Conversion to LiFePo batteries

[mrcleanr6]

yeah good sale. i wish i was ready for them but unfortunately not yet. i need 6 of the 8d batteries so this would have saved me 1800 bucks. hopefully they will have one next year.

 

[zipper]

Everybody is having a sale...Dakota Lithium.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

yeah good sale. i wish i was ready for them but unfortunately not yet. i need 6 of the 8d batteries so this would have saved me 1800 bucks. hopefully they will have one next year.

Im sure they will! One of their main focus is on that sort of energy.

I’m rolling into season two with the BB batteries and I’m still very satisfied! Their customer service is beyond great.

Im going to add another two Victron Energy IP67 chargers to my boat in the battery compartment, one for the BB 100Ah house battery and one for the Interstate G24 AGM start battery, I really like tgese chargers as they are so configurable and they do not get nearly as hot as the MinnKota chargers I have / had. I’d like to put them where the MinnKota charger is in the head compartment but Victron doesn’t want you extending the DC leads.

 

[TommyMcK]

What a great thread! It doesn't remotely apply to me, but it's a really interesting topic nonetheless, with a bunch of great information.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

What a great thread! It doesn't remotely apply to me, but it's a really interesting topic nonetheless, with a bunch of great information.

Thanks @TommyMcK! I did my best to chronicle my journey on this so that others wouldn’t have to do all the homework that I did.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

This is coming spring of 2023 from Battle Born.

Introducing the All-New Dragonfly IntelLigence

Dragonfly IntelLigence delivers smart lithium battery communication technology, available in Battle Born Batteries and new accessories.

dragonflyenergy.com

I don’t believe any other lithium battery system in this price range is ABYC compliant. As well there battery com system appears to be cellular based instead of Bluetooth based, leading the way, again.

 

[mrcleanr6]

i believe the dakota lithium batteries claim to be abyc but that is one of those companies i am not sold on yet. they are made in china and you go on the website and they have little american flags everywhere to give you the idea they are made here. a little deceiving. the cells themselves are prob ok but i have yet to see a teardown showing their bms on their larger batteries. that is one of the most critical components and may times cant handle the current these companies claim. battleborn has a fairly beefy bms. its not a lithionics BUT its not bad for an internal bms.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

i believe the dakota lithium batteries claim to be abyc but that is one of those companies i am not sold on yet. they are made in china and you go on the website and they have little american flags everywhere to give you the idea they are made here. a little deceiving. the cells themselves are prob ok but i have yet to see a teardown showing their bms on their larger batteries. that is one of the most critical components and may times cant handle the current these companies claim. battleborn has a fairly beefy bms. its not a lithionics BUT its not bad for an internal bms.

Agree with extreme emphasis !

1-DL claims to be based in Grand Forks North Dakota. Every search I made I was not able to find them there.

2-They are definitely made in China.

3-When I wanted to talk to a tech person I could not, email only. If you want to buy batteries there is a cheerful girl in Seattle to assist you.

4- Any tech questions were email and would take 48 hours for a response and the answers I got back were limited, evasive, and ignorant.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

So real world test of the smart shunt with the Solix on (2.5A of draw) at 6500 rpm’s was 20+ amps…I think the house battery was around 95% charged.

Later in the day the house battery had dropped to around 90% SOC, I was using the engines at idle for a while to help the trolling motor due to some high afternoon winds, it didn’t seem like it was all that long before the house battery was fully charged and as I turned all the accessories, live well fill, aerator, courtesy lights, Nav lights, and both bilge pumps there was no flow out of the house battery…. Why these boats don’t come with a set up like this is truly a shame.

I’m stoked. It appears that the marriage of the LiFePO4 battery and the charging systems on our boats is a great match.

 

[OntheWater77]

I have a very similar 210 FSH setup to @FSH 210 Sport and am dealing with problems from my DL 36V 100A trolling motor battery bank already after only 2 seasons on them. Wish I would have done the homework you have done before I made the DL purchase! I was under the impression the the Victron Shunt would not work for measuring/monitoring the 3 battery array, I take it yours is working as you had hoped and you can monitor the state of your total 36V power supply? Also, kudos to figuring out how to get a Lithium to work for a house battery along with the DVSR. I have been running 2 AGM group 31s for House & Starting and am looking to make this change myself. Thanks for doing all the heavy lifting, I will be copying.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Sorry to hear that you are having issues with your DL battery.. what is going on with them?

Yes the Victron Shunt works great! The only issue I’ve ever had is that once there was a forced firmware update before I could use it that day which delayed my departure for a while.

You are welcome and I’m glad you found the thread useful! There was a lot of help from other members, @mrcleanr6 that got me pointed in the correct direction and asking questions. I had no idea I was going to take such a trip down the rabbit hole but so far all that work was worthwhile. I also highly recommend the Victron Energy chargers as well, the 25 A output gets the charging done quickly without decreasing the life of the Battle Born batteries, the BB techs will help you set up the Victron chargers, super easy to do, it’ll take about 10-15 mins max.

Having the 100Ah LiFePO4 house battery is really great! I’ve barely put a dent in it most of the time, and it pairs well with our charging systems as it soaks up electrons like a damp soaks up water. Put a shunt on your house battery too and you can watch how much current is leaving the battery and how much charge current comes into the battery once you‘ve drawn it down some and then go for a cruise… Max output on our alternators is 3500 rpm and above, you can expect to see roughly 23-25Amps initially, then it will taper off to around 19 or 20 while underway.

If you have any questions don’t hesitate to ask!

 

[OntheWater77]

So my DL issue is an odd one and one that I am still currently diagnosing and it might end up being a charger issue. I currently run 3X DL 12V 100A for my trolling motor and run a NOCO 10amp X 3bank charger for these. This setup has worked well for me for 2 seasons, but now one of the 3 DL batteries will not register above a 25% charge on the NOCO onboard charger. I have swapped the supposed faulty battery out to other banks of the same NOCO charger and it continues to read only 25% charged after 24hrs + of charging. Now here's the odd stuff: When the problematic DB battery is put on and entirely different NOCO charger, it reads at a full charge and when I swap a different DL battery to the same bank of the 3X NOCO charger that previously read only 25% it reads at full charge. I have tested the DL battery on a multimeter and get 12.5 off the charger, so it seems to be achieving a full charge. I was thinking this might be a faulty NOCO charger and I have spoken with their customer service and am in the process of uninstalling this charger and shipping it back to them for further troubleshooting over the winter but this has me scratching my head as to why the charger would read at only 25% for 1 specific DL battery, but it seems to be full on all other measures. DL customer support has been available via email and says that as long as the battery ready 12.5V and is placing blame on the charger and really has not offered any additional troubleshooting or support.

 

[Bottom Bracket]

Pretty sure the dakota batteries are about the cheapest lifepoo battery you can buy. For a while My fb marketplace promo adds had them for $35. Reverse polarity in a cell is no joke.
Not sure when the new Solid State batteries will hit the consumer market.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

So my DL issue is an odd one and one that I am still currently diagnosing and it might end up being a charger issue. I currently run 3X DL 12V 100A for my trolling motor and run a NOCO 10amp X 3bank charger for these. This setup has worked well for me for 2 seasons, but now one of the 3 DL batteries will not register above a 25% charge on the NOCO onboard charger. I have swapped the supposed faulty battery out to other banks of the same NOCO charger and it continues to read only 25% charged after 24hrs + of charging. Now here's the odd stuff: When the problematic DB battery is put on and entirely different NOCO charger, it reads at a full charge and when I swap a different DL battery to the same bank of the 3X NOCO charger that previously read only 25% it reads at full charge. I have tested the DL battery on a multimeter and get 12.5 off the charger, so it seems to be achieving a full charge. I was thinking this might be a faulty NOCO charger and I have spoken with their customer service and am in the process of uninstalling this charger and shipping it back to them for further troubleshooting over the winter but this has me scratching my head as to why the charger would read at only 25% for 1 specific DL battery, but it seems to be full on all other measures. DL customer support has been available via email and says that as long as the battery ready 12.5V and is placing blame on the charger and really has not offered any additional troubleshooting or support. View attachment 211260

I thought that the DL batteries came with an 8 A charger? If so have you tried that charger?
I take it your NOCO charger is set to lithium or AGM if the charger is not a lithium one?
12.5 volts on a lithium battery is essentially depleted, at 100% the battery should be 13.6 volts or close to that. The chart below is from Battle Born, the voltage / charge level should be about the same since the chemistry is the same.


I went to DL’s web page and couldn’t find a chart like the bb one but there is one section on this page that states level of charge etc..,and it appears to be the same as the BB one.

https://dakotalithium.com/2021/09/22/how-to-charge-dakota-lithium-and-lifepo4-batteries/

Have you checked your voltmeter on a known source to verify its reading accurately? I took my decades old FLUKE 77 multimeter to an electronics shop and they used my voltmeter on a battery, then used the shop voltmeter and they read the same.

Im sorry to hear that DL’s tech support has not been that helpful. One of the main reasons I shied away from DL was that I could not talk to a person in their tech section, I had to wait for an email response within 1-2 business days, and when I was emailing the DL tech support with questions it took two business days, same reason I shied from Anti Gravity batteries, and when I did get a response they either did not answer my questions or gave me wrong answers. The only two battery companies that would answer the phone for technical support were ReLion and BB, but the ReLion heated batteries could not be placed in series, big thanks to @Can0n11 for catching that and alerting me to that fact. If I’m going to be laying out $800 bucks, or less for a LiFePO4 battery then I better be able to TALK to a tech CSR that is knowledgeable, and at BB all the CSR‘s are tech reps in addition to sales.

If you have the DL charger(s) try putting the DL chargers on the batteries to see what happens, then take a voltage reading with your tested multimeter (so the DL techs cannot say it’s your multimeter, and be sure to say that you had your multimeter checked at an electronics shop) If it’s not 13.6 or the charger doesn’t go to green then contact DL tech support and see what they say then.

From the sound of it, I’d be suspicious of the NOCO charger and here’s why. You are placing the 25% battery on a different bank of said charger and it reads 25%, then you place a fully charged (?) battery on the bad bank and it reads full. It could be the battery but it’s sounding more like a charger since using a different charger shows the 25% battery is full, but, the real test of course is charging a partially discharged battery to see what happens. I initially used a MinnKota PC MK330 10A three bank charger set on AGM (the charger that came with the boats dealer installed trolling motor battery bank) when I first got my BB batteries and I was still having the 12-14 hour charge times due to the MK 330’s algorithm, and on several occasions the center bank would take longer than the two outer banks to come to full charge so after further research I went with the Victron Energy 25A IP67 charger, now my batteries charge in 4 hours. I thought, The 100Ah lithium batteries can charge at 50A’s, so why charge at 10A’s when I can charge at 25A’s? And for my use I needed that much faster recharge time, getting home and getting the batteries on the charger at 2200 hours (10:00 pm) then wanting to head back out the next day at 0400-0500 (4-5:00 AM) and the batteries not being fully charged and having to wait to leave to let the batteries finish charging was frustrating.

Im hopeful that all of this is just the NOCO charger.

 

[OntheWater77]

It think my voltage reading in my prior post was flawed. Here is the Q/As I had back and forth with the DL tech support once I used the standard single battery charger direct from DL. Upon giving them these readings they said the battery was good and blame the NOCO charger going bad. What I find odd is how a charger can all the sudden "not like a specific battery"

- Voltage of the battery before attempting a full charge on the DL OEM charger: 12.5 V
- Voltage of the battery after attempting a full charge on the DL charger: 14.52V

- Voltage coming out of the DL charger not connected to the battery: 14.52V

What color is the LED on the DL charger before and after connecting to the battery? Charger light is GREEN before connecting to the battery and GREEN after connecting to the battery.

What does your DL charger label say: model number, volts/amps? Model: DAKOTA12V10A

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

It think my voltage reading in my prior post was flawed. Here is the Q/As I had back and forth with the DL tech support once I used the standard single battery charger direct from DL. Upon giving them these readings they said the battery was good and blame the NOCO charger going bad. What I find odd is how a charger can all the sudden "not like a specific battery"

- Voltage of the battery before attempting a full charge on the DL OEM charger: 12.5 V
- Voltage of the battery after attempting a full charge on the DL charger: 14.52V

- Voltage coming out of the DL charger not connected to the battery: 14.52V

What color is the LED on the DL charger before and after connecting to the battery? Charger light is GREEN before connecting to the battery and GREEN after connecting to the battery.

What does your DL charger label say: model number, volts/amps? Model: DAKOTA12V10A

So after talking to you tonight I wanted to make a few additions to your statements above.

- Voltage of the battery before attempting a full charge on the DL OEM charger: 12.5 V
- Voltage of the battery attempting a full charge on the DL charger: 14.52V
-Voltage of the battery after removing the DL charger: 12.5

To me, this indicates a bad battery. Hopefully armed with that info DL will issue you a RA and packing slip and have you send the battery back for a warranty replacement battery.

 

[Bottom Bracket]

Pull all 3, Vatozone for a load test, replace all 3 with 1 quality 36v and a charger recommended by the battery manufacturer. mount the new battery in the starboard bow area.
Back on the water.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Pull all 3, Vatozone for a load test, replace all 3 with 1 quality 36v and a charger recommended by the battery manufacturer. mount the new battery in the starboard bow area.
Back on the water.

What?

What is vatozone?
What kind of a load test?
Throw away two good batteries and $2400 and spend another $1600 on a 60Ah 36V?
Install a 36V with only 60% of the Ah he has now?
In the fish box in the bow? Why would he do that when there is a dedicated battery shelf in the head compartment?
Use a 36V battery charger that isn’t rated for a damp atmosphere, is not ignition rated, is only 8A instead of the 10A of the NOCO which is IP65 and ignition rated, unless you opt $300 extra for the 18A charger, and neither is intended to be mounted in the boat?

 

[BlueBulls]

they are made in china and you go on the website and they have little american flags everywhere to give you the idea they are made here. a little deceiving.

I've been shopping for a lithium golf cart battery for several weeks now and have spent a lot of time looking and researching the major manufacturers. Virtually all of the available LiFePO4 batteries are imported from China no matter the number of American flags - including Dakota Lithium. Here is the battery Dakota Lithium imports for less than $200 each:

https://www.globalsources.com/LiFePO4-battery/battery-1171061931p.htm

Add a custom case color and choice of battery post and 'voila' - $600 gross profit per battery:

https://dakotalithium.com/product/dakota-lithium-12v-100ah-deep-cycle-lifepo4-marine-solar-battery/

You can connect the dots in the corporate shell game from Dakota Lithium to Clean Republic LLC - who imports primarily from SHENZHEN FBTECH ELECTRONICS LTD and is formerly classified as a "Foreign Limited Liability Company" with principals including Yong Hou and Xu Ning. The touted 'factory' in North Dakota is a lab at the University of North Dakota at which Yong Hou was once a seemingly legitimate professor - but he is no longer listed on the faculty directory. Dr. Hu seems to have done legitimate research in the field and his past work is alluded to be in the batteries in the same way they are alluded to be American-made - but in the end they are all imported from China with the same technology as everybody else.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I've been shopping for a lithium golf cart battery for several weeks now and have spent a lot of time looking and researching the major manufacturers. Virtually all of the available LiFePO4 batteries are imported from China no matter the number of American flags - including Dakota Lithium. Here is the battery Dakota Lithium imports for less than $200 each:

https://www.globalsources.com/LiFePO4-battery/battery-1171061931p.htm

Add a custom case color and choice of battery post and 'voila' - $600 gross profit per battery:

https://dakotalithium.com/product/dakota-lithium-12v-100ah-deep-cycle-lifepo4-marine-solar-battery/

You can connect the dots in the corporate shell game from Dakota Lithium to Clean Republic LLC - who imports primarily from SHENZHEN FBTECH ELECTRONICS LTD and is formerly classified as a "Foreign Limited Liability Company" with principals including Yong Hou and Xu Ning. The touted 'factory' in North Dakota is a lab at the University of North Dakota at which Yong Hou was once a seemingly legitimate professor - but he is no longer listed on the faculty directory. Dr. Hu seems to have done legitimate research in the field and his past work is alluded to be in the batteries in the same way they are alluded to be American-made - but in the end they are all imported from China with the same technology as everybody else.

A HUGE THANK YOU for figuring that out!!!!!!!!

When I was researching batteries I looked into their Grand Rapids ND roots, couldn’t find them anywhere in town, even looked at chamber of commerce and asked locals if they had ever heard of or had seen any office buildings there, the answer was always no. They are liars. The only American made LiFePO4 batteries are Battle Born in Sparks Nevada, entirely made in America.

Im hopeful that @OntheWater77 will be able to get a warranty battery from them and carry on.