New PerfectPass product??

[MidnightRider]

The new PP is posted to JBP website - not seeing anything earth shattering here. Maybe hints at a less complicated install? But did we really need a less complicated install - I thought R-S was dead simple install the way it was. Then there is the glaring absence of the "knob" style interface.

I think it was inevitable that PP did this, even if JBP didn't push them, but all I see here is maybe some performance tweaks that will push R-S to be even better and that's a good thing.
Maybe there are details I'm missing. This is definitely a contender as a competitive option/alternative to R-S, but given what I see here, I'd still be an R-S customer if I was choosing today - did I mention the knob interface - sorry I'm a believer in it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Perfect Pass Stargazer Wake Edition S

PerfectPass has totally reimagined, redesigned and simplified the GPS Star Gazer Wake Edition for most Yamaha Sport Boats**. The same engineering team that designed speed control systems used in Pro Events around the World has once again set a new standard for jet boats with the industry’s...

jetboatpilot.com

Features:

• Nearly a “Plug & Play” installation process for boats with wall mounted Accelerator Position Sensors (APS). No servos to install, no constant power required, no messy RPM Cables to connect and no wires to Splice.
• High quality Automotive Type Connectors that meet NEMA Standards.
• Genuine Garmin weather proof GPS Receiver.
• Engineered to be fail safe. Any loss of power to PerfectPass or any cable failure to PerfectPass will result in full normal operation of boat.
• Ideal for Surf speeds from 8 mph and up.
• Simply set the speed, throttle up and PerfectPass will take over automatically once the set point is reached.
• All new “Two Stage” engagement process developed exclusively for Yamaha Systems to provide our most seamless engagement ever.
• Incredibly smooth pull that holds speed to within a few 10ths of a mph and no rpm oscillation.
• Includes your choice of our 3.5 inch round Display Gauge or External Display with Mount for boats with “Connext”. (No extra charge)
• The LCD screen with adjustable backlight shows you just what you need to see in a clear, uncluttered format. No complicated Menus to scroll through.
• Available in Single and Twin Engine formats.

You are backed by 25 years’ experience (and nearly 70,000 customers worldwide) along with the best customer service team in the business. Our Technical Support Team is full time, year around and our warehouse is fully stocked just in case you need assistance.

 

[tabbibus]

Sausage. It is true what they say about sausage. Moving on now.

lol. so true. I just wanted to enjoy my big fat juicy sausage!

 

[J-RAD]

The new PP is posted to JBP website - not seeing anything earth shattering here. Maybe hints at a less complicated install? But did we really need a less complicated install - I thought R-S was dead simple install the way it was. Then there is the glaring absence of the "knob" style interface.

I think it was inevitable that PP did this, even if JBP didn't push them, but all I see here is maybe some performance tweaks that will push R-S to be even better and that's a good thing.
Maybe there are details I'm missing. This is definitely a contender as a competitive option/alternative to R-S, but given what I see here, I'd still be an R-S customer if I was choosing today - did I mention the knob interface - sorry I'm a believer in it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Perfect Pass Stargazer Wake Edition S

PerfectPass has totally reimagined, redesigned and simplified the GPS Star Gazer Wake Edition for most Yamaha Sport Boats**. The same engineering team that designed speed control systems used in Pro Events around the World has once again set a new standard for jet boats with the industry’s...

jetboatpilot.com

View attachment 97356View attachment 97357


Features:

• Nearly a “Plug & Play” installation process for boats with wall mounted Accelerator Position Sensors (APS). No servos to install, no constant power required, no messy RPM Cables to connect and no wires to Splice.
• High quality Automotive Type Connectors that meet NEMA Standards.
• Genuine Garmin weather proof GPS Receiver.
• Engineered to be fail safe. Any loss of power to PerfectPass or any cable failure to PerfectPass will result in full normal operation of boat.
• Ideal for Surf speeds from 8 mph and up.
• Simply set the speed, throttle up and PerfectPass will take over automatically once the set point is reached.
• All new “Two Stage” engagement process developed exclusively for Yamaha Systems to provide our most seamless engagement ever.
• Incredibly smooth pull that holds speed to within a few 10ths of a mph and no rpm oscillation.
• Includes your choice of our 3.5 inch round Display Gauge or External Display with Mount for boats with “Connext”. (No extra charge)
• The LCD screen with adjustable backlight shows you just what you need to see in a clear, uncluttered format. No complicated Menus to scroll through.
• Available in Single and Twin Engine formats.

You are backed by 25 years’ experience (and nearly 70,000 customers worldwide) along with the best customer service team in the business. Our Technical Support Team is full time, year around and our warehouse is fully stocked just in case you need assistance.

No mention of RPM mode or engine synchronization...

 

[swatski]

View attachment 97346

--

The new PP is posted to JBP website - not seeing anything earth shattering here. Maybe hints at a less complicated install? But did we really need a less complicated install - I thought R-S was dead simple install the way it was. Then there is the glaring absence of the "knob" style interface.

I think it was inevitable that PP did this, even if JBP didn't push them, but all I see here is maybe some performance tweaks that will push R-S to be even better and that's a good thing.
Maybe there are details I'm missing. This is definitely a contender as a competitive option/alternative to R-S, but given what I see here, I'd still be an R-S customer if I was choosing today - did I mention the knob interface - sorry I'm a believer in it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Perfect Pass Stargazer Wake Edition S

PerfectPass has totally reimagined, redesigned and simplified the GPS Star Gazer Wake Edition for most Yamaha Sport Boats**. The same engineering team that designed speed control systems used in Pro Events around the World has once again set a new standard for jet boats with the industry’s...

jetboatpilot.com

View attachment 97356View attachment 97357


Features:

• Nearly a “Plug & Play” installation process for boats with wall mounted Accelerator Position Sensors (APS). No servos to install, no constant power required, no messy RPM Cables to connect and no wires to Splice.
• High quality Automotive Type Connectors that meet NEMA Standards.
• Genuine Garmin weather proof GPS Receiver.
• Engineered to be fail safe. Any loss of power to PerfectPass or any cable failure to PerfectPass will result in full normal operation of boat.
• Ideal for Surf speeds from 8 mph and up.
• Simply set the speed, throttle up and PerfectPass will take over automatically once the set point is reached.
• All new “Two Stage” engagement process developed exclusively for Yamaha Systems to provide our most seamless engagement ever.
• Incredibly smooth pull that holds speed to within a few 10ths of a mph and no rpm oscillation.
• Includes your choice of our 3.5 inch round Display Gauge or External Display with Mount for boats with “Connext”. (No extra charge)
• The LCD screen with adjustable backlight shows you just what you need to see in a clear, uncluttered format. No complicated Menus to scroll through.
• Available in Single and Twin Engine formats.

You are backed by 25 years’ experience (and nearly 70,000 customers worldwide) along with the best customer service team in the business. Our Technical Support Team is full time, year around and our warehouse is fully stocked just in case you need assistance.

FWIW I’ve had both.
The PP screen is shit and operating the menus with arrows on the water is not easy.
Those PP screens poop out pretty reliably.

There is no comparison with a vastly superior RideSteady system, with the knob and twin engine sync.
The throttle sync alone is a winner.

@JetBoatPilot

—

 

[Scottie]

I see two things right off, a possible pro, and what looks like a huge con.

Pro for PP:

• Engineered to be fail safe. Any loss of power to PerfectPass or any cable failure to PerfectPass will result in full normal operation of boat.

I did have a node failure with Ridesteady shortly after installation. It was really my fault. I installed one of the throttle nodes in a spot that, unbeknownst to me, gets a healthy dose of water when caught in a downpour. That's unlikely and I've since remedied it anyway. RS was awesome with troubleshooting and shipped a new one overnight. However, when it happened, I had an engine stuck at idle. Another point is that I could've simply unplugged the failed node and reconnected in factory config, but I wasn't thinking clearly. Point is, a seamless failover to factory would've been nice.

Con for PP:

• Incredibly smooth pull that holds speed to within a few 10ths of a mph and no rpm oscillation.

If this is true, it's a non-starter. My RS unit agressively manipulates the throttle and holds the exact speed I set, all the time, in my surf profile. Also, the multiple profiles that I can configure to independently adjust that agressiveness means I can taylor it to my activity. Maybe the PP can do that too, but if best case scenario is "within a few tenths" then it's not even an option for surfing.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

I see two things right off, a possible pro, and what looks like a huge con.

Pro for PP:

• Engineered to be fail safe. Any loss of power to PerfectPass or any cable failure to PerfectPass will result in full normal operation of boat.

I did have a node failure with Ridesteady shortly after installation. It was really my fault. I installed one of the throttle nodes in a spot that, unbeknownst to me, gets a healthy dose of water when caught in a downpour. That's unlikely and I've since remedied it anyway. RS was awesome with troubleshooting and shipped a new one overnight. However, when it happened, I had an engine stuck at idle. Another point is that I could've simply unplugged the failed node and reconnected in factory config, but I wasn't thinking clearly. Point is, a seamless failover to factory would've been nice.

Con for PP:

• Incredibly smooth pull that holds speed to within a few 10ths of a mph and no rpm oscillation.

If this is true, it's a non-starter. My RS unit agressively manipulates the throttle and holds the exact speed I set, all the time, in my surf profile. Also, the multiple profiles that I can configure to independently adjust that agressiveness means I can taylor it to my activity. Maybe the PP can do that too, but if best case scenario is "within a few tenths" then it's not even an option for surfing.

We've noted that our PP unit holds within 1-2 tenths. I think that is common for other GPS units. I'm not sure any speed control can keep the speed dead on all the time. There are so many factors such as wind, current, rider pull, wakes from other boats, etc. I feel that plus or minus .2 has worked well during our testing.

The first item listed was part of the technically superior talk. We've experienced a glitch also with our RS unit which resulted in the boat's left engine running rough and basically going into a limp mode. We spoke with the folks at RS about how to fix it but could not get it resolved after verifying that the installation was done correctly. The PP system will not cause the boat to go into a limp mode if it malfunctions. It returns control back to the boat in that sort of situation if I understand it correctly.

 

[Scottie]

We've noted that our PP unit holds within 1-2 tenths. I think that is common for other GPS units. I'm not sure any speed control can keep the speed dead on all the time. There are so many factors such as wind, current, rider pull, wakes from other boats, etc. I feel that plus or minus .2 has worked well during our testing.

If that's the case, I would adjust the wording on that. "A few tenths" doesn't sound like .1 or .2, to me, and I think that's a big point.

In my experience, once we've reached speed, RS is within .1 all the time, at least when I have it in a profile that lets it do so.

 

[Spooling]

I think it's a bit much to claim that a brand new PP system is "technically superior" based on the fact that it's been designed with some fail safes built in. In real world situations there's always the potential that even with those fail safes things could still go wrong. It's new and unproven at this point. Time will tell.

 

[Jameson Clark]

We've noted that our PP unit holds within 1-2 tenths. I think that is common for other GPS units. I'm not sure any speed control can keep the speed dead on all the time. There are so many factors such as wind, current, rider pull, wakes from other boats, etc. I feel that plus or minus .2 has worked well during our testing.

The first item listed was part of the technically superior talk. We've experienced a glitch also with our RS unit which resulted in the boat's left engine running rough and basically going into a limp mode. We spoke with the folks at RS about how to fix it but could not get it resolved after verifying that the installation was done correctly. The PP system will not cause the boat to go into a limp mode if it malfunctions. It returns control back to the boat in that sort of situation if I understand it correctly.

Here is a concern of mine. You are now the exclusive dealer for these for now right? Yet, you end your statement with "if I understand it correctly."

If you are THE guy on this system, you need to have guaranteed info.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

If that's the case, I would adjust the wording on that. "A few tenths" doesn't sound like .1 or .2, to me, and I think that's a big point.

In my experience, once we've reached speed, RS is within .1 all the time, at least when I have it in a profile that lets it do so.

Good thought. I'll adjust.

 

[MidnightRider]

I think it's a bit much to claim that a brand new PP system is "technically superior" based on the fact that it's been designed with some fail safes built in. In real world situations there's always the potential that even with those fail safes things could still go wrong. It's new and unproven at this point. Time will tell.

Yeah I agree, kind of a stretch and like you said time will tell if there is anything superior in the software. R-S has been pretty stable system for me. But full disclosure I have also experienced this glitch "a glitch also with our RS unit which resulted in the boat's left engine running rough and basically going into a limp mode". For me it was the starboard engine and only happened one time in all the many hours I've used R-S but the only thing that resolved it was disconnecting the R-S APS and RPM harnesses completely, restart and stop the engine once and then reconnect R-S harnesses again. To be fair I can't 100% confirm R-S was the issue because there is also the "time taken to disconnect/reconnect the harness" as a possible contributing factor in the issue resolving, but R-S did seem to be at least suspect.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

I think it's a bit much to claim that a brand new PP system is "technically superior" based on the fact that it's been designed with some fail safes built in. In real world situations there's always the potential that even with those fail safes things could still go wrong. It's new and unproven at this point. Time will tell.

There are some other items that we'll delineate today or Monday on the site. The guys at RS are a great group and make a great product. We're not trying to throw off. But the facts are that PP has been in the game for 25 years. In that time I am sure they've learned a lesson or two that the RS guys have not. My contacts are telling me that there are technical advantages and I trust their analysis.

Time will tell. In the end, just like Coke and Pepsi there will still be RS and PP. There is room enough for competition. We're very familiar with that. We'll try to make the case why we have the superior product and they'll do the same. We won't down the RS guys, but we will try to state the facts as we see them.

As mentioned earlier by others in this thread, competition is a good thing. It forces manufacturers to innovate. This new product is a good thing. It gives people choices and keeps the makers on their toes. Believe me, we are well acquainted with staying on our toes. Innovate or die is commonly said around here and we live by that philosophy.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

Here is a concern of mine. You are now the exclusive dealer for these for now right? Yet, you end your statement with "if I understand it correctly."

If you are THE guy on this system, you need to have guaranteed info.

We're still getting fully up to speed on all the technicalities of the new system. It literally just got green lighted for public release two days ago. We'll get there.

 

[Spooling]

There are some other items that we'll delineate today or Monday on the site. The guys at RS are a great group and make a great product. We're not trying to throw off. But the facts are that PP has been in the game for 25 years. In that time I am sure they've learned a lesson or two that the RS guys have not. My contacts are telling me that there are technical advantages and I trust their analysis.

Time will tell. In the end, just like Coke and Pepsi there will still be RS and PP. There is room enough for competition. We're very familiar with that. We'll try to make the case why we have the superior product and they'll do the same. We won't down the RS guys, but we will try to state the facts as we see them.

As mentioned earlier by others in this thread, competition is a good thing. It forces manufacturers to innovate. This new product is a good thing. It gives people choices and keeps the makers on their toes. Believe me, we are well acquainted with staying on our toes. Innovate or die is commonly said around here and we live by that philosophy.

Experience wise, the same argument could be made in favour of RS; that it has many more years experience dealing with Yamaha drive by wire throttle controls than PP.

From what I've seen so far you're claiming that PP is superior and it seems like it's based on conjecture. It would be nice just to see JBP list what PP offers, rather than without full knowledge, subtly or not so subtly bash the competition.

Let the buyers decide what they want based on the feature set, cost, etc. Leave it to the unbiased independent reviewers to assess which is the superior or the right product for people's needs.

 

[Ancient canoe]

I think you guys are taking a marketing phrase a bit too literally. Technically superior is a subjective term.

 

[Ridesteady]

I see two things right off, a possible pro, and what looks like a huge con.

Pro for PP:

• Engineered to be fail safe. Any loss of power to PerfectPass or any cable failure to PerfectPass will result in full normal operation of boat.

One of the many misleading "features" I noticed right off the bat. From their claim, you could cut any cable on the Perfectpass system and you would still have "full normal operation of boat". So, you could cut the cable between their "throttle interface" and the APS, or their "throttle interface" and the factory wiring harness and still have "full normal operation of boat" (even though now nothing is even connected to the APS or the engine computer)? I'm afraid not.

What they're probably referring to is that if the cable that goes from their "master module" (what we call the "CPU") to their "throttle interface" gets cut, that you would still have "full normal operation" of the boat. That means that they may be powering their "throttle interfaces" from the 5V lines supplied to the APS. We have not seen their system yet, so this is our assumption about how they're achieving this. Note that we have not once had a customer report that the CPU to throttle node cable ever having got severed, or frankly have any issue at all.

The APS sensor is analog. Typically in analog systems, the power and ground provided have been separated from the digital side because the digital side is quite electrically "noisy" and you want analog sensors to have clean power. By powering the throttle nodes from the APS sensor's power, you make assumptions about the load it can handle (potentially causing long term thermal / reliability issues with the engine computer's 5V regulator), and also risk dumping digital noise and voltage drop from your system onto that clean sensor power, which may affect the APS signal or other sensor's signals.

They list this as a "feature", presumably because they had no other choice. They have no "standby" power as Ridesteady does, which keeps the system active beyond when the engines are turned off. So, they had to power their "throttle interfaces" externally, as their Master Module would be dead at engine key off, but the engine computers would still be active. This would result in a check engine light / limp mode without external power to their "throttle interfaces".

So really the only "advantage" they have is if the "master module" to "throttle interface" cable were to be cut, then presumably their "throttle interfaces" would still be powered by the APS sensor's 5V lines. Hard to say what they would happen if it were cut in the middle of speed control operation. Again, we've never once had a report of this cable ever being damaged. If that cable were to be cut on the RS systems, the throttle nodes would lose power and the engine computers would immediately throw the check engine light / go into limp mode (a considerably safer option IMO than continuing on as if nothing ever happened). If you had to, you could reconnect the engine wiring harness to the APS sensor to bypass Ridesteady, but I imagine if that cable got cut you would have bigger problems on your hand.

One last point about this. Give some thought about how a system should be wired. When you connect a stereo amplifier, does all the power come through the ignition switch? Or is it powered from the battery (i.e. "constant 12V"), with the ignition switch being simply a signal to power on the amplifier? The Perfectpass system draws all its power (for the master module / display / GPS, anyway) through the key switched 12V power. I believe this is what got them into trouble on their mechanical-throttle Yamaha version. It was drawing so much power through the key / ignition switch that it caused issues with "no wake mode", etc. It's just not the right way to do it, in this competitor's opinion.

 

[Ridesteady]

I did have a node failure with Ridesteady shortly after installation. It was really my fault. I installed one of the throttle nodes in a spot that, unbeknownst to me, gets a healthy dose of water when caught in a downpour. That's unlikely and I've since remedied it anyway. RS was awesome with troubleshooting and shipped a new one overnight. However, when it happened, I had an engine stuck at idle. Another point is that I could've simply unplugged the failed node and reconnected in factory config, but I wasn't thinking clearly. Point is, a seamless failover to factory would've been nice.

You're correct in that the throttle nodes need to stay dry. However, I doubt their system can handle water ingress and still operate normally (which in your case caused the circuit board traces to corrode to where they were completely open). As far as I know, they don't even conformal coat their boards (which is a labor-intensive, expensive process for us) to deal with air moisture / humidity.

 

[J-RAD]

 

[MidnightRider]

One of the many misleading "features" I noticed right off the bat. From their claim, you could cut any cable on the Perfectpass system and you would still have "full normal operation of boat". So, you could cut the cable between their "throttle interface" and the APS, or their "throttle interface" and the factory wiring harness and still have "full normal operation of boat" (even though now nothing is even connected to the APS or the engine computer)? I'm afraid not.

What they're probably referring to is that if the cable that goes from their "master module" (what we call the "CPU") to their "throttle interface" gets cut, that you would still have "full normal operation" of the boat. That means that they may be powering their "throttle interfaces" from the 5V lines supplied to the APS. We have not seen their system yet, so this is our assumption about how they're achieving this. Note that we have not once had a customer report that the CPU to throttle node cable ever having got severed, or frankly have any issue at all.

The APS sensor is analog. Typically in analog systems, the power and ground provided have been separated from the digital side because the digital side is quite electrically "noisy" and you want analog sensors to have clean power. By powering the throttle nodes from the APS sensor's power, you make assumptions about the load it can handle (potentially causing long term thermal / reliability issues with the engine computer's 5V regulator), and also risk dumping digital noise and voltage drop from your system onto that clean sensor power, which may affect the APS signal or other sensor's signals.

They list this as a "feature", presumably because they had no other choice. They have no "standby" power as Ridesteady does, which keeps the system active beyond when the engines are turned off. So, they had to power their "throttle interfaces" externally, as their Master Module would be dead at engine key off, but the engine computers would still be active. This would result in a check engine light / limp mode without external power to their "throttle interfaces".

So really the only "advantage" they have is if the "master module" to "throttle interface" cable were to be cut, then presumably their "throttle interfaces" would still be powered by the APS sensor's 5V lines. Hard to say what they would happen if it were cut in the middle of speed control operation. Again, we've never once had a report of this cable ever being damaged. If that cable were to be cut on the RS systems, the throttle nodes would lose power and the engine computers would immediately throw the check engine light / go into limp mode (a considerably safer option IMO than continuing on as if nothing ever happened). If you had to, you could reconnect the engine wiring harness to the APS sensor to bypass Ridesteady, but I imagine if that cable got cut you would have bigger problems on your hand.

One last point about this. Give some thought about how a system should be wired. When you connect a stereo amplifier, does all the power come through the ignition switch? Or is it powered from the battery (i.e. "constant 12V"), with the ignition switch being simply a signal to power on the amplifier? The Perfectpass system draws all its power (for the master module / display / GPS, anyway) through the key switched 12V power. I believe this is what got them into trouble on their mechanical-throttle Yamaha version. It was drawing so much power through the key / ignition switch that it caused issues with "no wake mode", etc. It's just not the right way to do it, in this competitor's opinion.

This goes to the feeling of an "easier install" being suspect in my mind. Not only is R-S easy to install in my opinion anyway, but there is good reason for every one of the cable runs and connections. I would be very suspicious of short cutting and/or eliminating any one of those cable runs and connections that R-S makes in an effort to make the install "easier".

 

[Ancient canoe]

One of the many misleading "features" I noticed right off the bat. From their claim, you could cut any cable on the Perfectpass system and you would still have "full normal operation of boat". So, you could cut the cable between their "throttle interface" and the APS, or their "throttle interface" and the factory wiring harness and still have "full normal operation of boat" (even though now nothing is even connected to the APS or the engine computer)? I'm afraid not.

What they're probably referring to is that if the cable that goes from their "master module" (what we call the "CPU") to their "throttle interface" gets cut, that you would still have "full normal operation" of the boat. That means that they may be powering their "throttle interfaces" from the 5V lines supplied to the APS. We have not seen their system yet, so this is our assumption about how they're achieving this. Note that we have not once had a customer report that the CPU to throttle node cable ever having got severed, or frankly have any issue at all.

The APS sensor is analog. Typically in analog systems, the power and ground provided have been separated from the digital side because the digital side is quite electrically "noisy" and you want analog sensors to have clean power. By powering the throttle nodes from the APS sensor's power, you make assumptions about the load it can handle (potentially causing long term thermal / reliability issues with the engine computer's 5V regulator), and also risk dumping digital noise and voltage drop from your system onto that clean sensor power, which may affect the APS signal or other sensor's signals.

They list this as a "feature", presumably because they had no other choice. They have no "standby" power as Ridesteady does, which keeps the system active beyond when the engines are turned off. So, they had to power their "throttle interfaces" externally, as their Master Module would be dead at engine key off, but the engine computers would still be active. This would result in a check engine light / limp mode without external power to their "throttle interfaces".

So really the only "advantage" they have is if the "master module" to "throttle interface" cable were to be cut, then presumably their "throttle interfaces" would still be powered by the APS sensor's 5V lines. Hard to say what they would happen if it were cut in the middle of speed control operation. Again, we've never once had a report of this cable ever being damaged. If that cable were to be cut on the RS systems, the throttle nodes would lose power and the engine computers would immediately throw the check engine light / go into limp mode (a considerably safer option IMO than continuing on as if nothing ever happened). If you had to, you could reconnect the engine wiring harness to the APS sensor to bypass Ridesteady, but I imagine if that cable got cut you would have bigger problems on your hand.

One last point about this. Give some thought about how a system should be wired. When you connect a stereo amplifier, does all the power come through the ignition switch? Or is it powered from the battery (i.e. "constant 12V"), with the ignition switch being simply a signal to power on the amplifier? The Perfectpass system draws all its power (for the master module / display / GPS, anyway) through the key switched 12V power. I believe this is what got them into trouble on their mechanical-throttle Yamaha version. It was drawing so much power through the key / ignition switch that it caused issues with "no wake mode", etc. It's just not the right way to do it, in this competitor's opinion.