past the boat.

This article helped me understand the 3rd part a little better. Especially playing around with the calculator.

Understanding Speaker Sensitivity - Geoff the Grey Geek

A simple explanation on how to understand and use Speaker Sensitivity specifications. Includes calculators to determine how loud your speakers will be.

geoffthegreygeek.com