EV discussion - hate or love?

[Julian]

@Julian @BlkGS

Made the long-ish drive to Toronto yesterday morning. Had scheduled a Demo Drive with an R1S at the service center there. Was ~2.5hrs north of us, and involved ~30min wait to get across the border into Canada. Drove the Rivian. Had lunch. Then drove home. 7-ish hours out of the house for ~45min with the SUV.

Now, I need to preface the interaction with "I googled the shit out of this thing" before I got there. So I already knew, and it was fresh in mind, how to operate most of the interface, most of the controls, and had a really good idea about the capability. Moreso, likely, than any other vehicle I've ever considered buying. I mean, I watched an hour long video that walked through the ENTIRE user interface on both screens Saturday morning. It's absurd really.......However, before I could bring myself to plunk down any cash, especially for something that retails for almost $100k, I had to drive one. I had to know if there were blind spots, if the seats weren't comfy, if the steering wheel blocking the dash screen was really an issue or not. How does it park? How does it "feel". All of those things aren't possible to understand through reviews, and online research and all of that. I have NO idea how someone spends this kind of money on something sight unseen. SO......on to my thoughts.

This is going to be long, I'm wordy, sorry in advance. I'll try to put a TL;DR at the bottom.

We drove a Gen 1 R1S. Blue with the 21in street tires. No idea what size the pack was. had 70% charge when we showed up. Drove it like 30km and used 1% I think. I didn't pay a ton of attention to that part honestly. Couple things really stood out to me beyond what normal reviews can tell you.

The good.

• Holy god it's effing fast. I don't know the HP, but it jumped off a stoplight fast enough to scare the wife into screaming. Was pretty absurd.
• One pedal driving is neat. Was interesting to drive around town without using the brake pedal. Will take some getting used to, but overall it was pretty good.
• The driving presence was interesting. Felt like a "small Tahoe". Large hood and high seating position was very different from my lowered Q7. It didn't feel as big and hard to park as a Tahoe, but it wasn't nearly as nimble as the Q7 is with it's 4WS.
• Overall quality felt pretty great. It's on par, from an initial take, with my Audi. The doors shut solidly, the console didn't creak or squeak. Trim panels seemed to fit well and were well attached. Materials were good to great regardless if they are real or not.
• It was a pleasure to drive overall. Felt premium, rode premium, and looked the part. Tons of power available, all the tech worked as expected, and it presented as a generally nice car. It felt more like a $75-80k car than my buddies Model 3 Performance.
• Air suspension was FAST. Not like old school hydraulics fast, but it raised/lowered in just a few seconds when adjusted. The Audi you can't hardly notice/feel. The Rivian was very quick and responsive.
• The interface in general was really good. I thought I would hate the giant screen, but it grew on me pretty quickly. We pulled into a covered coin wash to try and find somewhere dark, and turned the screens way down. No idea how this will work for me on a dark highway at night, but it's not as harsh as I expected for certain.
• The "dealership experience" was phenomenal. There was ZERO, and I mean ZERO discussion on price, income, or any of the other crap involved with working a deal to buy one. I was met by an enthusiastic employee that just wanted to show me the vehicle. He didn't care how much money I made, or if I was financing, or any of that crap. I seriously can't convey how refreshing this part of the experience was. Answered questions, made good observations, and was generally great to be around. This part was amazing, best experience with an OEM in my 43 years on this planet.

The bad

• The seat is pretty terrible. There is a style line that lands just under my shoulder blades. I'm unsure if this would cause any pain during a long road trip, but it was noticeable right out of the gate, and over ~30min in the vehicle, it never went away. I'm 6'2" tall with a long torso, so I suspect this doesn't affect many people.
• One pedal driving is hard to manage while turning and parking. lead to a kind of jerky experience. I suspected this would go away over time, but it wasn't immediately intuitive. Kind of like driving a jetboat I think. it's not bad really, but very different than what I'm used to.
• The roof doesn't open. WTF kind of poor decision is this from an "adventure" style company like this. Huge miss IMO, but I think I'm squarely in the minority here. Either way, I can't decide if this is a deal breaker for me or not. It very well could be.
• Suspension was VERY stiff. Even on the softest setting available, it was harsher than I liked. I'm told the Gen 2 SUV's have significantly improved this. It was OK for me, but likely too stiff for the rest of the family. Didn't notice a big change between settings either.
• Whos dumbass idea what it to adjust the vents on the screen? Seriously, this is a HUGE miss IMO. It took forever to find a setting I liked, then when I wanted to move it again I couldn't do it while moving because of the super stiff suspension and bouncy city streets. This is beyond a dumb decision IMO. Likely not a deal breaker though.
• No android auto......I've gotten used to that interface, would have been nice to keep it. Not a deal breaker, but a bummer in general I think. I'm sure integration with charging stops and other systems is the hold back here, but still. womp womp.
• No dealer network to rely on. There is a service center about 35miles from me here in Buffalo, but I'm not sold on the support there. Lots of horror stories mixed with a lot of great service stories as well. Not sure how to feel there.

Overall, I came away with mixed feelings. I was expecting to come home and be all "I have to get one right now", but I'm not. I'm also not coming home with a "Screw that, no way" attitude either. It's a good SUV, and I think it's likely worth the money. They're offering some really great lease deals right now, which has me leaning that way. $1k/mo is high, but I can't touch any other brand new SUV with these features (EV or not) for that money. Tahoe/Yukons are going to be in the $1.5k/mo lease. New Sequoia as $1.4k on the website this morning. So, getting a premium SUV with a 3rd row for this price, honestly isn't a terrible deal IMO, EV portion aside.

I'm going to go drive a Silverado EV, as well as a Hummer EV before I decide where I'm going to land. Might drive a Lightning as well. I don't think I want the Kia EV9 (based on styling and experience recently with the SanteFe's interior), and I don't want a Mercedes EV either. Would consider an eTron (like a Q8 or similar), but no third row and rough depreciation doesn't help it. Not much else out there in EV's that can tow. Kind of want to stick to an SUV over a pickup, but the Silverado or Lightning might sway me one way or the other.

Speaking of towing. I'm looking at the 2nd Gen R1S with the Max battery pack and the Dual Motor Performance on 22in street wheels. They claim a 410mi range, so about 328 usable with 20% reserve. Assume 50% range while towing and we're around 164mi of what I'm calling "round trip boat range". With our move to Buffalo, that will get us to most of the lakes around here on a single charge. There is DCFC on the way to all of them except lake Erie (which is only 6mi away), so I think the move has helped on that front. Also range has come up, and infrastructure has improved since we had these discussion 2yrs ago when these trucks were first coming on the scene. Also, the only major road trip we plan on doing is Buffalo to Louisville. ABRP says we can make that in 9hrs with 2 stops for charging at ~30min each. That's pretty spot on with what we've already done about 6 times this year, so I don't really see that as a major inconvenience. Again, improvements in range and infrastructure are breaking some new and old roadblocks here.

TL;DR. I demo drove a Rivian. Customer experience was great. I didn't love it so much I have to order one today, I also didn't hate it enough to say "now way".

Vehicles with only a screen and zero buttons are not on my list...touch screens are awesome, but there is nothing like a dedicated hard button for: AC, turn signals, stereo controls, seat coolers/heaters.

We rarely open the roof on our Q7.

I'm curious about when Chevy will make an EV large SUV.

Saw an ID Buzz in Iceland....looks good in person.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Vehicles with only a screen and zero buttons are not on my list...touch screens are awesome, but there is nothing like a dedicated hard button for: AC, turn signals, stereo controls, seat coolers/heaters.

We rarely open the roof on our Q7.

I'm curious about when Chevy will make an EV large SUV.

Saw an ID Buzz in Iceland....looks good in person.

They ought to make the interior engineers who design these cars actually drive them for an extended period of time! I agree that the perfect combination is some touch screen and some hard buttons!

I never thought I needed an opening roof, until I bought my current truck. I like to open the moonroof to vent the cab from the heat on hot days when I first start the A/C. Also, like to drive with the moonroof open, instead of the windows, on those nice days when I don’t want to drive with the noisy windows down.

Jim

 

[2kwik4u]

I'm with @Jim_in_Delaware here, I drive with the roof open about 75-80% of the time. Road trips and interstate time it's closed, and active rain it's closed. Most of my commuting, year round, it's open. Love a cold day with the roof open and windows cracked, seat warmers on an heater on low. Crisp air is great.

 

[BlkGS]

A lot of your complaints are stuff that has unfortunately become pervasive in EVs, and it's straight up cost cutting. The glass roof that doesn't open is a prime example, saves money by not having a motor and a track. Putting controls in the screen also saves money by not having to have custom switchgear made. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't like obvious cheap outs in my new expensive ass car.

I had the same kinda feeling about the speed with the lightning. That instant torque is something thats kind of surprising. It's cool, but honestly I think it'd get kind of annoying, especially if you live in places where running a red light is common.

One pedal driving makes no sense to me. I want to be able to module my braking force. Maybe I'm a control freak, or just a freak in general, but I want to have control of how fast I stop at all times.

The next 12 months are going to be interesting for EVs. There's been a huge drop in demand, and the overall market seems to not be growing quickly. There's also a TON of new offerings coming, Wagoneer S I think is going to be a pretty compelling offering overall, then you're gonna have the Blazer EV, plus a bunch of them that I haven't looked at and just know they're coming.

I think all these new entrants are going to totally change that segment over the next 12 months. And by that I mean they're gonna send prices CRASHING down. I wouldn't be surprised if we see prices down by 10k or more over the next 12 months as each manufacturer fights for a piece of a pie that's not growing as quickly as expected and is too small for everyone. I feel like buying an EV right now is throwing money away, because you're gonna get CRUSHED with depreciation and lower prices.

And then Ramcharger will come out, which I still think is gonna completely change the game. All the sudden outside of some very niche use cases, the idea of a battery only vehicle without a way to on board charge is going to sound totally stupid. Especially for larger vehicles that would be for a family, or towing, or a road trip. Something like model 3 or some other small, inexpensive city car, sure. But anything that's like, a real full sized family vehicle like the EV9, or lightning... They're just going to seem totally pointless (rightfully so) when you've got 100 miles.of plug in range and 700 with the generator.

Ford and GM are both rushing to get PHEV versions of f150/Silverado and expedition/Tahoe out in the next year or two. That's going to be a big market.

 

[2kwik4u]

@BlkGS A quick note on one pedal driving.......You absolutely modulate the braking force. You just do it by lifting the foot instead of moving to a different pedal. Just "stepping off" the accelerator would put your nose on the dash and be more braking than anything short of 9/10 effort. Towing might be different, I've not done that yet.

I'm unsure on the cost cutting. I can see an open sunroof as a HUGE efficiency drain, and most people don't' understand that. I think the screen based vent adjustment actually has MORE ports and complexity than a simple manual adjuster. I do see the premise though.

I won't buy an EV yet for the exact reason you're discussing. Depreciation is absurd, with the $7.5k tax credit doing nobody any favors on that front. Lucid Air's are selling for $70k-$80k with under 30k miles. That's a $150k car brand new. I'll lease an EV, let the bank take the depreciation risk.

I don't think the Ramcharger will have that effect. It's a niche market for people that need the range of an ICE but want the drive of an EV. People towing RV's will love it. Regular commuters are going to find it overly complex. Between technology advancements and infrastructure improvement towing within 150mi range of the house is now completely possible, and was a far fetched idea just 2yrs ago. It's still going to be a great product for RAM, but I don't think it's the saving grace it could have been 2-3yrs ago.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

I agree with @BlkGS, in that I believe the Ramcharger will be a game changer, IF the price is reasonable. I’m looking forward to it coming out to see what the performance and mileage numbers are really like. I’m 2 - 5 years out from replacing my current Ram 1500 (which I absolutely love) and don’t see any other full size trucks that have really piqued my interest.

Jim

 

[BlkGS]

@BlkGS A quick note on one pedal driving.......You absolutely modulate the braking force. You just do it by lifting the foot instead of moving to a different pedal. Just "stepping off" the accelerator would put your nose on the dash and be more braking than anything short of 9/10 effort. Towing might be different, I've not done that yet.

I'm unsure on the cost cutting. I can see an open sunroof as a HUGE efficiency drain, and most people don't' understand that. I think the screen based vent adjustment actually has MORE ports and complexity than a simple manual adjuster. I do see the premise though.

I won't buy an EV yet for the exact reason you're discussing. Depreciation is absurd, with the $7.5k tax credit doing nobody any favors on that front. Lucid Air's are selling for $70k-$80k with under 30k miles. That's a $150k car brand new. I'll lease an EV, let the bank take the depreciation risk.

I don't think the Ramcharger will have that effect. It's a niche market for people that need the range of an ICE but want the drive of an EV. People towing RV's will love it. Regular commuters are going to find it overly complex. Between technology advancements and infrastructure improvement towing within 150mi range of the house is now completely possible, and was a far fetched idea just 2yrs ago. It's still going to be a great product for RAM, but I don't think it's the saving grace it could have been 2-3yrs ago.

I think you're missing the point of Ramcharger. Yes it's super useful as a tow vehicle, but what's going to make it so game changing is it's an EV, with enough range for most use, but it's also range extended. So unlike a PHEV, you're getting full EV performance, but without any range issues. It doesn't even have to be more complex, the 3.6L is used solely as a generator, it has no drive line connection.

It's a great first.use case, but where that tech is really going to shine is more normal vehicles. Something like a Telluride/EV9 is a great example, it's not a tow vehicle (yeah they tow 5000 pounds or whatever but nobody really does). You could have a much smaller generator on it, powered by a much smaller gas engine. Now you've got a family vehicle without a huge battery, without a complex drive line, and without range limits. Taking the kids to school is no big deal and you can charge it at home. Going on a road trip to Disney? No problem, fill up with gas along the way.

I think the hard part is going to be educating the stupid US population on it. People will have a hard time fathoming that it's an EV, you can plug in, but you can also fill up with gas. I suspect people will try to compare it to gas vehicles in fuel economy, which it likely will not do better than, certainly not better than a hybrid. Estimates put it's non charged fuel economy at ~20 mpg. People will see that and go "well that ain't no better than the gas motor". People will see the 100 mile battery range and say "uhh that's nothing when others have 400+ miles of range". People will have a very hard time seeing it as a PHEV, and dodge is trying to ensure people don't see it as a PHEV. The right way to use r charger will be to charge at home, and use the generator as a backup plan, and people are dumb and can't think about 2 step processes.


That said, I think it's far more likely that dodge will overpriced it and screw it up anyways. I'm kinda hoping I can ride my X5 out for the second year of Ramcharger, hopefully they'll have it worked out well by then. But that'll.likely be like 2027, so who knows, I get antsy and that's FOREVER away.

 

[2kwik4u]

I think you're missing the point of Ramcharger. Yes it's super useful as a tow vehicle, but what's going to make it so game changing is it's an EV, with enough range for most use, but it's also range extended. So unlike a PHEV, you're getting full EV performance, but without any range issues. It doesn't even have to be more complex, the 3.6L is used solely as a generator, it has no drive line connection.

It's a great first.use case, but where that tech is really going to shine is more normal vehicles. Something like a Telluride/EV9 is a great example, it's not a tow vehicle (yeah they tow 5000 pounds or whatever but nobody really does). You could have a much smaller generator on it, powered by a much smaller gas engine. Now you've got a family vehicle without a huge battery, without a complex drive line, and without range limits. Taking the kids to school is no big deal and you can charge it at home. Going on a road trip to Disney? No problem, fill up with gas along the way.

I think the hard part is going to be educating the stupid US population on it. People will have a hard time fathoming that it's an EV, you can plug in, but you can also fill up with gas. I suspect people will try to compare it to gas vehicles in fuel economy, which it likely will not do better than, certainly not better than a hybrid. Estimates put it's non charged fuel economy at ~20 mpg. People will see that and go "well that ain't no better than the gas motor". People will see the 100 mile battery range and say "uhh that's nothing when others have 400+ miles of range". People will have a very hard time seeing it as a PHEV, and dodge is trying to ensure people don't see it as a PHEV. The right way to use r charger will be to charge at home, and use the generator as a backup plan, and people are dumb and can't think about 2 step processes.


That said, I think it's far more likely that dodge will overpriced it and screw it up anyways. I'm kinda hoping I can ride my X5 out for the second year of Ramcharger, hopefully they'll have it worked out well by then. But that'll.likely be like 2027, so who knows, I get antsy and that's FOREVER away.

It has an entire set of ICE problems and an entire set of EV problems. It's just about as complex as it gets. To solve the "range issue" you're putting an entire engine assembly, fuel system, cooling system, and ancillary support systems (as well as the added weight of all that) on an EV. You'll never convince me that a vehicle that has both systems is less complex than a vehicle with either singular system.

The only use case I see is for towing (or similar energy intensive tasks), or extended time/distance off the grid. Boondock camping in Africa or something like that. A straight EV can compete in all other venues at this point. The only other place I know an ICE/EV hybrid exists is in locomotives, and cruise ships, and it's pretty obvious the parallels between that and towing; extended time off grid, and heavy loads. Range isn't really an issue anymore unless you're towing. I see posts daily with Rivians, and Lightnings taking monstrous cross country road trips with success, and largely no major changes to the traditional paradigm of road tripping.

I agree education on it is going to be hard. One because GM tried this with the Volt and nobody understood it, so we've already had a trial run of this tech for the public. Two because it's such a niche use case they're going to ask why you didn't pick a lane and stick with it? If you need long distance under load, get an ICE, otherwise an EV will likely fill the need.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Personally, I have little interest in a hybrid that has a 25 - 50 mile battery range but am very interested in the Ramcharger 145 mile battery range. For me, this is a game changer for a hybrid vehicle. I could see a lot of truck buyers (personal and commercial) being happy with a 100 - 150 mile battery range, I know that I would be happy with that. It makes even sense when you do a comparison with similar ICE or EV trucks.

Jim

 

[Julian]

Personally, I have little interest in a hybrid that has a 25 - 50 mile battery range but am very interested in the Ramcharger 145 mile battery range. For me, this is a game changer for a hybrid vehicle. I could see a lot of truck buyers (personal and commercial) being happy with a 100 - 150 mile battery range, I know that I would be happy with that. It makes even sense when you do a comparison with similar ICE or EV trucks.

Jim

I didn't know it's range was so low....was expecting 250 mile range...huh

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

I didn't know it's range was so low....was expecting 250 mile range...huh

If I recall, the estimated range of a full charge with a full tank of gas is somewhere around 690 miles. Basically an electric vehicle with a big onboard gas generator and a 27 gallon gas tank.

Jim

 

[BlkGS]

It has an entire set of ICE problems and an entire set of EV problems. It's just about as complex as it gets. To solve the "range issue" you're putting an entire engine assembly, fuel system, cooling system, and ancillary support systems (as well as the added weight of all that) on an EV. You'll never convince me that a vehicle that has both systems is less complex than a vehicle with either singular system.

The only use case I see is for towing (or similar energy intensive tasks), or extended time/distance off the grid. Boondock camping in Africa or something like that. A straight EV can compete in all other venues at this point. The only other place I know an ICE/EV hybrid exists is in locomotives, and cruise ships, and it's pretty obvious the parallels between that and towing; extended time off grid, and heavy loads. Range isn't really an issue anymore unless you're towing. I see posts daily with Rivians, and Lightnings taking monstrous cross country road trips with success, and largely no major changes to the traditional paradigm of road tripping.

I agree education on it is going to be hard. One because GM tried this with the Volt and nobody understood it, so we've already had a trial run of this tech for the public. Two because it's such a niche use case they're going to ask why you didn't pick a lane and stick with it? If you need long distance under load, get an ICE, otherwise an EV will likely fill the need.

EVs are fine when you can charge at home, and are staying in a localized area, or have time to burn. Range Extended EVs remove these qualifiers, it just works, all the time, no drawbacks except additional "stuff".

You're right, it isn't less complex than one or the other. But it also doesn't need to be as complex as you think. You can end up with something no more complex than the gas motor on your push mower, pressure washer, or generator. It could likely be air cooled, because it's not going to be running all the time (though frankly, a small liquid cooling system would probably be beneficial for Ramcharger, more pedestrian vehicles would likely work fine air cooled). The engine doesn't need to be fancy, and likely will revert back to something like a pushrod v6 without variable anything, since it's only a generator, it doesn't need to be a complex motor capable of providing low end grunt and high peak HP, it can be set to spin at a specific duty cycle and designed to only work well in that range. Frankly, it doesn't even need to be computer controlled anymore, but likely will. The weight for a simple engine and all its supporting stuff is still going to be less than the weight it takes to have one of those monster 200kwh packs that still don't provide as much range.

I get it, it's a nightmare from a strict efficiency standpoint, more stuff to go wrong, etc. But what it does is make a vehicle totally accessible for everyone. You don't have to fit the use case for an EV anymore, you get the benefits of an EV without the drawbacks.

A couple of non towing situations where Ramcharger would be a useful vehicle still, but an EV would not. Hurricanes (or other bad weather) and the power is out for a week. Sometimes longer. No power means you can't charge your EV. Need more food? Too bad. Gotta go to work still? Too bad. Maybe you decide you want to evacuate, well now you've got a long road trip that you have to plan charging stops for? That's already a stressful enough time, now needing to stop every 200 miles (being generous) to charge to 80%? The storm is gonna make better time than you will.

Where a range extended EV has the biggest advantage is you don't have to adjust your life to the limitations of an EV. For a lot of people, they're fine with doing it. They can rationalize that they can charger here, there, anywhere. But with a range extended vehicle, you don't need to worry about it, you can charge at home and have no risk of exceeding your range. That's going to sell.

 

[2kwik4u]

Well, went and test drove this last night.



It was pretty nice. I think I liked the Rivian slightly better than this to be honest. Sierra just felt GIANT overall when driving it. Even with the 4WS working hard to make it park easier (which it did), it felt ginormous in general. Interior was awesome with a good mix of physical buttons and screen interaction. User interface was snappy and felt very useable. Rear seats had a TON of space back there. Love the air suspension and the midgate.

Charge port is near the rear taillight on the drivers side. That's a BIG miss for me. When towing with an EV you have to be able to pull in to charge. Dropping the trailer to charge because there aren't many pull through stations just seems like an odd choice for a pickup. The hood is REALLY high, like chest height for me, and I'm 6'2" tall. It's just really big. Interior appointments were very upscale, but obviously GM quality. I think the Rivian was a little nicer here overall. The full console was an interesting choice considering there is no transmission tunnel. Kind of felt like a waste of volume to me. Seats were much more comfortable.

Sticker as $99,905. Shew it's a lot for a pickup. Slightly less than the R1S I configured at $112,705 last night. This is probably the best EV for towing right now with ~450mi of range empty and close to 220mi or range when towing. Rated at 10k towing and 1,450lbs of payload it's a proper truck, even has what I would consider acceptable range while towing (aside from that charge port location).

Thoughts?

 

[BlkGS]

If I recall, the estimated range of a full charge with a full tank of gas is somewhere around 690 miles. Basically an electric vehicle with a big onboard gas generator and a 27 gallon gas tank.

Jim

Yup. It's got a 92kwh battery, about the same as the Lightning standard range (they claim 220ish miles I think?). Then the 27 gallon tank.

I wonder if theyr being conservative with the estimates, because at 100;150 miles of EV range that's way lower than Ford claims with a similar sized pack in a similar sized vehicle. GM is claiming like 400 miles out of a 200kwh pack in their electric trucks. I would not be surprised to see the range estimates be on the low side for Ramcharger.

 

[BlkGS]

Well, went and test drove this last night.

View attachment 226184

It was pretty nice. I think I liked the Rivian slightly better than this to be honest. Sierra just felt GIANT overall when driving it. Even with the 4WS working hard to make it park easier (which it did), it felt ginormous in general. Interior was awesome with a good mix of physical buttons and screen interaction. User interface was snappy and felt very useable. Rear seats had a TON of space back there. Love the air suspension and the midgate.

Charge port is near the rear taillight on the drivers side. That's a BIG miss for me. When towing with an EV you have to be able to pull in to charge. Dropping the trailer to charge because there aren't many pull through stations just seems like an odd choice for a pickup. The hood is REALLY high, like chest height for me, and I'm 6'2" tall. It's just really big. Interior appointments were very upscale, but obviously GM quality. I think the Rivian was a little nicer here overall. The full console was an interesting choice considering there is no transmission tunnel. Kind of felt like a waste of volume to me. Seats were much more comfortable.

Sticker as $99,905. Shew it's a lot for a pickup. Slightly less than the R1S I configured at $112,705 last night. This is probably the best EV for towing right now with ~450mi of range empty and close to 220mi or range when towing. Rated at 10k towing and 1,450lbs of payload it's a proper truck, even has what I would consider acceptable range while towing (aside from that charge port location).

Thoughts?

I don't see the charge port as a big deal. You're not charging without dropping your trailer in 95% of cases anyways, all the charge stations here are parking spots with a charge station at the front. You have a trailer, you block the road, and someone's gonna punish you for your selfishness. Now if there's towing sized chargeing spots at the lake or something, maybe it's a bigger issue.

$100k is a lot. That's probably $25k more than a comparable gas or diesel sierra. I don't think you'd ever make that much money back on fuel unless you were driving like 300 miles a day. I get that some people just "gotta have it", but I'm not gonna beta test for $100k.

As an aside, a buddy of mine is looking at trucks instead of replacing the tires on his Lexus GS (he just wants an excuse). You can get a loaded titan platinum for UNDER 50K. The one he sent me was like, 48k. Even if there's some BS attached, that's still probably half the price of the Sierra EV. Even with the dismal titan mileage, you will never make that price difference up

One thing the X5 PHEV guys always complain about, apparently charging rates in public are often as expensive or more expensive than just filling up with gas. Don't know if it's just a CA thing, or if it's widespread, but that's a pretty major drawback.

Anyways, give it 6 months and those sierras will be 80k, not 100k. Maybe less. That said, I like how the Sierra EV looks. Most of the EVs out there (looking at you Rivian) look too dorky. The designers clearly want them to look quirky and different, and I think it comes off like the anime nerd kid who wears a anime wig to school.

 

[buckbuck]

This is a review of the Chinese BYD mid size truck with electric motors and a gas generator similar to what Ram is proposing.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

This is a review of the Chinese BYD mid size truck with electric motors and a gas generator similar to what Ram is proposing.

Thought that was an excellent review. I find this drive technology to be really interesting.

Personally, I am a bit concerned about BYD entering the U.S. market as the Chinese give huge subsidies to their manufacturers to try to get products quickly to market to dominate them.

Jim

 

[BlkGS]

This is a review of the Chinese BYD mid size truck with electric motors and a gas generator similar to what Ram is proposing.

Between massive government subsidies to drive foreign competition out of business and slave labor, you can't compete with Chinese manufacturing fairly, because they don't play fair. We should be trying to completely remove ourselves from importing Chinese goods in general.

 

[2kwik4u]

Found this on my home from the gym this morning. Looks much better in person than I expected! I like it better than the Sierra! Has 4ws, air suspension, opening roof and a tow rating all the stuff I like about the Q7. I think this was an employee vehicle based on the license plate, and customization so I didn't get out and snoop around at all.

 

[Bluewater272]

That thing is sweet. If it were about 25K cheaper it'd probably be in my driveway.