Milky/Foamy oil in a 2008 AR210 with 825 hours

[cdave2000]

I mistakenly overfilled the oil to the high mark on this years oil change (I know, I know...). Anyway, after about 5 hours on the new oil, I realized what I had done so I went to extract it down to the correct levels. The port engine's oil is milky and very foamy. The other engine looks fine. I read that if the oil is too high, the crankshaft can aerate the oil giving it the illusion of water in the oil. This could also saturate the air filters with oil and foul the plugs. My air filters seem fine and the engine runs strong other than i think I have a fouled plug by the sound it makes at low rpm's. Also, I can't see any evidence of water in the oil (water beads, etc), but I'm certainly not an expert on what to look for. I placed a sample in a glass to see if it separates. After 24 hours, it's still an opaque mixture with no separation other than a thin black layer on top (dirt?). Maybe it's gas in the oil?
Hoping aeration is the case, I changed the oil. After a quick 10 minute cruise on the lake, I checked it again. It is just as milky and foamy as before. I know an oil change doesn't get all the oil out, but I would imagine any leftover aerated oil in the engine would only dilute the new oil a little which is not the case for me.
So I'm looking for recommendations on what to do next (check compression? Try another oil change to get the rest of the oil?). I've read the posts on here about the exhaust manifold, stuck injector leaking fuel, and cracks in the case or head, so I'm considering those as possibilities but I'm hoping it's something simpler.
This boat has never left central Florida, so freezing during the winter isn't a possibility, and I run it year round (never sits more than 2-3 weeks). Also, it's a fresh water boat and YDS reports no problems.

Thanks!

 

[seadude]

That's an impressive number of hours! Any other symptoms of a blown head gasket (white smoke)?
If you're sure you haven't flooded the engine with water, time for a compression check.

 

[cdave2000]

At wot there is a little white smoke, but no more then it always has been. Last week a friend thought he was helping me by starting one engine while I was pulling up the anchor. He didn't get above maybe 3k-4k rpm and it was only for about 20 seconds before I stopped him. The engine fired right up and ran fine.
I'll buy a gauge and check compression over the next several days and report back.

 

[Julian]

You could send an oil sample in to determine what is in the oil....

http://blackstone-labs.com/OrderTestKit

 

[cdave2000]

Update: I changed the oil three more times today (four oil changes so far). I haven't changed the oil filter yet because I was hoping to get it mostly cleared up first.
I monitored the exhaust more closely this time. There is a lot of steam coming out of the exhaust in that engine. I am certain now that there is water in the engine.
The question now is where did it come from? Could it have been from when my friend drove my boat with one engine? It couldn't have been more than 20 seconds, maybe 30 seconds before I realized what he was doing. I can't recall how high the RPMs were but let's say 4K. Is that enough to flood the other engine with water? I immediately started that engine not even considering hydro lock because it was so quick.
After the fourth oil change, the oil does look better than when I first noticed the problem, but it's still far away from being good. I'm extracting the oil so I'm only getting about half of it per oil change. I am trying to determine if that was a one time occurrence, or is water still getting into the engine somehow.
Any ideas on how many times oil needs to be changed? I heard around five, but I don't know if that is with extraction or a complete drain.
My next step is a compression test and examine the plugs.

 

[Bruce]

Have you tried removing the drain plug at the back bottom of the engine to drain all of the oil?

 

[Bruce]

See this thread for info on a complete oil change https://jetboaters.net/threads/oil-change-on-mr-1-how-to-perform-a-complete-drain.3805/

 

[cdave2000]

Have you tried removing the drain plug at the back bottom of the engine to drain all of the oil?

No, but I know it's the best way to do it. I'll look over the 'how to' notes on the forum and give it a shot.

 

[bronze_10]

i have a 2008 230... i hope to get to 825 hours on it before i have to worry about this stuff!! Good luck with the diagnosis... i hope it is simple.

 

[buckbuck]

From my experience, 30 seconds of operating on one engine will not get water to make it to the engine. Sounds more like a head gasket to me.

 

[itsdgm]

There's a few ways that water can enter the oil. I don't think that there's any chance that running one engine for less than a minute would get water into the engine. And if it did, it would be into the cylinders resulting in hydro lock not water in the oil.

Possible water sources (off the top of my head, not particular order):

1. Cracked block
2. Cracked head
3. Head gasket
4. Leaky water pipe O ring on cylinder head. There's two of these I believe. They are located on top of cylinder head. One is on the water pipe coming through the valve cover. I'm pretty sure the second is located under a block off plate also on valve cover. A leak here could be detected by simply pulling the rubber covers on top of the valve covers (with the valve cover in place) and looking for water in those tubes.
5. Water leak inside the oil cooler. It might be possible to check for a leak here by removing and blocking off the water cooling lines going in and out of the cooler and adding very little air psi and looking for a leakdown.
6. Exhaust manifold corrosion. I'm not sure who it was, possibly @cybuch that had an exhaust manifold issue that resulted in water/oil intrusion.

Check this topic for further research and add your experience to that thread. https://jetboaters.net/threads/2005-ar230-saga-continues-now-i-have-water-in-the-oil.10555/

Good luck. Keep us posted.

 

[Julian]

I had a friend driving my boat while I was skiing behind it and he only started one engine and went full throttle for as long as it took me to realize something was wrong....probably 10 seconds ....no water in engine.

 

[cdave2000]

From my experience, 30 seconds of operating on one engine will not get water to make it to the engine. Sounds more like a head gasket to me.

Yeah that's what I'm afraid of. It's a bit out of my comfort zone to do that kind of work.

 

[cdave2000]

There's a few ways that water can enter the oil. I don't think that there's any chance that running one engine for less than a minute would get water into the engine. And if it did, it would be into the cylinders resulting in hydro lock not water in the oil.

Possible water sources (off the top of my head, not particular order):

1. Cracked block
2. Cracked head
3. Head gasket
4. Leaky water pipe O ring on cylinder head. There's two of these I believe. They are located on top of cylinder head. One is on the water pipe coming through the valve cover. I'm pretty sure the second is located under a block off plate also on valve cover. A leak here could be detected by simply pulling the rubber covers on top of the valve covers (with the valve cover in place) and looking for water in those tubes.
5. Water leak inside the oil cooler. It might be possible to check for a leak here by removing and blocking off the water cooling lines going in and out of the cooler and adding very little air psi and looking for a leakdown.
6. Exhaust manifold corrosion. I'm not sure who it was, possibly @cybuch that had an exhaust manifold issue that resulted in water/oil intrusion.

Check this topic for further research and add your experience to that thread. https://jetboaters.net/threads/2005-ar230-saga-continues-now-i-have-water-in-the-oil.10555/

Good luck. Keep us posted.

Thanks for the great info! I'll start with the water pipe oring as that seems the easiest.
I'll report back with that plus the compression readings Wednesday or Thursday.

 

[cybuch]

To test for water in the oil, get a sample of the oil and a hot plate, get it really hot and drip a few drops of oil on the hot plate, if it sizzles and pops, its water. Over filling the oil will not overfill the block with oil, it will definitely over fill the head and thus your intake. Are you getting any water at all dripping from the port side of the engine? I mean even the smallest amount?

 

[cdave2000]

To test for water in the oil, get a sample of the oil and a hot plate, get it really hot and drip a few drops of oil on the hot plate, if it sizzles and pops, its water. Over filling the oil will not overfill the block with oil, it will definitely over fill the head and thus your intake. Are you getting any water at all dripping from the port side of the engine? I mean even the smallest amount?

I tried the hot plate method and it did pop and fizzle. Water it is.
I checked around the engine while at no-wake speed and couldn't find any dripping water. I didn't specifically focus on the port side (Intake side, right?), but I'll check again.

 

[cybuch]

Damn, I meant the starboard side, exhaust side. Run the boat in the water a bit at a good pace, then stop and shut it down. Feel around block just behind and under the exhaust manifold, there are two hoses, see if you can feel any water at all where those hoses meet the block (be careful, it will be hot). If you can, its a cracked block for sure. Mine didn't start leaking water externally first, it was water in the oil and then after a few more outings, the water was leaking external. I thought it was bad hoses, but it wasn't.

 

[cdave2000]

There's a few ways that water can enter the oil. I don't think that there's any chance that running one engine for less than a minute would get water into the engine. And if it did, it would be into the cylinders resulting in hydro lock not water in the oil.

Possible water sources (off the top of my head, not particular order):

1. Cracked block
2. Cracked head
3. Head gasket
4. Leaky water pipe O ring on cylinder head. There's two of these I believe. They are located on top of cylinder head. One is on the water pipe coming through the valve cover. I'm pretty sure the second is located under a block off plate also on valve cover. A leak here could be detected by simply pulling the rubber covers on top of the valve covers (with the valve cover in place) and looking for water in those tubes.
5. Water leak inside the oil cooler. It might be possible to check for a leak here by removing and blocking off the water cooling lines going in and out of the cooler and adding very little air psi and looking for a leakdown.
6. Exhaust manifold corrosion. I'm not sure who it was, possibly @cybuch that had an exhaust manifold issue that resulted in water/oil intrusion.

Check this topic for further research and add your experience to that thread. https://jetboaters.net/threads/2005-ar230-saga-continues-now-i-have-water-in-the-oil.10555/

Good luck. Keep us posted.

I think I should pull the exhaust maifold and check for corrosion, but before I tear into that, do you think that can happen to a fresh water boat?

 

[itsdgm]

I think I should pull the exhaust maifold and check for corrosion, but before I tear into that, do you think that can happen to a fresh water boat?

Honestly, it's not very likely that it's cracked or compromised. Also, it would be a slim chance that water could get from there back into the oil through the exhaust.

If you decide to pull the exhaust manifold:
1. Remove both hose clamps on the rubber exhaust section on the front of the engine.
2. Slide the rubber section away from the exhaust manifold. This will reveal a second/inner rubber exhaust hose.
3. Loosen the hose clamp closest to the exhaust manifold on the inner hose.
4. Loosen the 9 or 10 bolts on the exhaust manifold. This should allow you to slide it off the head and out of the rubber coupler loosened in step 3.

If you're pulling the starboard engine exhaust you might need to remove the air filter housing first. Also, Keep a close eye for the exhaust manifold alignment pins.

Pulling the exhaust this way will prevent you from a giant headache of aligning the manifold and the exhaust elbow that both have alignment pins. Also, you won't need to replace the exhaust gasket between the manifold and the elbow.

Anyway, I'd check the oil cooler before tearing into the exhaust. And then check the exhaust as part of tearing down the engine to look at the head for a crack.

 

[cdave2000]

That makes sense, I'll check the oil cooler first. Thanks for the great info on the exhaust manifold!