Many questions - Need help (length, wake, accessories, etc.)

[Manic Mechanic]

I would like to say thanks in advance to any and all who reply because despite doing research for months now and reading all the available sources available I'm still left with some questions for more experienced owner/operators. Please be patient with my questions as I certainly appreciate your candor.

For some background I grew up on the water with my father having raced boats in his youth. We had a 16' Speedliner custom built fish/ski pad-hull boat which, in retrospect, I wish I would have bought. It seemed like all we would ever need, though as time has gone on I realize that lakes are getting more rough with wake/surf boats running around so that size would beat my wife/kids to a pulp. I have a 10, 7 and 2 year old currently and a wife who is accommodating to my wishes. I tried skiing for the first time in the last 20 years just recently and realize I'm not as young (40) as I used to be. I have wake boarded only a handful of times and surfed only once. I am now more interested in wake boarding and probably more surfing as time goes on. The kids like to tube for now, though both of the older kids recently learned to ski. I am located in the middle of Kansas so there aren't any oceans in my future. Local lakes, large and small, are what I'm going to be entertaining. I had an 18' Crownline many years ago and had to sell it as my oldest wasn't quite a year old and we had other interests. I currently have a 2005 Regal 2000 (20') with a 5.0 I/O and though we like it, I have fallen more in love with jet boats versus I/O or OB.

Here are my questions -
1. After having looked at my options, I believe the best manufacturer is Yamaha. Though I understand I can get more power from Rotax and the Vortex/Scarab - the issue is more from local dealer. I have faith in Yamaha and therefore what I'm looking at.

2. I currently have a 20' boat and storage can seem to be an issue, especially when you have a fully inflated towable and still wanting to stow it stow it somewhere when the kids are skiing. A 21' Yamaha isn't much larger and pretty much every (not all) recommendations are to go with the 24/25' boat. I don't think I have an issue with dealing with the larger boat for maneuvering but more the logistics of storage and when storing in a dock while vacationing. Have any of you run into an issue with those extra few feet?

3. I have never owned a wake boat of any sort. Is it worth it to get the "Wake Series" boats, or the E-Series, boats or can you just add some aftermarket ballast water bags with a wakebooster to help with the wake? I'll be completely honest I very much dislike surf boats because of the wake they make for other boats to deal with...but I also appreciate fully the fun they make for their owner. Is a "vanilla" Yamaha boat with added bells and whistles good enough after the fact or is it better to get what Yamaha is offering for wake options from the factory?

4. I have not been able to board the newest boats. Is there a significant difference between the 24' boats and the newer 25' boats? On this same line, is there a significant amount of wake/surf produced from the 21' or 24/25' boat with the same ballast setup?

5. Is the new "DRiVE" system worth it?

6. With the 25' version, is the supercharged setup worth it or is the maintenance/economy that much of an impact?

Again, I completely appreciate your candor and advice. When looking at spending, if new, potentially $60,000-90,000 I want to make sure I'm not making a mistake.

Side note, I will be selling my Regal for the new boat but also looking to sell my 2015 Charger Hellcat...if anyone would be at all interested. You won't find a nicer one anywhere around.

 

[Manic Mechanic]

@Bruce @Julian
I'm not one to ask for favors, however I posted this several days ago and have no replies. I'm not used to forum discussions and may have done something wrong. Please help me if I've done so. I appreciate your help.

 

[Joshua Miller]

Nothing wrong.. I would like to say we are all out enjoying our boats and have not had time to reply! I'll do my best to answer your questions but I'm sure others with more experience will give better advice.

1. I've only owned Yamahas and can't speak on Scarabs, but I do love the ease of maintaining these boats! Five years, two boats, and nothing more than routine oil and plugs. I'm finally getting the nerve to start audio and performance upgrades this fall.

2. I went from a 21ft to a 24ft and lost the ability to put it into the garage. Sucks but I learned to be ok with keeping it covered and outside, which is where it is now. You can spend the extra money for covered storage, and I would if you are planning on buying new. The first thing to go on these boats when they sit outside is the upholstery, which can get pretty expensive to repair/replace.

3. I own a stock AR240 with no ballast and I've only wakesurfed once on a friends 242x. Can't speak from direct experience but I know there are several members on here who have invested in aftermarket wake-shapers and external ballast bags and have pretty impressive wakes.. For the X or E series you are looking at $10k more at least so if you are only going to wakesurf occasionally then IMO I would save the money and upgrade when you can. That said, my next boat will be an E-series for the luxuries and the wife wants the bigger bimini top.

4/5/6. Can't help much, but seen nice wakes on both sizes. 25's aren't out on the street yet.

Pass on the Charger Hellcat, but would love to see pics!!

 

[tdonoughue]

I don't have many answers for you, but I will give you what I have...

2. I mostly hang at the same lake and only go to a handful of docks. But I have never had an issue... The extra space is worth it, IMHO.

4, 5 and 6. I think most people have not been on the new line of boats. Fewer still have been on the water in one to be able to answer those questions... Yamaha is still trying to get 2020's out (apparently had a bunch of them sitting waiting for windshields they couldn't get due to COVID). This is all new stuff. The problem with buying the first model year is that it is untested. All we have to really go by so far is what Yamaha says. But you get the latest and greatest. If you wait until next year you will probably find more people who have been on or able to drive a 2021 and many more opinions.

 

[Julian]

Never had an issue with docking a longer boat.

Yamahas are all round general purpose boats. They aren't fantastic wake sports boats, so if that is your focus, then you'll want a V drive "tractor".

Also, break up your posts into shorter posts with fewer questions...people tend to answer one question at a time on forums better.

 

[Julian]

Not many people have driven a boat with DRiVe on it....so very few can answer that. With no dealer meeting and no marketing demos its even worse.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Life is a gamble so just remember you will be sitting on the water enjoying your day while you decide if you made the right decision or not, it could be a lot worse LOL!, It is getting time to welcome the class of 2021

 

[J-RAD]

Welcome to the group @Manic Mechanic! Had I seen your post earlier I likely would have replied sooner. Post seem to slip off the feed rather quickly with the numerous discussions going on.

1. I think the Yamaha sounds right up your alley. A fun to drive family boat that's capable of fulfilling your occasional watersports needs.

2. 24' is the ideal for us. I've got 3 boys, 12, 6, and 3 and the grandma and grandpa that tag along. It's a perfect fit for size. The interior storage is incredible. Mine lives its life parked in my side drive under an awning. It's the next best thing to having it in doors.

3. As for the model choice. If you're planning watersports, and especially in the case of surfing, ballast is required. How you go about it is the bigger question. You definitely want to save yourself done time and energy with a system that is integrated vs trying to manually fill bags all over the boat. It could be so cumbersome, you'll quickly lose interest in having to set it up. The wake series boasts are 90% there but not perfect.

At the time I purchased, it was 24' or nothing, but the X model was out of reach. I did want ballast though. I worked it out with my dealer and they installed 3 bag 3 pump WakeMakers ballast system in my AR240. It was the BEST decision I made for making it watersports capable. I do have the 1 custom swim deck ballast bag for surfing that is external, but I've worked out a means of integrating an accessory hose for filling it too. If you're handy, you can do it yourself. There are a lot of folks out there who decide later down the line they want to surf their Yamaha's that struggle trying to outfit their boats. It is worth the up front investment.

As for the E-series. It's Nice! The throttle by wire is buttery smooth, the integrated GPS speed control is great (I added Ridesteady to mine), I'm envious of the large bimini.

4. The public won't see the new 24.5' model boats until December according to rumor.

5. To me the DRiVE system is something I could do without on the new SD... I have no problem maneuvering my boat without.

6. 500hp sounds like a TON of fun, but my AR240 hits mid 40's at 4,500ft elevation and handles my 2,250lb surf setup just fine. The 255 and 275 model boasts are the first models to be equip with twin SVHO engines but the 195's have had them for years and they're very reliable.

Looking forward to see what you end up with. Look me up when you're ready for some equipment. I've got access to about anything. I'll hook you up with some great discounts.

Transom Watersports | Wakeboard | Wakesurf | Vest | SUP

Best gear behind any boat for wakeboarding, wakesurfing, wakefoil, wakesurffoil and SUP. Life is better behind a boat with Transom Watersports.

www.transomwatersports.com

 

[TimW451]

RE: boat size

I’m not familiar with your Regal, but looking at pictures online I think it sized up like a Yamaha such as a 21’ in the bow and a 19’ in the helm. While the Regal does have the sun pad you’ll have a two level swim platform with the Yamaha. So, the 21 could still be bigger. (It is 21.5’ too.)

As for 21’ vs 24’, I think $ will make that decision. For me, I was buying used and 24’ were more common. After that I found it easier to sell the CFO on buying a boat due to the console on the 24’ which could hold a porta potti. I also thought the 24’ would hold 8 more comfortably than the 21’. Everything else was equal for me, but do consider if the extra length, height, or weight impact where you keep the boat or how you move it around.

 

[Manic Mechanic]

Thanks to everyone for the input.
@Joshua Miller - I appreciate the input for the aftermarket ballast. Currently nobody wakesurfs which is why I'm not looking at getting a pure wake boat. I'd love to put mine in the garage also, but I'll need to get rid of other stuff if that's going to happen anyway.

@tdonoughue I would agree also on waiting to see how they actually are. I'm like a dog with a bone right now and just want to jump into something. I have a tendency to buy brand new...and it's got its ups and downs. Bought the brand new RAM as well as the Charger Hellcat when the first came out. Gamble for sure, not sure if I'm ready to do that necessarily with a boat.

@Julian I was thinking that it would be better to get my thoughts out of the way in one post, but I completely see your point in trying to break it up. I'm not as young as I used to be so getting an inboard wake boat isn't something I'm really excited about. Having the shallow water ability (especially with some of the lakes around here with hidden debris/sticks) with the Yamaha is one of the things I'm really interested in.

@J-RAD I appreciate the input on the wake and other options. As you've said, it's easier to have it pre-installed if the investment is possible. Also something probably that helps with resale I would presume. I'd like to see what the numbers are for speed and also economy with the SVHO. Power takes fuel, but there is a point of diminishing returns also...not to mention the 255 with the SVHO's is getting up there in price.

@TimW451 I am comfortable with the size of what I have to a point. Trying to walk around and find storage is sometimes an issue which is why I'm curious just how much bitter the 24.5' will seem compared to the 21. My wife and I are going to plan a road trip to Tulsa to walk around on some since that's the closest Yamaha dealer. Not sure if any boat shows will happen this coming year but if it does then it's generally January. I thought about resale also. The 24' is more common because it's more popular but I'm wondering if a 21' would sell quickly also because it's not common and therefore hard to find. Decisions, decisions.

Thanks again everyone for your insight. Much to my wife's chagrin, I tend to research the heck out of things before I buy and given that this is no small purchase I want to have all the information I can. I appreciate it.

 

[Manic Mechanic]

Nothing wrong.. I would like to say we are all out enjoying our boats and have not had time to reply! I'll do my best to answer your questions but I'm sure others with more experience will give better advice.

1. I've only owned Yamahas and can't speak on Scarabs, but I do love the ease of maintaining these boats! Five years, two boats, and nothing more than routine oil and plugs. I'm finally getting the nerve to start audio and performance upgrades this fall.

2. I went from a 21ft to a 24ft and lost the ability to put it into the garage. Sucks but I learned to be ok with keeping it covered and outside, which is where it is now. You can spend the extra money for covered storage, and I would if you are planning on buying new. The first thing to go on these boats when they sit outside is the upholstery, which can get pretty expensive to repair/replace.

3. I own a stock AR240 with no ballast and I've only wakesurfed once on a friends 242x. Can't speak from direct experience but I know there are several members on here who have invested in aftermarket wake-shapers and external ballast bags and have pretty impressive wakes.. For the X or E series you are looking at $10k more at least so if you are only going to wakesurf occasionally then IMO I would save the money and upgrade when you can. That said, my next boat will be an E-series for the luxuries and the wife wants the bigger bimini top.

4/5/6. Can't help much, but seen nice wakes on both sizes. 25's aren't out on the street yet.

Pass on the Charger Hellcat, but would love to see pics!!

As requested:

 

[Enduro900]

If you can swing it buy the 255XE or XD, you like power (Charger Hellcat) so get power

I know you mentioned Yamaha, but FYI the Vortex VRX gives you 600hp, a pump-out head (not even available on the Yamaha) and for a few grand less.

And the Scarab is a true 25ft with great flex-seating for people watching water sports, and legal capacity is 13 vs 12 for yamaha....and again available with 600hp/full pump-out head.

Now which would i chose??? Won’t know until i see each in person AND see some true owner reports of the XE/XD’s (DRIVE, Push-button Wakebooster, overall performance, etc).

 

[Manic Mechanic]

If you can swing it buy the 255XE or XD, you like power (Charger Hellcat) so get power

I know you mentioned Yamaha, but FYI the Vortex VRX gives you 600hp, a pump-out head (not even available on the Yamaha) and for a few grand less.

And the Scarab is a true 25ft with great flex-seating for people watching water sports, and legal capacity is 13 vs 12 for yamaha....and again available with 600hp/full pump-out head.

Now which would i chose??? Won’t know until i see each in person AND see some true owner reports of the XE/XD’s (DRIVE, Push-button Wakebooster, overall performance, etc).

Yamaha dealers in this area are a bit closer and easy to find people to work on the engines as well. My concern with Scarab is the dealer availability should something come up. I've heard however that they're quite a bit more fun as far as handling/maneuverability.

 

[brian86992]

The quickest way to get an answer on the internet is to post the wrong answer. You'll be corrected by 10 people before you can blink.

To your point [HASH=15]#2,[/HASH] not saying you shouldn't go with a 25' class but take a look at the 21' before writing it off for lack of space. The 21' Yamaha really feels like a 23' and at least on my FSH, the layout is so space efficient it's fantastic. I almost always have 6-9 adults on my boat and other than needing someone to get up to open the console it never feels crowded.

This bit is pure personal bias and speculation but it would make me nervous to buy a Scarab (I looked at them alongside the FSH) because they are so niche compared to the Yamaha and the recent announcement that the brand is up for sale only adds to that uncertainty.

 

[Enduro900]

The quickest way to get an answer on the internet is to post the wrong answer. You'll be corrected by 10 people before you can blink.

To your point [HASH=15]#2,[/HASH] not saying you shouldn't go with a 25' class but take a look at the 21' before writing it off for lack of space. The 21' Yamaha really feels like a 23' and at least on my FSH, the layout is so space efficient it's fantastic. I almost always have 6-9 adults on my boat and other than needing someone to get up to open the console it never feels crowded.

This bit is pure personal bias and speculation but it would make me nervous to buy a Scarab (I looked at them alongside the FSH) because they are so niche compared to the Yamaha and the recent announcement that the brand is up for sale only adds to that uncertainty.

I’ll agree with you about the Scarab future uncertainty......how do you sell off a brand that is underperforming?

Also the dealer network for Vortex and scarab both are limited...yamaha i have 3 within 40 minutes.....