2015 AR240 - Proper way to run power/ground to aftermarket accessories behind helm

[ralphsmithiii]

I've been looking into the proper way to run additional power and ground to behind the helm to power some additional accessories. Currently I have 4 gauge power and ground running from the batteries (JL Marine Fuse by battery) then directly into a JL M8/800 amp. I'd like to be able to correctly run my chartplotter and now a WS-420SQ both being powered behind the helm. I saw some have added an additional fuse box behind the helm (@Benny Sibbitt ) I believe run a new set of 8 or 6 gauge wires from the batteries back to it then tied off from there. I'm wondering if I can use the 4 gauge power and ground I have now (maybe should of run 2 or 0 AWG but I wont want to re-run unless I have to) and break that off to a 8 gauge distribution block then out to the M8/800 and to a fuse panel such as Amazon.com : Blue Sea Systems 5025 ST Blade Fuse Block - 6 Circuits with Negative Bus and Cover : Auxiliary Fuse Block : Sports & Outdoors. Or take the 4 gauge p/g that's ran into a 4 to 8 gauge distro block so the amp still gets 4 gauge and 8 to the fuse panel. What I'm not 100% clear on as well is what's the proper way to ground the fuse panel since these boats have a common ground or should share a common ground with the stereo system.

Of, should I just run new lines from the batteries back to the fuse panel and call it a day?

 

[Benny Sibbitt]

I ran new wire straight from the battery for my fuse box.
I didn't want to take a chance and cause amp interference or causing that ghost humming sound

Hopefully someone with more experience will chime in

 

[swatski]

I've been looking into the proper way to run additional power and ground to behind the helm to power some additional accessories. Currently I have 4 gauge power and ground running from the batteries (JL Marine Fuse by battery) then directly into a JL M8/800 amp. I'd like to be able to correctly run my chartplotter and now a WS-420SQ both being powered behind the helm. I saw some have added an additional fuse box behind the helm (@Benny Sibbitt ) I believe run a new set of 8 or 6 gauge wires from the batteries back to it then tied off from there. I'm wondering if I can use the 4 gauge power and ground I have now (maybe should of run 2 or 0 AWG but I wont want to re-run unless I have to) and break that off to a 8 gauge distribution block then out to the M8/800 and to a fuse panel such as Amazon.com : Blue Sea Systems 5025 ST Blade Fuse Block - 6 Circuits with Negative Bus and Cover : Auxiliary Fuse Block : Sports & Outdoors. Or take the 4 gauge p/g that's ran into a 4 to 8 gauge distro block so the amp still gets 4 gauge and 8 to the fuse panel. What I'm not 100% clear on as well is what's the proper way to ground the fuse panel since these boats have a common ground or should share a common ground with the stereo system.

Of, should I just run new lines from the batteries back to the fuse panel and call it a day?

There can be such tremendous variation in quality - within the same AWG specs, I find.
I am 100% non-expert, just try to follow advice here. In that vein, I used the KnuKonceptz 4awg OFC wire that has a feel of a high quality welder cable, lol. Crazy good stuff.

Here is what I did, based on recommendations from @Mainah and others here:

I have it all nicely bundled inside conduits and protected with foam noodle



Common path ground is the key!

Guys - including @bigblank69, @Mainah, and @adrianp89 - big thank you for all the advice.
I cleaned up, tightened, and grounded the HU along with all three amps and WS420 to the common big wire direct to battery - no more hum! The hum is gone! I can even run my blowers - and still no hum!!!

Now, I'm not totally out of the woods, yet. Still have some very faint cracking/ticking noise - and it is generated/sensitive to RCAs connecting to my WS420.
Not bad, and I could live with that but given I know the source I'm inclined to try eliminate it. My system would then be AMAZING (for me).

So, those WS420 RCA cables go back under the helm - where I have a lot going on...
View attachment 80389

It is a short path (WS420 to Amps) but lots of potential interference - I don't know if I can avoid/re-route much, it's a cluster, small space. I also have to split the "cockpit" WS420 output into two amps that power 10 cabin/swim deck speakers (no amp bypass). So....

Are there RCA cables/connectors available that eliminate/reduce noise?

TIA!

--

 

[Mainah]

The thoughts around a seperate run for the other accessories to eliminate interference is a good one. In that case run audio gear off of house and everything else off of start. If just one from house and the ground wire is big enough it will help dissipate the noise when everything is on the same trunk line. More than anything all audio equipment should have the same path to ground. There are also other ways to deal with noise. My setup and recent challenges with noise is a great example. The DSP I used was picking up a bunch of HF and inductive load noise. A ceramic capacitor was the fix.

Here is what my helm setup looks like (old photo that does not include my recent additions of another amp and the dsp but still relevant). I have 0 awg from house going into the distribution block (middle of photo) and then 4 awg feeding amps and the accessory fuse panel/ground bus bar from the distribution block.

Amp Board 2.0 front

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018
• 2

If only the one amp and some low draw accessories then 4awg is enough and just need a distribution block to split off to a fuse panel for the accessories.

 

[Stevenpigsooie]

I have 4awg going from the house battery to a circuit breaker less than 12 inches from the battery and then run to the helm to a Blue Sea fuse block. The ground is run directly to the battery’s negative terminal. It’s powering the trim tabs and I’m adding a high water alarm and vapor alarm. I have a couple questions I’m hoping can be answered and hopefully will help the OP as well.
1. Is this setup safe and appropriate for how I’m using it?

2. I wish it ran through the DVSR switch so I could cut all the power at once. Is this possible or even a good idea?

 

[zipper]

Make sure you size the wire to handle the current from the 150a circuit breaker. And make sure the fuse panel is rated for that current. I believe my blue sea 6 ckt w/ gnd. Is rated for 100amps. 150amp breaker is too big for the panel. Then choose the wire guage (size) based on total current draw of 100a and length of run and voltage drop from the chart below. Example for electronics a 3% voltage drop, a 20' run for 100amps requires a #2 AWG. wire.

Part 1: Choosing the Correct Wire Size for a DC Circuit - Blue Sea Systems

Engineering high quality marine electrical components for safety, reliability and performance

www.bluesea.com

 

[Stevenpigsooie]

Thank you for that response. I think I have the 100 amp circuit breaker, that was a generic picture I pulled from Amazon. But now I’m going to go look at the boat and double check. That was helpful the way you laid it out and the chart makes more sense now.

 

[Julian]

At this point, I'd probably just run a new positive line and a ground bus bar and be done with it. You can click on the 242x link in my signature to see what I bought and photos etc. I did a simple install of a Blue Sea ST Blade fuse blocks-one for behind the helm, one for the battery compartment. Makes adding other components easy.

Behind the helm:

 

[ralphsmithiii]

The thoughts around a seperate run for the other accessories to eliminate interference is a good one. In that case run audio gear off of house and everything else off of start. If just one from house and the ground wire is big enough it will help dissipate the noise when everything is on the same trunk line. More than anything all audio equipment should have the same path to ground. There are also other ways to deal with noise. My setup and recent challenges with noise is a great example. The DSP I used was picking up a bunch of HF and inductive load noise. A ceramic capacitor was the fix.

Here is what my helm setup looks like (old photo that does not include my recent additions of another amp and the dsp but still relevant). I have 0 awg from house going into the distribution block (middle of photo) and then 4 awg feeding amps and the accessory fuse panel/ground bus bar from the distribution block.

Amp Board 2.0 front

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018
• 2

If only the one amp and some low draw accessories then 4awg is enough and just need a distribution block to split off to a fuse panel for the accessories.

Awesome and that install looks super clean. I'm still planning on running the lines sooner than lately but may not hold off as I've gotten some new suggestions as how to tweak my audio tune to see if I'll get the sound I want out of it. I posted this because I wanted to install a WS-420 but I'm not holding off for the moment. Regardless, I will be re-doing my amp board and yours is something I'll try and semi copy =).

 

[Mainah]

Awesome and that install looks super clean. I'm still planning on running the lines sooner than lately but may not hold off as I've gotten some new suggestions as how to tweak my audio tune to see if I'll get the sound I want out of it. I posted this because I wanted to install a WS-420 but I'm not holding off for the moment. Regardless, I will be re-doing my amp board and yours is something I'll try and semi copy =).

Of note I have added hinges. When I did my last upgrade the was no way to support it and get behind it which was a time consuming mistake. I had to remove the dash with the board still attached to add hinges and then swing it open to add more.

Proper tuning makes a big difference.

 

[ralphsmithiii]

@Mainah I currently have 4awg running from the batteries to the m800/8. If I where to install another amp say a m400/4 could I break that 4awg to a distribution block to power both amps or would/should I run another pair of power and ground? If that's the case is it worth running 0 awg then break out to 4 like you did. I don't expect to add more if I add the towers in.

 

[Julian]

Of note I have added hinges. When I did my last upgrade the was no way to support it and get behind it which was a time consuming mistake. I had to remove the dash with the board still attached to add hinges and then swing it open to add more.

Proper tuning makes a big difference.

Yeah...being able to easily access the amps control settings is critical! This is something Yamaha NEVER CONSIDERED when they put the Polk amps in the battery compartment with the controls facing the gunnel!

 

[Mainah]

@Mainah I currently have 4awg running from the batteries to the m800/8. If I where to install another amp say a m400/4 could I break that 4awg to a distribution block to power both amps or would/should I run another pair of power and ground? If that's the case is it worth running 0 awg then break out to 4 like you did. I don't expect to add more if I add the towers in.

That depends. How long is your run? What kind of 4awg did you use? (Not all are equal) are you running subs? How loud do you usually play it? Do want very likely ok, no doubt ok, or overkill? I trust in engineering but am the type that likes an extra 10 percent threshold just because.

 

[ralphsmithiii]

I used the JL Audio Marine power and ground cables provided by Earmark - Marine Audio - Power Connections - Premium Power Wire

The runs are 20-25ft, running from the battery compartment through the engine bay down the starboard side to behind the helm.

I'm running (1) 10" JL IB Sub.

When cruising, I have it cranked 80-90%. When parked I expect it to be less once I add the towers in. Plan is to cut the cabin and sub and let the towers play when parked.

I'm looking for no doubt OK or better.

 

[Mainah]

That JL wire is great stuff and if you were not running power hungry towers and sub I would say maybe ok. Those high volume bass hits are going to draw a lot of juice and heat up that 4 awg wire though. A single 2awg run would be the minimum but since not very common and no money savings a single 0 awg run of the high end jl cable or knuknoceptz flexs (same stuff but cheaper). You could run another 4 awg power and ground but risk ground loop interference if you do that.

 

[rkim808]

Yeah...being able to easily access the amps control settings is critical! This is something Yamaha NEVER CONSIDERED when they put the Polk amps in the battery compartment with the controls facing the gunnel!

Ho Boy, I have my JL amps mounted in this locations, should I think about moving them to behind the helm? The system sounds great and no issues what so ever, I’m a strong believer of “Not Broke, No Fix”. But I’ve been seeing all ur guys amp boards behind the helm and how easily accessible they r. Just be thinking if I gotta move them.

 

[Stevenpigsooie]

Sorry not trying to hijack the conversation but I think it’s applicable and will help others who may have similar questions. On the Blue Sea Systems 3 step process for selecting wire, fuse type, and fuse holder, is the fuse type based on the amp of the individual components drawing from it? For instance, I have 4awg running <30 feet through a 100 amp circuit breaker to a ST blade fuse block. The biggest draw right now are the trim tabs at 30 amp. So if I don’t exceed 100 total and remain less than 30 per component then I’m okay, correct? Or should I be using the AMI or MIDI fuse based on the step 2 chart. (Linked below)

http://assets.bluesea.com/files/resources/reference/20010.pdf

 

[Mainah]

Ho Boy, I have my JL amps mounted in this locations, should I think about moving them to behind the helm? The system sounds great and no issues what so ever, I’m a strong believer of “Not Broke, No Fix”. But I’ve been seeing all ur guys amp boards behind the helm and how easily accessible they r. Just be thinking if I gotta move them.

No need to move. Just more convenient there for some. Those JL amps will likely run underwater if that is even a concern for you.

 

[Julian]

Ho Boy, I have my JL amps mounted in this locations, should I think about moving them to behind the helm? The system sounds great and no issues what so ever, I’m a strong believer of “Not Broke, No Fix”. But I’ve been seeing all ur guys amp boards behind the helm and how easily accessible they r. Just be thinking if I gotta move them.

Agree with @Mainah , don't move it, and if you've got it tuned...you are all set! I just wish Yamaha had installed the stock amps on the 242X the other way around, so that the wires were going in the far side, and the controls were all facing out. Clearly the wiring layout was not planned by someone who's ever tuned a system!

 

[rkim808]

Agree with @Mainah , don't move it, and if you've got it tuned...you are all set! I just wish Yamaha had installed the stock amps on the 242X the other way around, so that the wires were going in the far side, and the controls were all facing out. Clearly the wiring layout was not planned by someone who's ever tuned a system!

mahalo(thank u) @Mainah and @Julian, didn’t mean to hijack thread either.