255XD horrible speed control for wake surfing, this is acceptable?

[Wicked92]

Took the 255xd out this morning for a dawn patrol on my local river that leads to the bay. 6am on the water, no wind, no boats. JUST GLASS. 3 people in boat 165-200lbs each, rider 175lbs. I had ballast at 100 100 55 (surf side), 500lb sac on transom favoring surf side, built in wake boost deployed of course, manual acceleration, target speed 11.2. Water depth is not great as the deepest part in the river/channel is 7-8ft. Surprisingly we were able to go ropeless but wave was tall and short. Best results were in the 9.4 to 9.8mph range verified with phone app .....now the problem, which was dicussed a lil in other threads.

The speed control is absolute garbage on this boat. Having cruise set at say 11.2mph the boat never makes it there. 11.2 nets 9s, hitting the cruise + to increase to 12 or so gets us into the 10s. Mind you cruise for wakeboarding works fine, hits target and keeps it.

The dance you have to do with the + and - on the cruise assist to try and hit your actual target while keeping one eye on your phone app, the other watching the wake to try and dial it in, steering the boat its ridiculous. Why even have this system? It looks great on paper, and on the screen but it doesnt work as intended. Theres been plenty complaining about this on earlier 242xs with the connext and a few new owners like myself with the latest and greatest yamaha has to offer. This is a serious flaw for a wake boat slated for wake surf specialty. Last week I had 7 in the boat and the stock ballast only and i had to set the profile to 15mph (which is also the max for the built in wake booster to be deployed) and it struggled to get into the 10s.

The boat has the power, it has plenty of rpm left to try and hit target. I cant run in manual mode bypassing the cruise, as the wakebooster will not deploy without. A new 252x will work better by using a manual wake booster and regular cruise control i bet. This control algorithm needs a serious update.

Who else with a new 255xd/xe experiencing this? 252 owners?

 

[Mesa50]

I had the same issue with my 2021 212XE. The gps refresh rate seems to be the problem. It does seem to be getting better the more I use it. My first few trips on the water, my position on the screen was 50 yards off. It would show me on land sometimes. Now it tracks fairly well, but my position is a little too laggy. If the system can’t tell where you are at a decent refresh rate, it will never hold speed correctly.

 

[Kyle Johnston]

Took the 255xd out this morning for a dawn patrol on my local river that leads to the bay. 6am on the water, no wind, no boats. JUST GLASS. 3 people in boat 165-200lbs each, rider 175lbs. I had ballast at 100 100 55 (surf side), 500lb sac on transom favoring surf side, built in wake boost deployed of course, manual acceleration, target speed 11.2. Water depth is not great as the deepest part in the river/channel is 7-8ft. Surprisingly we were able to go ropeless but wave was tall and short. Best results were in the 9.4 to 9.8mph range verified with phone app .....now the problem, which was dicussed a lil in other threads.

The speed control is absolute garbage on this boat. Having cruise set at say 11.2mph the boat never makes it there. 11.2 nets 9s, hitting the cruise + to increase to 12 or so gets us into the 10s. Mind you cruise for wakeboarding works fine, hits target and keeps it.

The dance you have to do with the + and - on the cruise assist to try and hit your actual target while keeping one eye on your phone app, the other watching the wake to try and dial it in, steering the boat its ridiculous. Why even have this system? It looks great on paper, and on the screen but it doesnt work as intended. Theres been plenty complaining about this on earlier 242xs with the connext and a few new owners like myself with the latest and greatest yamaha has to offer. This is a serious flaw for a wake boat slated for wake surf specialty. Last week I had 7 in the boat and the stock ballast only and i had to set the profile to 15mph (which is also the max for the built in wake booster to be deployed) and it struggled to get into the 10s.

The boat has the power, it has plenty of rpm left to try and hit target. I cant run in manual mode bypassing the cruise, as the wakebooster will not deploy without. A new 252x will work better by using a manual wake booster and regular cruise control i bet. This control algorithm needs a serious update.

Who else with a new 255xd/xe experiencing this? 252 owners?

 

[Kyle Johnston]

I have a 255xe and i recently had 10 adults on the boat and 300 lbs on the transom surfside with ballast at 100/100/50 people were evenly distributed and i had no problem surfing around 11-11.5 with my profile set to 12 just had to hit the + a few times to dial it in. and was able to surf ropeless. im wondering if something isn't right with yours.

 

[Wicked92]

I have a 255xe and i recently had 10 adults on the boat and 300 lbs on the transom surfside with ballast at 100/100/50 people were evenly distributed and i had no problem surfing around 11-11.5 with my profile set to 12 just had to hit the + a few times to dial it in. and was able to surf ropeless. im wondering if something isn't right with yours.

im going to reseal my pump tunnels, as i think im having a cavitation issue. With the new fatsac 850lbs on transom corner surf side, 100-100-100 and 300lbs ballast up front the boat struggled to get past 9mph. There others on the fb groups with similar issues too. Ive had to move alot more weight than i want up to the bow to help the boat get up and out to 10 to 11mph. My boat def gets worse with the more weight that is on it, as do others. The one instance the boat was basically pinned on the limiters and all it was making was a frothy mess behind the boat at 8-9mph.

Wonder also if my surfpointe angles are too aggressive from the redo the dealer set them at.

Could you get me measurements on your articulating keel dead straight with keel of boat and pump plate to eyelet bolt centerlines on port and starboard?

 

[Kyle Johnston]

Take some pictures of exactly how you want things measured and I will replicate them for you.

 

[Wicked92]

Take some pictures of exactly how you want things measured and I will replicate them for you.

Start boat for a sec, one engine is fine. Center steering wheel, shut engine off. Articulating keel should be straight with back side of boat and with keel under boat.

Measure each nozzle from back of pump plate to the adj heim centerline of bolt that attaches the steering cable.

Key is keel straight, if your center of steering has the keel off, move steering wheel until it is.

 

[Kyle Johnston]

Start boat for a sec, one engine is fine. Center steering wheel, shut engine off. Articulating keel should be straight with back side of boat and with keel under boat.

Measure each nozzle from back of pump plate to the adj heim centerline of bolt that attaches the steering cable.

Key is keel straight, if your center of steering has the keel off, move steering wheel until it is.

 

[Wicked92]

View attachment 158439

im taking that is port side by the measurement. What is starboard?

Nozzles straight are 11.75 to centerline. My surfpointe is roughly 1/2 canted on each nozzle, so 11.25 on port, 12.25 on starboard.

By looking at yours they are light. If you are roughly at 11.5 port, id expect if yammy did them even (thats asking for alot lol) starboard will be at 12ish.

 

[Kyle Johnston]

im taking that is port side by the measurement. What is starboard?

Nozzles straight are 11.75 to centerline. My surfpointe is roughly 1/2 canted on each nozzle, so 11.25 on port, 12.25 on starboard.

By looking at yours they are light. If you are roughly at 11.5 port, id expect if yammy did them even (thats asking for alot lol) starboard will be at 12ish.

where do you find the info as to where they are supposed to be? Are you saying mine are a 1/4 inch off?

 

[Wicked92]

where do you find the info as to where they are supposed to be? Are you saying mine are a 1/4 inch off?

i wont know anything until i see what your starboard one is set at and that you are sure the steering wheel is straight or better yet the articulating keel. The boat is goint to center on the keel.

My nozzles are straight now as ive put the cobra jet steering back on for a test with the plates set full down, out of the way of the wake booster throwing water against the plate and visually seeing the disturbance behind the boat while surfing. Straight nozzles measure right at 11.75 each side. When yammy did the warranty correction on my boat on the crooked on delivery i got, they set them to 11.25 port and 12.25 starboard which is 1/2 on each cable. Until they release the service manual i wont know exactly where they are supposed to be but from previous searches going back to 2018 when surfpointe was added, 1/2" seems like the consensus.

Get your starboard measurement to see where yours are as delivered.

 

[Jim Davis]

Anyone come up with a solution for the speed control while surfing?

 

[Julian]

Mine works fine but is always 1-2 MPH short. So if I want to surf 10.5, I set it to 11.5 and then + plus into the exact number from there. It holds the speed fine. Are you guys saying it goes up and down trying to hit the speed???

@Wicked92 I'm not sure the measurement of those cables is the best way to determine the exact angle on the buckets - not saying it isn't either - but I can imagine those cables not all being the same. But you could also be simply measuring from the transom plate - which assuming the castings are all identical should be ok?

 

[Wicked92]

Mine works fine but is always 1-2 MPH short. So if I want to surf 10.5, I set it to 11.5 and then + plus into the exact number from there. It holds the speed fine. Are you guys saying it goes up and down trying to hit the speed???

@Wicked92 I'm not sure the measurement of those cables is the best way to determine the exact angle on the buckets - not saying it isn't either - but I can imagine those cables not all being the same. But you could also be simply measuring from the transom plate - which assuming the castings are all identical should be ok?

i based it off the service manual procedure. On say a 242se 2020 they say there should be 11.8" from pump plate to eyelet hole. Obviously a SE has straight nozzles and both would be set to 11.8. Mine with both straight after the CJS install were at 11.75. Its really not the cable length per say its more the pump plate to eyelet of the pump nozzle.

In regards to my speed control, the more ballast in the boat the worse the situation becomes. It seems like they set the cruise to be based off rpm increments for the + - on the assist instead of using the gps speed to be the target.

If i have the boat ballasted out with transom bag it will at times surge to try and gain a good chunk of speed if the difference is large....but its not consistent.

Again, its a very archaic control that needs better implementation. It would be interesting to see how Ridesteady targets a speed and what kinda PID control algorithm is going on.

 

[Julian]

i based it off the service manual procedure. On say a 242se 2020 they say there should be 11.8" from pump plate to eyelet hole. Obviously a SE has straight nozzles and both would be set to 11.8. Mine with both straight after the CJS install were at 11.75. Its really not the cable length per say its more the pump plate to eyelet of the pump nozzle.

In regards to my speed control, the more ballast in the boat the worse the situation becomes. It seems like they set the cruise to be based off rpm increments for the + - on the assist instead of using the gps speed to be the target.

If i have the boat ballasted out with transom bag it will at times surge to try and gain a good chunk of speed if the difference is large....but its not consistent.

Again, its a very archaic control that needs better implementation. It would be interesting to see how Ridesteady targets a speed and what kinda PID control algorithm is going on.

Mine doesn't vary at all, it holds GPS speed exactly even in turns. It used to have an error when it lost its GPS signal and would drop speed ... but I traced that down to a bar canbus connection at the tach. Here is a video of what it showed when this happened:

 

[Wicked92]

Mine doesn't vary at all, it holds GPS speed exactly even in turns. It used to have an error when it lost its GPS signal and would drop speed ... but I traced that down to a bar canbus connection at the tach. Here is a video of what it showed when this happened:

higher speeds arent an issue, its when the boat is dragging its ass trying to make a wave. Wake boarding its been fine and within a mph.

 

[Jim Davis]

yeah my 242xe never had a problem it's something with the new software on the 21's

 

[Wicked92]

yeah my 242xe never had a problem it's something with the new software on the 21's

242s also had the issue, theres a youtube video with a pro wakesurfer on a new 2017 242x and they experienced similar, having to set 3-4mph higher than target.

 

[GTBRMC]

I know nothing about these systems, but if tracks accurately with a constant offset, is there a calibration to address that?

 

[blueturtle]

My 255XD is exactly the same as Wicked92. It's extremely annoying especially since it should have been fixed by now.
It starts to have issues surfing with 100% ballast. Any additional weight and it gets worse. It doesn't matter what the preset speed is, it will only reach about 9.3 mph until you push the + button.