Reliability of new voting machines questioned-Associated Press

[BigN8]

You mean the updated results on the screen where the republican candidate has less votes than he had since the prior update? (so he "lost" votes in the update?) I know that happens when a county is suspect on their quick math and they take it out while they figure out what the heck happened. Happened in Michigan to Biden I'm sure, while they figured out why the quick counts were wrong in Antrim. One of many plausible explanations for a change of this type.

Again, a suspicious artifact out of context, but when fully examined it is very likely to amount to nothing. Not saying it's nothing, but I am saying calling this "proof" of any fraud is an even bigger leap.

If you start with the premise.."These elections in the past have used the SAME methods and nobody before has found concerning Fraud...and we are seeing these odd things...let's review them to make sure the numbers are right" You may get more play time. If you start with "These are some thieving MFs who want to steal the votes" Those not drinking the kool-aid point out that's too big a leap and you have not proof (yet?) to make those statements. Find your evidence and it enables you to make those claims. But until then, all you have is suspicion, and not something that is very convincing, so for the non-believers your message seems alarmist and does not resonate.

There are even fewer safeguards in Texas and we don't see Biden nitpicking any discrepancies there. I'm sure they will also investigate if they see anything suspicious, but there is not prior scream of fraud before the convincing proof is published. That's the right order, investigate first and accuse second.

I feel like you really didn't watch the video. It wasn't just a decrease in votes on the Rep side, it literally switched the exact number of votes from Republican to Democrat. Exactly the same number!!! How is that possible, unless some kind of virus or algorithm made it happen??

 

[Beachbummer]

Or someone fat fingered the wrong totals? Don't attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity. Virus, Bad Algorithm, Human made a mistake and corrected it later, many other explanations? We don't know. Let's find out once the results are certified, If there are any indications of anomalies then. That's what court is for. Proof will be needed.

(I did see the video)

 

[Enduro900]

No sir, it is not beneath me. @Enduro900 is a punk.

To start a thread like this, pretending it's not political in nature, precisely at the time when everyone with a brain is pretty fucking triggered, not to mention this site is meant for recreation not to get further pissed off, is akin to taking a dump in someone's front yard - if you ask me.


But hey, it's your front yard. I';m just about done here.

--

I bet you lean to the “tolerable” side right?

I actually had some respect for you, before all the personal attacks......

What is “Off-topic (Not boating related), General Discussion” on a boater forum mean to you????

Is the AP some far-right rag???

Do you want to back-up your accusations based on my past voting record???

If you think this is all about political party and sore “losership” do some research non-boat related someday:

Tulsi Gabbard (if you don’t know, she is in the “D” party) is trying to pass a bill to ban ballot harvesting.....I wonder why that is???

Would she be doing that if it only helps her party??? Maybe a true patriot would. Regardless, she sees the practice as putting weight on the scales of an election......don’t you think any “weight” should be us?????? Congresswoman Gabbard does......how do i know??? I have an open mind and listen to both sides....

Btw, if you think there is no fraud (isnt that what we keep being told????) find the press conference from the state elections office in GA. He said yes, they know there will be illegal votes and double votes. He also does not expect enough to change the outcome.....so simmer down and lets find out what’s going on, how widespread it is, and demand that something is done about it......if i say only for the next election are you ok with the topic now????

 

[tabbibus]

I'm confused. The corona thread was closed, which was a far more useful than this thread. This thread? Garbage.

 

[BigN8]

I'm confused. The corona thread was closed, which was a far more useful than this thread. This thread? Garbage.

I disagree. It's an issue worth discussing openly. If you think it's garbage then don't read it.

 

[Enduro900]

Or someone fat fingered the wrong totals? Don't attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity. Virus, Bad Algorithm, Human made a mistake and corrected it later, many other explanations? We don't know. Let's find out once the results are certified, If there are any indications of anomalies then. That's what court is for. Proof will be needed.

(I did see the video)

I don’t understand how you think every state has the same procedures.....they do not. Contrary to some people, we are not a democracy, we are a democratic republic. Which means in essence states have sovereignty to run independently except for that which falls under the federal government. Elections up to now are not governed by the federal government. So there are no nationwide standards. So even voter laws very from state to state.

Unless there is an audit (not a recount) there is little involved in the “unofficial” to “official” counts.

Again, i gave you an AP article where computer scientist warned this would happen.......do you think millionaires are ok with their bank accounts being updated with errors by someone “fat fingering” wrong totals, a virus, bad algorithm, human made mistake??? Or someone with $10k, and they see $3k disappear?? Heck, this confirmed instance was 30% of the vote.

We are talking about a computer system that needs to count votes accurately and report them accurately......you gave 5 excuses of why we shouldn’t expect it to work right??? And this is really ok with you?

Have you used a touch screen ordering system at a restaurant?? If 30% of the orders were wrong, you would just sum it up to one of your 5 reasons listed???? No, you would stop going there until they got a new system and convinced you it now works right......

 

[Julian]

This article does a good job of summarizing some of the mistakes made in Michigan (not fraud-mostly human error) that were corrected as part of the process:

Why these Michigan election conspiracy theories don't add up

amp-detroitnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[swatski]

I bet you lean to the “tolerable” side right?

I actually had some respect for you, before all the personal attacks......

What is “Off-topic (Not boating related), General Discussion” on a boater forum mean to you????

Is the AP some far-right rag???

Do you want to back-up your accusations based on my past voting record???

If you think this is all about political party and sore “losership” do some research non-boat related someday:

Tulsi Gabbard (if you don’t know, she is in the “D” party) is trying to pass a bill to ban ballot harvesting.....I wonder why that is???

Would she be doing that if it only helps her party??? Maybe a true patriot would. Regardless, she sees the practice as putting weight on the scales of an election......don’t you think any “weight” should be us?????? Congresswoman Gabbard does......how do i know??? I have an open mind and listen to both sides....

Btw, if you think there is no fraud (isnt that what we keep being told????) find the press conference from the state elections office in GA. He said yes, they know there will be illegal votes and double votes. He also does not expect enough to change the outcome.....so simmer down and lets find out what’s going on, how widespread it is, and demand that something is done about it......if i say only for the next election are you ok with the topic now????

Ignored. Bye bye Enduro.

--

 

[swatski]

I disagree. It's an issue worth discussing openly. If you think it's garbage then don't read it.

I never imagined I would have to ignore/block you. Dude - you had been so helpful, and most of your posts really worthwhile, but this is bs.
There was a vote on politics, or not, here which seemed to have generated a very clear outcome.
Should we question that too? Just kidding.

Bye bye big Nate.

--

 

[swatski]

I care about how the votes are counted, we all do.

But this collective has agreed to keep politics and religion out. Is this up for discussion again, @Administrative?

--

 

[Enduro900]

This article does a good job of summarizing some of the mistakes made in Michigan (not fraud-mostly human error) that were corrected as part of the process:

Why these Michigan election conspiracy theories don't add up

amp-detroitnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org

I respect you comment, but can you elaborate of the evidence you found that this was not fraud, mostly human error? We are talking about a touchscreen voting system, that printed out the correct chosen names, but flipped the barcodes on 30% of them.

Sorry but this one-line quote from someone in the article that was not there, never administered the system, holds zero weight to me:

“Posthumus Lyons, a Republican, expressed confidence in the system that is also used in Kent County. She argued the Michigan Republican Party used the same system for its nomination process.”

Is this what you were referring to or did you see something else? I really wish the writer of this story took the time to get a first-hand account. Were they that lazy or are the people involved not willing to make comments? If that was indeed the fact, the writer would have stated they tried but couldnt get a statement.

And what complicates this more, is why only 30%? If it was 100% it would have been easier to accept.....

We use computers every day, in everything.

I used the touch-screen enology for restaurant ordering a minute ago, so I’ll use it again.....would you keep going back if 30% of your orders are wrong? 1 out of 5? 1 out of 10?

Again, 100% flip i can understand someone inputted wrong. 30%?? Audit every single precinct and county that used this system or something like it.

 

[BigN8]

I never imagined I would have to ignore/block you. Dude - you had been so helpful, and most of your posts really worthwhile, but this is bs.
There was a vote on politics, or not, here which seemed to have generated a very clear outcome.
Should we question that too? Just kidding.

Bye bye big Nate.

--

Wow, not that I really care I'm blocked, but dude......you have been MIA for months then come back all scorched Earth. I'm just trying to add to this discussion. I don't trust this system at all. If you watched "Zero Days" which talks about the Stuxnet virus and how it was used to manually disable an operating piece of machinery in a facility that had an air barrier, then it just solidifies that tampering with voter software systems would be child's play for these egg heads.

 

[Beachbummer]

I don’t understand how you think every state has the same procedures.....they do not. Contrary to some people, we are not a democracy, we are a democratic republic. Which means in essence states have sovereignty to run independently except for that which falls under the federal government. Elections up to now are not governed by the federal government. So there are no nationwide standards. So even voter laws very from state to state.

Not sure what part of my statement you are responding to. I have specifically alluded to differences among the states. Not sure where the disagreement is here.

Unless there is an audit (not a recount) there is little involved in the “unofficial” to “official” counts.

I disagree. There is a reason it takes days to certify the elections. Many things happen in this time window to further ensure the results are acceptable to all, and with the same process, they have been in the past

Again, i gave you an AP article where computer scientist warned this would happen.......do you think millionaires are ok with their bank accounts being updated with errors by someone “fat fingering” wrong totals, a virus, bad algorithm, human made mistake??? Or someone with $10k, and they see $3k disappear?? Heck, this confirmed instance was 30% of the vote.

We are talking about a computer system that needs to count votes accurately and report them accurately......you gave 5 excuses of why we shouldn’t expect it to work right??? And this is really ok with you?

Process is per county, run only once every 2 years, and it's quite data intensive. Bush/Gore took some time to sort out. Within margin of error for me. I am OK with what I am seeing so far. Honest. I know there are republican observers anywhere it might be needed and if they had actual proof of any fraud I'm sure they would share it openly in a way that was believable. I have not seen this yet.

Have you used a touch screen ordering system at a restaurant?? If 30% of the orders were wrong, you would just sum it up to one of your 5 reasons listed???? No, you would stop going there until they got a new system and convinced you it now works right......

The food has not yet been delivered. Where's the proof the food is wrong? Maybe you are not happy with your family style order because your table mates ordered stuff you didn't like. Doesn't mean the ordering system is broke. I understand how you feel, but I humbly ask you realize your arguments are no convincing enough to sway most others yet. Instead of trying the same arguments, getting more proof might convince me.

 

[BigN8]

Al Gore did the same thing Trump is doing back in 2000. That election wasn't decided for 45 days. Dems screamed voter fraud back then, and the process played out. All I'm saying is the same thing needs to happen now.

 

[mike220022]

I care about how the votes are counted, we all do.

But this collective has agreed to keep politics and religion out. Is this up for discussion again, @Administrative?

--

Apparently so....or at least only on threads that moderators participate in as well such as this one

 

[Enduro900]

Not sure what part of my statement you are responding to. I have specifically alluded to differences among the states. Not sure where the disagreement is here.


I disagree. There is a reason it takes days to certify the elections. Many things happen in this time window to further ensure the results are acceptable to all, and with the same process, they have been in the past



Process is per county, run only once every 2 years, and it's quite data intensive. Bush/Gore took some time to sort out. Within margin of error for me. I am OK with what I am seeing so far. Honest. I know there are republican observers anywhere it might be needed and if they had actual proof of any fraud I'm sure they would share it openly in a way that was believable. I have not seen this yet.


The food has not yet been delivered. Where's the proof the food is wrong? Maybe you are not happy with your family style order because your table mates ordered stuff you didn't like. Doesn't mean the ordering system is broke. I understand how you feel, but I humbly ask you realize your arguments are no convincing enough to sway most others yet. Instead of trying the same arguments, getting more proof might convince me.

So I just want to clarify respectfully, are you saying there is no proof, or are you saying there is not enough proof to warrant more investigations?

Regarding the touch-screen situation, I have first-hand knowledge from people that were involved. I spend time up in that part of my state. What they had to do to solve the mystery was more involved than you think, and no article I have read online goes into all the steps, fully explaining it. Maybe there is one out there, but I have not found it.

And again, we are all making assumptions that there are standards for everything in each state process. There just is not.

 

[Beachbummer]

I'm saying I have not been presented any proof of fraud beyond normal stuff/mistakes that happen every year (or two depending on county/state) that do NOT amount to fraud. (which, to me, means actions intentionally designed to change the results)

I'm for ALL suspicions of fraud to be investigated. I'm happy with anyone stating they see SUSPECTED fraud, and share why they think so, or they THINK fraud has happened, let's investigate.

But to make the statement that fraud has occurred with the current proof, and current access all parties have been given to the process, I just don't see it.

 

[BigN8]

Al Gore did the same thing Trump is doing back in 2000. That election wasn't decided for 45 days. Dems screamed voter fraud back then, and the process played out. All I'm saying is the same thing needs to happen now.

I forgot to add, Gore even conceded the race then called up a short time later to retract his concession, then took it to the Supreme Court. Can you imagine what social media would do if that happened today??? OMG it would be bedlam. Or if Trump conceded then retracted his concession???

 

[Enduro900]

I care about how the votes are counted, we all do.

But this collective has agreed to keep politics and religion out. Is this up for discussion again, @Administrative?

--

Wow, so you block others because they chose to discuss this topic that for some reason you dispise, and you see that as ok?

And when is a discussion about machines that both parties may have used to vote politics???

So much for the 1st amendment and freedom to choose in your house.

Here is the irony.....the whole country did not vote using these machines. So I never said anything about it changing the election.

This discussion is about machines, there is significant concern whether this process should be trusted going forward, and we (except you) are having a respectful discussion about this.

I bet you are one of those people that LOVE instant replay when it helps your team, but HATE IT when it doesn't.......Am I right????

 

[Enduro900]

I'm saying I have not been presented any proof of fraud beyond normal stuff/mistakes that happen every year (or two depending on county/state) that do NOT amount to fraud. (which, to me, means actions intentionally designed to change the results)

I'm for ALL suspicions of fraud to be investigated. I'm happy with anyone stating they see SUSPECTED fraud, and share why they think so, or they THINK fraud has happened, let's investigate.

But to make the statement that fraud has occurred with the current proof, and current access all parties have been given to the process, I just don't see it.

Agreed. Probably “attempted fraud” would be more accurate statement since in michigan they did find the issue and correct it, then transmitted their correct numbers

But add the information I have first hand of how hard it was to detect, and packaged that with it affected 30%, and not 100% makes it look really bad.........kind of like O.J. Bad...... )

Can we all at least agree that if it was in fact human error, that person should be fired???.......I think maybe all this talk of re-educating people to code may not be the best way forward for our country after all