Another Fogging Post

[Phapcicle]

Howdy,

Just got done paying for the 10hr service and ""deluxe winterization"" at my local certified Yamaha dealer. I was told on the phone prior to the appt that they will fog the engine in addition to the 10hr service. I pick up my AR190 and notice the documentation has an X next to fogging the engine because it's an EFI engine. Walk back in and talk to the service rep and he says they don't fog any of their Yamaha engines because it can gunk up the valves... Thought that sounded odd considering the research I had done prior to purchasing so I called Yamaha corporate who said that, yes, they do recommend fogging for long term storage (they literally make EFI specific fogging fluid). Also called the out of state dealer I bought the boat from (TWL Marine in Oshkosh [absolutely cracked dealership, would recommend]) who stated that they do fog their boats (no longer fog individual cylinders, just thru the intake for 8 seconds) as well as another dealer within my state who said the same thing. So, won't be going to my local dealership for jack squat anymore, but I'm wondering how feasible it is to hook up a secondary gas tank so I can use the EFI fogging oil mixed with two gallons of gas. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[tdonoughue]

Perhaps it is a new definition of 'deluxe' with which I am not familiar...

Anyway... the EFI fogging oil says to put it into the gas? Would that not dilute it much more than the couple of squirts of gas that it gets mixed with when you put it in the intake? Also, putting it into the intake seems simpler.

 

[Phapcicle]

Perhaps it is a new definition of 'deluxe' with which I am not familiar...

Anyway... the EFI fogging oil says to put it into the gas? Would that not dilute it much more than the couple of squirts of gas that it gets mixed with when you put it in the intake? Also, putting it into the intake seems simpler.

Yeah, they really went the extra mile with the deluxe package... Put a call into their service manager so he can try to explain himself and I can get my money back.

EFI ENGINE STORAGE FOGGING OIL ACC-STORR-IT-32

EFI ENGINE STORAGE FOGGING OIL

www.simyamaha.com

Here's a link to the product. I know that dealership tech bulletin from the previous gen of engines gets kicked around here a lot, but the Maintenance Matters section on Yamaha's website specifically mentions this fogging product.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Where are you storing your boat during the off season?

That product sounds like something used for an outboard due to the mention of a portable fuel supply. Outboards have fuel pumps on the engines where as ours have the fuel pumps in the tanks.

Up to this point in my five years of boating and being on this site I do not believe I’ve ever heard of EFI specific fogging oil but there it is. Yamaha sells cans of fogging oil, https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-Origi...7900478267f3f44883&qid=1761485671&sr=8-3&th=1



be sure and get some of these to make it easier and avoid losing the short straw that comes with cans down in the cylinder.

Amazon.com

I know RIVA (and probably other companies) sells or sold a kit you can put on the intake runner ahead of the ETV (electronic throttle valve) to make fogging the intake tract very easy and convenient, just remove the plug and spray fogging oil into the tube. One of the FSH owners on this site who boats in Florida has these intake fogging kits on their boat, I asked about it when I saw it in pics he posted.

Going forward you can save yourself a lot of money and with a couple hours of your time by “winterizing” your boat yourself. All that’s necessary on these boats is to add fuel stabilizer to the gas tank before the last outing of the year so it mixes well with the fuel in the tank and is run through the fuel system. Leave the gas tank full over the off season. Follow the instructions in the manual and on the placards on the boat blowing out the water lock (muffler) when you come off the water the last time of the season for storage. Raise the bow as high as possible to assure the bilge is free of water. Fog the intake runner, pull the spark plugs and fog the cylinders per the instructions on the can of fogging spray. Raise the bow as high as possible to get any remaining water out, pull the clean out plug and spray with silicone spray and put back in upside down. Depending on where you’re storing your boat and whether or not you have an on board charger and electricity available, clearly mark the battery leads and follow the instructions in your manual and remove the battery and leave it on a smart charger, NOT A MAINTAINER during the off season. Be sure not to reverse the polarity on the battery leads when putting the battery back in or it could wreck the connext screen, no different than a car. That’s it, a couple hours of your time and your hundreds of dollars ahead.

Getting the 10 hour service done at the dealer is wise this assures warranty compliance. Going forward you can do the rest of the maintenance yourself and be in compliance, just save the receipts. Buy a service manual as that will help you in maintaining your boat, as well as the information available on this site. Buying an oil extractor and the oil and filters will be less than what the dealer charges to just change the oil, then you’ll just be buying the oil and filters going forward saving hundreds of dollars for each oil change.

 

[BumbleBee255]

Personally, I think fogging is a waste of time/money. I have never heard a good explanation of why boat motors need fogged and other summer season vehicles don't. I am a motorcycle guy (all types), and I have had dirt bikes that have seen as much or more water than these boat motors do. Never fogged a dirt bike.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Personally, I think fogging is a waste of time/money. I have never heard a good explanation of why boat motors need fogged and other summer season vehicles don't. I am a motorcycle guy (all types), and I have had dirt bikes that have seen as much or more water than these boat motors do. Never fogged a dirt bike.

Did you keep your dirt bikes outside in the winter and not use them for 6 months?

I don’t fog my boats engines because it spends the winter in a heated shop, but if it was to spend the winter outside then it would get fogging oil. Keep in mind there’s a muffler in our boats that retains water while the boat is just sitting.

 

[tdonoughue]

Personally, I think fogging is a waste of time/money. I have never heard a good explanation of why boat motors need fogged and other summer season vehicles don't. I am a motorcycle guy (all types), and I have had dirt bikes that have seen as much or more water than these boat motors do. Never fogged a dirt bike.

I think it depends on where in the world you are (how cold/humid it gets), your use profile, indoor vs outdoor, salt vs fresh and probably some things I am missing.

I am in the south. If it gets down to 15 degrees here, it is only for a few days and then we are back at 60 or 70. I am on fresh water, so no salt spray, etc. I frequently run the boat in November, December, February... And it is stored inside, albeit in a humid environment. Thus, I don't fog.

Were I on the coast, boating in salt spray, putting up the boat wrapped all winter, storing it outside, etc., I might well fog. I really can't knock someone who spends as much as we do on a boat and then wants to spend such a relatively little amount of money/time to keep it running nicely. But fortunately, that is why we have places like this to educate ourselves, collect the different views and make our decisions (hopefully learning everyone's outcomes).

 

[BumbleBee255]

Did you keep your dirt bikes outside in the winter and not use them for 6 months?

I don’t fog my boats engines because it spends the winter in a heated shop, but if it was to spend the winter outside then it would get fogging oil. Keep in mind there’s a muffler in our boats that retains water while the boat is just sitting.

Bikes do sit idle for six months at my house (fair weather rider), but not outside. My boat doesn't sit outside either. Fogging the motor does nothing for water jackets in the muffler.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Bikes do sit idle for six months at my house (fair weather rider), but not outside. My boat doesn't sit outside either. Fogging the motor does nothing for water jackets in the muffler.

It’s the moisture in the water locks and how it is sitting there and a direct line with the exhaust valves…

 

[Phapcicle]

Where are you storing your boat during the off season?

That product sounds like something used for an outboard due to the mention of a portable fuel supply. Outboards have fuel pumps on the engines where as ours have the fuel pumps in the tanks.

Up to this point in my five years of boating and being on this site I do not believe I’ve ever heard of EFI specific fogging oil but there it is. Yamaha sells cans of fogging oil, https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-Original-Yamalube-ACC-STORE-RI-TE-Fogging/dp/B0CLPF74HB/ref=sr_1_3?adgrpid=1330409644075568&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.ORW6-KGavZFPseanB5TmHcjjzmL7C_NcATspXppreqV-MjcmZ4Nzov85FFbZ0OcRCrtJIFfveKcDFd_uSRrtN25DsnRyZEBdDmJvEL9yBcv_9qVJwbTih83_Gph3DKskoqoqb7Z49ItaovW850s-Id4SizA5wuyP9M_giRy6z9V_eXCD8BbbmpTtt27tqjNjvRbjHWBdUO_8KmskZHLZ2fddQY0VR7FYw_kiyqb20LcrEQfRIbzmMZk4VIqMYF0lyw_cI7ms43jZWjvzU96CM4pvZokwF1Gzy3PsUOn-vhY.FpyuMfrvt4OZeGfTkrlL01zsLTfE1zcIQVr5Tbl-J28&dib_tag=se&hvadid=83150850980480&hvbmt=bp&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=44450&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=p&hvtargid=kwd-83150967207895:loc-190&hydadcr=6430_13218871&keywords=yamaha+stor+rite+engine+fogging+oil&mcid=95fed100e23333aeba07d781d14cb265&msclkid=b839ea99d0af167900478267f3f44883&qid=1761485671&sr=8-3&th=1

View attachment 240668

be sure and get some of these to make it easier and avoid losing the short straw that comes with cans down in the cylinder.

View attachment 240667

Amazon.com

I know RIVA (and probably other companies) sells or sold a kit you can put on the intake runner ahead of the ETV (electronic throttle valve) to make fogging the intake tract very easy and convenient, just remove the plug and spray fogging oil into the tube. One of the FSH owners on this site who boats in Florida has these intake fogging kits on their boat, I asked about it when I saw it in pics he posted.

Going forward you can save yourself a lot of money and with a couple hours of your time by “winterizing” your boat yourself. All that’s necessary on these boats is to add fuel stabilizer to the gas tank before the last outing of the year so it mixes well with the fuel in the tank and is run through the fuel system. Leave the gas tank full over the off season. Follow the instructions in the manual and on the placards on the boat blowing out the water lock (muffler) when you come off the water the last time of the season for storage. Raise the bow as high as possible to assure the bilge is free of water. Fog the intake runner, pull the spark plugs and fog the cylinders per the instructions on the can of fogging spray. Raise the bow as high as possible to get any remaining water out, pull the clean out plug and spray with silicone spray and put back in upside down. Depending on where you’re storing your boat and whether or not you have an on board charger and electricity available, clearly mark the battery leads and follow the instructions in your manual and remove the battery and leave it on a smart charger, NOT A MAINTAINER during the off season. Be sure not to reverse the polarity on the battery leads when putting the battery back in or it could wreck the connext screen, no different than a car. That’s it, a couple hours of your time and your hundreds of dollars ahead.

Getting the 10 hour service done at the dealer is wise this assures warranty compliance. Going forward you can do the rest of the maintenance yourself and be in compliance, just save the receipts. Buy a service manual as that will help you in maintaining your boat, as well as the information available on this site. Buying an oil extractor and the oil and filters will be less than what the dealer charges to just change the oil, then you’ll just be buying the oil and filters going forward saving hundreds of dollars for each oil change.

Appreciate the help, I did plenty of research on winterization prior to buying the boat and am prepared to do it myself, I just figured I'd just have the dealership do it this time around considering I already had to cover my ass by doing the certified 10hr maintenance. It'll be stored outside under a covered carport in Michigan. It is a bit frustrating that the only documentation on the matter is a dealership memo from a decade ago, the owners manual doesn't even mention fogging at all (Which I presume the service manager will reference once I get him on the phone).

As for the EFI fogging oil, you can find it in the Maintenance Matters PDF on the Yamaha Boats website. If the fuel pumps are located in the gas tank then I guess I'm just cooked this time around and will use the traditional fogging oil thru the intake as both the other dealerships had mentioned (neither of them pull plugs anymore).

 

[drewkaree]

Appreciate the help, I did plenty of research on winterization prior to buying the boat and am prepared to do it myself, I just figured I'd just have the dealership do it this time around considering I already had to cover my ass by doing the certified 10hr maintenance.

There's no need to CYA with any "certified" maintenance, if you're referring to your boat's warranty. Unless and until it can be proven that your personal maintenance is responsible for anything that goes wrong (such as not even doing the maintenance), that's something a lawyer would be able to easily refute. Keep records, receipts, pics, anything you can think of to mark and demonstrate that the proper things were done according to the owner's manual, and THAT'S the CYA you'll need if there's ever a warranty issue.

It'll be stored outside under a covered carport in Michigan. It is a bit frustrating that the only documentation on the matter is a dealership memo from a decade ago, the owners manual doesn't even mention fogging at all (Which I presume the service manager will reference once I get him on the phone).

If your owner's manual doesn't mention it, I'd reach out to Yamaha corporate again to question this item. I'd also make certain to mention your conversation with corporate to the dealership, and include the name of the person you spoke with at corporate - you DID remember to jot down that info while you were on the phone with them, correct? If not, make sure to do so when you call them about the omission in the owner's manual, and what they said. There's no reason to expect that person to be employed, or remember the conversation, but it's always good to have tidbits like that in your records.

As for the EFI fogging oil, you can find it in the Maintenance Matters PDF on the Yamaha Boats website. If the fuel pumps are located in the gas tank then I guess I'm just cooked this time around and will use the traditional fogging oil thru the intake as both the other dealerships had mentioned (neither of them pull plugs anymore).

Looking at your attachment, it seems to be something new they've come up with to run it through the tank for some reason. It also mentions fogging through the intake as well, and I'd print that out to keep for your records, as well as point this document out to the dealership when you speak with them, including the product recommended BY YAMAHA in this documentation. I'd be sure to ask them why, as a "certified dealer", they're not following a recommended procedure straight from the documentation produced by corporate, and ask SPECIFICALLY, what their rationale is OTHER than "it gunks up the valves", since Yamaha specifically mentions that this is something to be done, as outlined in your nice documentation there.

If all they tell you - again - is that's really the only reason, I'd follow up with "why does Yamaha sell such products, if your procedure runs counter to what Yamaha corporate advises?" Sounds like you're being given a brush-off reason, for such a small step that was skipped - at undoubtedly great cost to you.


It sounds like the fogging oil through the fuel tank is being used as an injector cleaner or lubricant, similar to some other products. Reading the product description, it sounds like it's a simple combination of two of their existing products - "Part # ACC-STORR-IT-32 Special lubricant that helps to protect metals against rust and corrosion during off season storage conditions, specially designed to mixed with a portable fuel supply to effectively treat an EFI engine cylinders, pistons and valves. Contains Fuel Stabilizer and Ring Free for the fuel remaining in the fuel system. Helps protect pistons, cylinder walls, and valves from the harmful effects of moisture, saltwater, and combustion acids during up to 1 year of storage. Mixes with fuel to distribute protective oil equally to all cylinders of single-throttle-body, fuel-injected two- and four-stroke engines. Contains Yamalube Fuel Stabilizer and Ring Free to condition fuel in engine during storage."

If that's indeed what it is, at the price it's selling for right now at that link, $11.45, there's clearly not very much of the two products they mention that are supposedly included, as those two separate bottles are also listed under Related Products at $13.55 for the Fuel Stabilizer, and $69.30 for the Ring Free. Sounds like a VERY small amount of both items, mixed with some other combustible carrier. It's labeled as a "maintenance" product, and likely not mentioned whatsoever in your owner's manual. If that's indeed the case, add some StarTron/Stabil/SeaFoam to the tank if you can access the boat. Run it on the hose, and fog the intake according to your document you found, and call it good for the season.

I doubt you're going to get your money back on the "deluxe winterization", but maybe you can get some sort of compensation other than the brush-off it seems you're getting right now.

 

[drewkaree]

Personally, I think fogging is a waste of time/money. I have never heard a good explanation of why boat motors need fogged and other summer season vehicles don't. I am a motorcycle guy (all types), and I have had dirt bikes that have seen as much or more water than these boat motors do. Never fogged a dirt bike.

My manual recommends it. I never bothered to call the manufacturer to find out why they recommend it. It seems other models and years have different recommendations. That's not an explanation for why, it's just an explanation for why I'll do it.

Good luck to you. It sounds like you're prepared to accept the outcome, whatever happens. I'm sure there's someone out there with some adverse situation that wishes they'd done it when things went sideways for them, whatever fashion that took. The few seconds and cash it costs seems trivial, given the cost of the machines we enjoy. I have a friend who just got their boat this year, who feels the same way about fogging as you do. I haven't heard from him about how his winterization went, but I know how his outlook will be if something happens.