EV discussion - hate or love?

[Murf'n'surf]

I don't get why the truck has the trip motor setup, but not the SUV.

GM really.messed up in 2008 killing Hummer. It was an early victim of identity politics. They should have started putting diesel motors and hybrids in them. They were still selling fairly well at the time. Real missed opportunity.

My opinion is they killed the Hummer when they watered down the market with the H3.

 

[2kwik4u]

I wouldn't say the H2 sucked anymore than the 1/2 tons trucks of the time did. The expectations were too high for it. It was simply a Silverado marketed wrong.

As the previous owner of a 2003 GMC Yukon......The H2 was a step into absurdity from the Yukon starting point. I might not have outright sucked, but it sure didn't do itself any favors on any performance metrics beyond styling.

 

[Julian]

That said, how someone could just let a toddler be in the car and not break the fucking window immediately is beyond me. That's murder, facilitated by poor design.

I guess you didn't read or watch the video on either story? The video shows the mom beating the living shit out of the window with both arms together! Fortunately a good Samaritan had a window punch hammer.

 

[Julian]

That looks like a blast to drive! You would get tickets sitting still in my town!

I'd love to take it to a big open lot and play with the drift mode! I'd probably take some driving classes and take it to the track as well!

 

[Julian]

Personally I find the phone key to be the coolest thing about it. Can't stand keys, smart locks on everything here. All I need to grab leaving the house is my phone (with a small wallet attached to the back).

I'm certain I'll sing a different tune if it ever doesn't work, but over a year into owning mine and its been flawless.

Which brand do you use?

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

The H2 weighed 6500 lbs and got 10 m.p.g. I remember that part of the appeal to business owners was that since it was over 6000 lbs., they could write off the entire cost of the vehicle on their taxes.

Jim

 

[BlkGS]

I guess you didn't read or watch the video on either story? The video shows the mom beating the living shit out of the window with both arms together! Fortunately a good Samaritan had a window punch hammer.

I was talking about the one with the grandma who did nothing but eventually call the police. I didn't see a video though, just the story about the grandma talking about how she loves her Tesla but wouldn't buy a other BECAUSE SHE KILLED HER GRANDCHILD IN ONE.

Either way, I don't get it. I hate leaving my kids in the car for the 30 seconds it takes me to get them out after I shut the car off.

 

[BlkGS]

My opinion is they killed the Hummer when they watered down the market with the H3.

I thought the H3 was actually a pretty good vehicle. It was fairly efficient for what it was, nice inside, and it's.important to remember it was actually pretty cheap. The real issue it had was it was based on old underpinnings, so when the KL Jeep Liberty came out and out towed it that was kinda an issue.

 

[2kwik4u]

I'd love to take it to a big open lot and play with the drift mode! I'd probably take some driving classes and take it to the track as well!

Throttle House did a really good review on the Ioniq 5N. Seemed to like it from what I could gather. I doubt I'll ever own one. I've been in a couple Hyundai rentals this year, and I just don't like the interior design styling and operation. The SanteFe I had for a week was neat with the giant screen and very modern styling, but was just OK to drive, and I grew tired of the over the top styling quickly. The Santa Cruz I had back in January was actually pretty nice. Much more traditional styling and interior. DCT transmission wasn't great though.

As much of a car enthusiast as I might be (or have been), a lot of these drift modes, and other such features are more sizzle than steak. Cool to have, but not sure how often I would use them. Of course so is 1,025hp in an R1S.

I'm like 99% convinced I want an EV as my next vehicle. I'm tired of oil changes and gaskets and clutches, and belts, and filters, and all that crap. However, that's not to say a lease on ICE wouldn't solve those same issues for me. I really like the idea of not standing outside in the winter in Buffalo to put fuel in the car too.

I have a couple big gripes with the R1S, but it keeps being the one I come back to. 3rd row, long base range (371mi), as well as some decent off-road chops with the A/T package. Nothing else has really "blown my socks off" any better.

 

[2kwik4u]

Personally I find the phone key to be the coolest thing about it. Can't stand keys, smart locks on everything here. All I need to grab leaving the house is my phone (with a small wallet attached to the back).

I'm certain I'll sing a different tune if it ever doesn't work, but over a year into owning mine and its been flawless.

How do you handle it locking/unlocking when you're just near the doors? Like, what's the workflow here? Have a friend with a Model 3 and when we're hanging out in his garage the car is constantly locking/unlocking itself as he move in/out of bluetooth range. I can't imagine a home door doing that, and not driving me bat shit crazy. Maybe geofencing, so it locks once the phone is "outside the property" or something like that. But what happens if you leave and someone else is home? Do all people have to keep a device on hand to keep the house unlocked? This feels like a lot of loophole management by exception kind of stuff. A key or keypad with physical touch seems like a much less "fussy" solution.

I also really like that the Q7 doesn't unlock until I touch the handle. Not when I'm near it, or just walking by it, but I have to specifically touch it. Been a couple times in dark parking lots that I've appreciated it remaining dark and unnoticed until I touched it and could quickly transition to inside and locked again. How does that scenario play out with PAK systems?

Lots of curiosity here. I HATED not having a physical key to start the car. Took me over 3yrs of ownership, and I'm still not convinced of the functional benefit to it, although I am used to it now. I think PAK is a step too far for me, but I'm open to new ideas here.

 

[Bluewater272]

How do you handle it locking/unlocking when you're just near the doors? Like, what's the workflow here? Have a friend with a Model 3 and when we're hanging out in his garage the car is constantly locking/unlocking itself as he move in/out of bluetooth range. I can't imagine a home door doing that, and not driving me bat shit crazy. Maybe geofencing, so it locks once the phone is "outside the property" or something like that. But what happens if you leave and someone else is home? Do all people have to keep a device on hand to keep the house unlocked? This feels like a lot of loophole management by exception kind of stuff. A key or keypad with physical touch seems like a much less "fussy" solution.

I also really like that the Q7 doesn't unlock until I touch the handle. Not when I'm near it, or just walking by it, but I have to specifically touch it. Been a couple times in dark parking lots that I've appreciated it remaining dark and unnoticed until I touched it and could quickly transition to inside and locked again. How does that scenario play out with PAK systems?

Lots of curiosity here. I HATED not having a physical key to start the car. Took me over 3yrs of ownership, and I'm still not convinced of the functional benefit to it, although I am used to it now. I think PAK is a step too far for me, but I'm open to new ideas here.

The home door locks don't lock/unlock automatically just based on phone proximity to the lock, but rather tied into a geofence, I do have a pretty complicated automation set up to control it that took a fair bit of trial and error, but its very reliable now. Just two adults in the home, so 99% of the time we leave, we're leaving with phone in tow - also all the vehicles have their location information passed into the automation so there are additional layers to determine who and what is home. The deadbolt of course has a keypad that can be utilized as well if the automation doesn't fire. My only real concern is getting home one day during a power failure and batteries in both locks dead - that'd be embarrassing, but exceedingly unlikely.

The car is a Model 3, also requires you to touch the door handle to lock/unlock - the sound you hear when walking near the car is coming from the battery, taking it out of sleep and putting in a state where its ready to drive as soon as you're in. That does get annoying sometimes when I'm doing yardwork and walking back and forth a bunch.

 

[Julian]

Throttle House did a really good review on the Ioniq 5N. Seemed to like it from what I could gather. I doubt I'll ever own one. I've been in a couple Hyundai rentals this year, and I just don't like the interior design styling and operation. The SanteFe I had for a week was neat with the giant screen and very modern styling, but was just OK to drive, and I grew tired of the over the top styling quickly. The Santa Cruz I had back in January was actually pretty nice. Much more traditional styling and interior. DCT transmission wasn't great though.

As much of a car enthusiast as I might be (or have been), a lot of these drift modes, and other such features are more sizzle than steak. Cool to have, but not sure how often I would use them. Of course so is 1,025hp in an R1S.

I'm like 99% convinced I want an EV as my next vehicle. I'm tired of oil changes and gaskets and clutches, and belts, and filters, and all that crap. However, that's not to say a lease on ICE wouldn't solve those same issues for me. I really like the idea of not standing outside in the winter in Buffalo to put fuel in the car too.

I have a couple big gripes with the R1S, but it keeps being the one I come back to. 3rd row, long base range (371mi), as well as some decent off-road chops with the A/T package. Nothing else has really "blown my socks off" any better.

I briefly considered a Rivian, but couldn't get past my fear of buying a car from a startup that might go out of business....

 

[BlkGS]

I don't think any EV is gonna "blow your socks off". That's not where they are at in the market, or where the auto industry is as a whole. The auto industry as a whole is chasing "good enough with high margins". Nobody is really trying to wow or impress, they're trying to pass off "cheaper" as modern. They're cost cutting features out (like moonroofs that open), and setting the stage for a "goods as a service" model.

Phone as a key is dumb on multiple levels. Let me rephrase, phone as a key as your main option is dumb. I have it on my BMW and it's just pointless except for being able to remote start from further away. Relying on the phone to be your communication device AND your key is just dumb. If they're separate devices, if one get damaged, stolen, lost, whatever you have a backup plan. I can drive home without my phone if I have keys, and I can call someone if I lose my.keya but have my phone. If my phone and keys are one, I'm hosed.

That said, Phone as a key is just a gateway drug to automakers not giving you a key as standard. It will start with new cars coming with a single key. Then eventually it will be no keys.

 

[Bluewater272]

Which brand do you use?

Vehicle is a Tesla, but home is Yale smart locks controlled by home assistant.

 

[BlkGS]

I briefly considered a Rivian, but couldn't get past my fear of buying a car from a startup that WILL go out of business....

Fixed for you

Rivian is on borrowed time. They're transitioning to a software company, the deal with VW that's their current lifeline is basically them acting as software developers for VW. They will eventually fizzle out as an automaker and get scooped up by a legacy automaker (probably VW) for their software.

 

[Bluewater272]

Phone as a key is dumb on multiple levels. Let me rephrase, phone as a key as your main option is dumb. I have it on my BMW and it's just pointless except for being able to remote start from further away. Relying on the phone to be your communication device AND your key is just dumb. If they're separate devices, if one get damaged, stolen, lost, whatever you have a backup plan. I can drive home without my phone if I have keys, and I can call someone if I lose my.keya but have my phone. If my phone and keys are one, I'm hosed.

If all your BMW app does is remote start, then you do not have phone as a key - maybe that's the source of your misunderstanding. If it does have the actual PAK, then it does more than you said, and unclear why you'd leave that out.

Also, they all have backups. If my phone gets destroyed, I can take the card out of my wallet and drive the car home and use that until I get a new phone. Two modes of entry and operation, not one. You only have one, so if you drop your key in the drink at least you can sit in your remote started car while waiting for someone to bring you a key or a tow.

 

[Murf'n'surf]

I don't think any EV is gonna "blow your socks off". That's not where they are at in the market, or where the auto industry is as a whole. The auto industry as a whole is chasing "good enough with high margins". Nobody is really trying to wow or impress, they're trying to pass off "cheaper" as modern. They're cost cutting features out (like moonroofs that open), and setting the stage for a "goods as a service" model.

Phone as a key is dumb on multiple levels. Let me rephrase, phone as a key as your main option is dumb. I have it on my BMW and it's just pointless except for being able to remote start from further away. Relying on the phone to be your communication device AND your key is just dumb. If they're separate devices, if one get damaged, stolen, lost, whatever you have a backup plan. I can drive home without my phone if I have keys, and I can call someone if I lose my.keya but have my phone. If my phone and keys are one, I'm hosed.

That said, Phone as a key is just a gateway drug to automakers not giving you a key as standard. It will start with new cars coming with a single key. Then eventually it will be no keys.

I have a Tesla, and in the beginning, I thought a phone key was just plain silly. It did not take long to realize the brilliance of never having to carry another fob around because my phone is with me 24/7. I carry a key card in my wallet in case my phone is lost or damaged.

 

[Coult45]

How do you handle it locking/unlocking when you're just near the doors? Like, what's the workflow here? Have a friend with a Model 3 and when we're hanging out in his garage the car is constantly locking/unlocking itself as he move in/out of bluetooth range. I can't imagine a home door doing that, and not driving me bat shit crazy. Maybe geofencing, so it locks once the phone is "outside the property" or something like that. But what happens if you leave and someone else is home? Do all people have to keep a device on hand to keep the house unlocked? This feels like a lot of loophole management by exception kind of stuff. A key or keypad with physical touch seems like a much less "fussy" solution.

I also really like that the Q7 doesn't unlock until I touch the handle. Not when I'm near it, or just walking by it, but I have to specifically touch it. Been a couple times in dark parking lots that I've appreciated it remaining dark and unnoticed until I touched it and could quickly transition to inside and locked again. How does that scenario play out with PAK systems?

Lots of curiosity here. I HATED not having a physical key to start the car. Took me over 3yrs of ownership, and I'm still not convinced of the functional benefit to it, although I am used to it now. I think PAK is a step too far for me, but I'm open to new ideas here.

PAAK was garbage in the MachE for the first year, but software updates have made it pretty much bulletproof now. In addition, there's a keypad on the door to unlock it and a code you can set on the big screen on the dash to start the car if you happen to drop your phone in the lake.

The car also lights up when you're about 20 feet away, but the doors won't open unless you're standing right next to the door with the fob or phone in your pocket. I wouldn't mind having a way to suppress that "lights on" function at times so it stays dark.

I'm going to have to check and see if there's a way to get into my frunk to jump the battery if everything's dead and I can't get the door to open.

 

[BlkGS]

If all your BMW app does is remote start, then you do not have phone as a key - maybe that's the source of your misunderstanding. If it does have the actual PAK, then it does more than you said, and unclear why you'd leave that out.

Also, they all have backups. If my phone gets destroyed, I can take the card out of my wallet and drive the car home and use that until I get a new phone. Two modes of entry and operation, not one. You only have one, so if you drop your key in the drink at least you can sit in your remote started car while waiting for someone to bring you a key or a tow.

No, it does phone as a key too. I just don't find the rest of it useful. It has the card key thing too, but the card key doesn't remote start it (like the phone or fob can), so it's by far the worst of the 3 options to start it.

The fob for.the BMW is fairly compact (it's like half as thick as our expedition key), so it doesn't really bother me. Maybe if I was a girl and wore dresses or stuff without pockets it'd bother me more, but it doesn't. It's WAY smaller than my wallet, which is already fairly compact because I don't carry many cards or any cash.

Fob + Phone works best for me, but I wouldnt ever see the phone as my "main" device for the car.

 

[BlkGS]

PAAK was garbage in the MachE for the first year, but software updates have made it pretty much bulletproof now. In addition, there's a keypad on the door to unlock it and a code you can set on the big screen on the dash to start the car if you happen to drop your phone in the lake.

The car also lights up when you're about 20 feet away, but the doors won't open unless you're standing right next to the door with the fob or phone in your pocket. I wouldn't mind having a way to suppress that "lights on" function at times so it stays dark.

I'm going to have to check and see if there's a way to get into my frunk to jump the battery if everything's dead and I can't get the door to open.

Ford's keypad system is such an underrated feature. At least for people who might be on a boat, kayak, the beach, biking, really doing anything outdoors. Unfortunately Ford sees it as a cost adder that none of its competitors offer rather than a key differentiator in the market, and is making it a dealer installed.option on most vehicles. Modern cars are the race to the bottom.

Jaguar/Land Rover had a cool take on it too, their activity band. It was basically an RFID card like most have as a backup now, but was a rubberized band you could wear if you were doing outdoorsy stuff. Shame it was wasted on JLR, would be a killer feature on a Jeep or Subaru or GM.