EV discussion - hate or love?

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Toddler trapped in car when Tesla battery dies in Scottsdale​

“I could not get in. My phone key wouldn’t open it. My card key wouldn’t open it.”

Toddler trapped in car when Tesla battery dies in Scottsdale

A Scottsdale woman says her granddaughter got trapped inside a Tesla when the car's battery died.

www.azfamily.com

 

[2kwik4u]

Toddler trapped in car when Tesla battery dies in Scottsdale​

“I could not get in. My phone key wouldn’t open it. My card key wouldn’t open it.”

Toddler trapped in car when Tesla battery dies in Scottsdale

A Scottsdale woman says her granddaughter got trapped inside a Tesla when the car's battery died.

www.azfamily.com

I don't so much see this as an EV issue but as more of a poor human factors design issue. 12V dying on any particular car can be bad, however, poor backup plans like this make a bad situation worse. The lack of physical controls for things such as this are absurdly poor engineering decisions overall.

Remote battery died on my Q7 a few years ago while my wife was driving it. I had to walk her through how to get into the vehicle. Luckily it has a physical key backup, and a hidden key slot in the door handle. While it was inconvenient, it was about 5min of talking through on the phone, not a AAA call, or fire department call.

I've been researching the snot out of EV's as my Q7's time in my possession is growing short. I was seriously bummed when I heard that Rivian no longer offers a key fob. It's a poor decision IMO, and the reliance on phone as a key is, in my opinion, asinine. The backup of a keycard doesn't remove nearly enough of the risk either, as evidenced by the above article. It's just a slightly different piece of tech that must be powered on, awake, and working to gain access.

 

[Julian]

I don't so much see this as an EV issue but as more of a poor human factors design issue. 12V dying on any particular car can be bad, however, poor backup plans like this make a bad situation worse. The lack of physical controls for things such as this are absurdly poor engineering decisions overall.

Remote battery died on my Q7 a few years ago while my wife was driving it. I had to walk her through how to get into the vehicle. Luckily it has a physical key backup, and a hidden key slot in the door handle. While it was inconvenient, it was about 5min of talking through on the phone, not a AAA call, or fire department call.

I've been researching the snot out of EV's as my Q7's time in my possession is growing short. I was seriously bummed when I heard that Rivian no longer offers a key fob. It's a poor decision IMO, and the reliance on phone as a key is, in my opinion, asinine. The backup of a keycard doesn't remove nearly enough of the risk either, as evidenced by the above article. It's just a slightly different piece of tech that must be powered on, awake, and working to gain access.

I couldn't agree more! Not having a physical key is really really BAD design and probably should be against the law from a safety perspective. At the very least, the NTSB should add this to their safety check scoring.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Here was another recent locked out of the Tesla story,

Mom, good Samaritan smash Tesla window trying to rescue toddler son locked inside hot car

When the Mom stepped out to disconnect the charger, her Tesla unexpectedly locked her out, with her 13-month-old baby still inside. Don’t know if this is a technical error or a user error. If its a user error, then it shouldn’t be so complicated to control the door locks.

Jim

 

[Julian]

I don't so much see this as an EV issue but as more of a poor human factors design issue. 12V dying on any particular car can be bad, however, poor backup plans like this make a bad situation worse. The lack of physical controls for things such as this are absurdly poor engineering decisions overall.

Remote battery died on my Q7 a few years ago while my wife was driving it. I had to walk her through how to get into the vehicle. Luckily it has a physical key backup, and a hidden key slot in the door handle. While it was inconvenient, it was about 5min of talking through on the phone, not a AAA call, or fire department call.

I've been researching the snot out of EV's as my Q7's time in my possession is growing short. I was seriously bummed when I heard that Rivian no longer offers a key fob. It's a poor decision IMO, and the reliance on phone as a key is, in my opinion, asinine. The backup of a keycard doesn't remove nearly enough of the risk either, as evidenced by the above article. It's just a slightly different piece of tech that must be powered on, awake, and working to gain access.

You should buy an Ioniq 5N! It has a full key, a key fob and a smartphone key! And it will blow away pretty much every "sports" car on the road! I only have the 5 Performance, and still (1.5 years later) love the feeling of hauling ass from a stop!

 

[Murf'n'surf]

With any technical piece of machinery, there is a learning curve to its functionality. All Tesla vehicles (not sure of Cybertruck but likely) frunk can be opened with a small battery from the port in the front bumper. Many users store the small battery right inside the port so it's there to gain access into the frunk and 12v battery. First responders should know this and have it as means of access to jump the 12v battery to gain access into the cabin. But, using the window popper is much quicker when it comes to saving a life.

 

[2kwik4u]

You should buy an Ioniq 5N! It has a full key, a key fob and a smartphone key! And it will blow away pretty much every "sports" car on the road! I only have the 5 Performance, and still (1.5 years later) love the feeling of hauling ass from a stop!

Honestly, I like the SQ8 eTron. Has the Audi key I'm familiar with already, and the proximity entry that actually makes sense.

I think phone as a key, and credit card as a key are just another gimmick that is all sizzle and no steak (same as the touchscreen air vent controls IMO). Audi has the passive entry thing pretty nailed as far as I'm concerned. I walk up with the key in my pocket, and I touch the inside of the door handle, doors unlock. It doesn't unlock because I'm nearby, only when I touch it. I control the lock/unlock timing, not the car. When I leave the car, just touch the outside of the handle and everything locks. You've got a Q7, you know the drill. Easily the best passive entry system I've found.

 

[Julian]

Honestly, I like the SQ8 eTron. Has the Audi key I'm familiar with already, and the proximity entry that actually makes sense.

I think phone as a key, and credit card as a key are just another gimmick that is all sizzle and no steak (same as the touchscreen air vent controls IMO). Audi has the passive entry thing pretty nailed as far as I'm concerned. I walk up with the key in my pocket, and I touch the inside of the door handle, doors unlock. It doesn't unlock because I'm nearby, only when I touch it. I control the lock/unlock timing, not the car. When I leave the car, just touch the outside of the handle and everything locks. You've got a Q7, you know the drill. Easily the best passive entry system I've found.

The Ioniq 5 (6 etc) has a decent passive entry capability, but it doesn't lock when you walk away....you have to touch the handle to make it lock. But that wouldn't stop me from buying it.

Honestly, I like the SQ8 eTron. Has the Audi key I'm familiar with already, and the proximity entry that actually makes sense.

I think phone as a key, and credit card as a key are just another gimmick that is all sizzle and no steak (same as the touchscreen air vent controls IMO). Audi has the passive entry thing pretty nailed as far as I'm concerned. I walk up with the key in my pocket, and I touch the inside of the door handle, doors unlock. It doesn't unlock because I'm nearby, only when I touch it. I control the lock/unlock timing, not the car. When I leave the car, just touch the outside of the handle and everything locks. You've got a Q7, you know the drill. Easily the best passive entry system I've found.

The etron is nice, but:

1. Charges slower (170kw max vs IONIQ 240kw)
2. Costs 21-26k more
3. Is much slower at an estimated 4.5 second 0-60 (thats a normal Ioniq 5 performance model like mine ... Still fast but not blazing like the N model). If you want 4.5, then only spend 58k for an Ioniq limited.

But it is more prestigious .... But you pay for that badge.

The N has drift mode, track mode etc.

 

[adrianp89]

The Ioniq 5 (6 etc) has a decent passive entry capability, but it doesn't lock when you walk away....you have to touch the handle to make it lock. But that wouldn't stop me from buying it.

The etron is nice, but:

1. Charges slower (170kw max vs IONIQ 240kw)
2. Costs 21-26k more
3. Is much slower at an estimated 4.5 second 0-60 (thats a normal Ioniq 5 performance model like mine ... Still fast but not blazing like the N model). If you want 4.5, then only spend 58k for an Ioniq limited.

But it is more prestigious .... But you pay for that badge.

The N has drift mode, track mode etc.

You leave out quality. The Hyundai's are decent on the surface but the Audi is a whole another tier. I have no data to back this up, but while both will depreciate like a boulder in the ocean, I would think the Hyundai depreciates faster. Also subjective the Audi looks 100x better.

 

[Julian]

You leave out quality. The Hyundai's are decent on the surface but the Audi is a whole another tier. I have no data to back this up, but while both will depreciate like a boulder in the ocean, I would think the Hyundai depreciates faster. Also subjective the Audi looks 100x better.

As an Audi owner I can't say mine has $20-35k more quality than my Hyundai. Yes it is nicer...but not that much more. Plus Audi charges an arm and a leg for parts and service. But I get what you are saying.

They look very different....but I love the look of them both. The N with a 3-5k race wrap would look amazing!

 

[Murf'n'surf]

As an Audi owner I can't say mine has $20-35k more quality than my Hyundai. Yes it is nicer...but not that much more. Plus Audi charges an arm and a leg for parts and service. But I get what you are saying.

They look very different....but I love the look of them both. The N with a 3-5k race wrap would look amazing!

That looks like a blast to drive! You would get tickets sitting still in my town!

 

[Bluewater272]

Honestly, I like the SQ8 eTron. Has the Audi key I'm familiar with already, and the proximity entry that actually makes sense.

I think phone as a key, and credit card as a key are just another gimmick that is all sizzle and no steak (same as the touchscreen air vent controls IMO). Audi has the passive entry thing pretty nailed as far as I'm concerned. I walk up with the key in my pocket, and I touch the inside of the door handle, doors unlock. It doesn't unlock because I'm nearby, only when I touch it. I control the lock/unlock timing, not the car. When I leave the car, just touch the outside of the handle and everything locks. You've got a Q7, you know the drill. Easily the best passive entry system I've found.

Personally I find the phone key to be the coolest thing about it. Can't stand keys, smart locks on everything here. All I need to grab leaving the house is my phone (with a small wallet attached to the back).

I'm certain I'll sing a different tune if it ever doesn't work, but over a year into owning mine and its been flawless.

 

[BlkGS]

I don't get why the truck has the trip motor setup, but not the SUV.

GM really.messed up in 2008 killing Hummer. It was an early victim of identity politics. They should have started putting diesel motors and hybrids in them. They were still selling fairly well at the time. Real missed opportunity.

 

[2kwik4u]

I don't get why the truck has the trip motor setup, but not the SUV.

GM really.messed up in 2008 killing Hummer. It was an early victim of identity politics. They should have started putting diesel motors and hybrids in them. They were still selling fairly well at the time. Real missed opportunity.

Hummer went away as part of the bankruptcy bailout with the feds if I remember right. Same thing with Pontiac.

Also, the Hummer has a 3x package that has triple motors. 2x package only has two.

 

[BlkGS]

With any technical piece of machinery, there is a learning curve to its functionality. All Tesla vehicles (not sure of Cybertruck but likely) frunk can be opened with a small battery from the port in the front bumper. Many users store the small battery right inside the port so it's there to gain access into the frunk and 12v battery. First responders should know this and have it as means of access to jump the 12v battery to gain access into the cabin. But, using the window popper is much quicker when it comes to saving a life.

That's bull. First responders can't be expected to train on the introcacies of every single car on the market. Cars should all have an external, passive way to open the car, whether that's a key, a button, whatever doesn't matter, but it should be possible to open the vehicle easily without any power.

Corvettes have had electric door opened since the 2005 model year. There's a small keyhole embedded into the rear hatch release button that will open the hatch, and two pulls to release the doors just inside there. Each door has a manual release by the door sill. While old people still manage to unalive themselves in them, there's a myriad of ways in and out of it.

That said, how someone could just let a toddler be in the car and not break the fucking window immediately is beyond me. That's murder, facilitated by poor design.

I don't even put the kids in the car without remote starting it first. This is like, basics of hot climate living.

 

[BlkGS]

Hummer went away as part of the bankruptcy bailout with the feds if I remember right. Same thing with Pontiac.

Also, the Hummer has a 3x package that has triple motors. 2x package only has two.

It was at that time, yeah. I don't think it was technically part of the deal, just coincided.

I didn't think you could get the whole 1000hp deal on the SUV, but yeah I guess you can. I don't think you can get it on the Chevy or GMC trucks though, which is weird. Maybe it's to keep the Hummer a premium offering, I dunno.

All that said, at $100k plus for a hummer, I'm out. That's way too much money for a GM product.

 

[Bluewater272]

The last hummer sucked, it sucked at the time, it sucks now. I think we're being a little nostalgic that it shouldn't have been cancelled. Just a novelty car hitching a ride at the end of the retro comeback.

 

[2kwik4u]

It was at that time, yeah. I don't think it was technically part of the deal, just coincided.

I didn't think you could get the whole 1000hp deal on the SUV, but yeah I guess you can. I don't think you can get it on the Chevy or GMC trucks though, which is weird. Maybe it's to keep the Hummer a premium offering, I dunno.

All that said, at $100k plus for a hummer, I'm out. That's way too much money for a GM product.

Closer to $140k. This is on the lot around the corner from me.



To quote Jules in Pulp Fiction "Well we'd have to be talkin' about one charming motherfuckin' pig. I mean he'd have to be ten times more charmin' than that Arnold on Green Acres, you know what I'm sayin'?"

 

[2kwik4u]

The last hummer sucked, it sucked at the time, it sucks now. I think we're being a little nostalgic that it shouldn't have been cancelled. Just a novelty car hitching a ride at the end of the retro comeback.

H2 sucked. H1 was neat, but clearly a military vehicle. H3 was VERY capable and a good vehicle, despite it's Colorado/Canyon underpinnings. EV is a study in how to be "over the top" in the EV space, doubt it goes anywhere in terms of sales numbers. There are better options for less cash IMO. They do look cool though!

 

[adrianp89]

H2 sucked. H1 was neat, but clearly a military vehicle. H3 was VERY capable and a good vehicle, despite it's Colorado/Canyon underpinnings. EV is a study in how to be "over the top" in the EV space, doubt it goes anywhere in terms of sales numbers. There are better options for less cash IMO. They do look cool though!

I wouldn't say the H2 sucked anymore than the 1/2 tons trucks of the time did. The expectations were too high for it. It was simply a Silverado marketed wrong.