The Vaccine

[crazy4life]

Still not quite the same analogy - it would be the same if there was a shot that the 400lb smoker who just had a heart attack COULD have taken but chose not to.

Are you serious with this statement, You dont need a vaccine for this condition. You just have to shut your piehole and throw the ciggy butts away. Throw some exercise in there while your at it.

Every year, about 647,000 Americans die from heart disease, making it the leading cause of death in the United States. Heart disease causes 1 out of every 4 deaths .

Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure.

That's 1.1 million deaths a year EVERY YEAR. Where is the moral outrage. What about the 41,000 people that die every year from secondhand smoke.

The logic in this thread defies the imagination sometimes.

 

[crazy4life]

@crazy4life , I don’t understand your responses or questions and don’t have time or motivation to debate you. Now I’m wondering if you are in the position of not being vaccinated and therefore are at higher risk or contracting Covid and / or getting sicker than those who have been vaccinated.

If your true to your screen name I highly recommend that you get vaccinated if you have not been already.

But you are debating me correct.

 

[Julian]

Are you serious with this statement, You dont need a vaccine for this condition. You just have to shut your piehole and throw the ciggy butts away. Throw some exercise in there while your at it.

Every year, about 647,000 Americans die from heart disease, making it the leading cause of death in the United States. Heart disease causes 1 out of every 4 deaths .

Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure.

That's 1.1 million deaths a year EVERY YEAR. Where is the moral outrage. What about the 41,000 people that die every year from secondhand smoke.

The logic in this thread defies the imagination sometimes.

I'm simply questioning the analogy you are questioning. OF COURSE this person's behavior caused their condition. But I think what Ronnie is saying is we have people who are in hospital because they CHOSE not to take the shot that would have prevented them from being in hospital. So all I'm saying is....for your analogy to be the SAME - it would have to include a means the the fat smoker to have avoided the heart attack via a preventative treatment that was available - that he chose NOT to take. Saying don't eat/smoke - would be like saying to the covid patient - don't go out. Different analogy.

 

[swatski]

And for the shaming part, for fucks sake look at all of the anti-vax shaming that has gone on in this thread - lots of it by your boy.

I took a break from this thread, thinking "don't argue with idiots, it just brings you down to their level where they beat you with experience".

But, I see that staying silent maybe worse.

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Personal account with vaccination experience?

I run a health care lab where we must report to work, the work can not be done remotely. I recently had four people in my division fall sick with covid in quick succession, the four worked in immediate proximity of each other; it happened few weeks ago, all four are still out on leave, some may or may not come back.

The situation frustrated the division, screwed up the workflow, and necessitated urgent implementation of complex work-around SOPs with far reaching consequences for turn-around times and patient care.

The first one of the four became sick very suddenly, from day to day, with almost no warning; she was not vaccinated; she is pregnant and now suffers w/severe covid-related pregnancy complications and a high likelihood of loosing her pregnancy. To say it is devastating would be an understatement.
She regrets not being vaccinated bitterly.
Her getting sick was followed within few days by the other three coming down in short order.

To my astonishment, as I know them well and consider them highly trained clinical laboratorians, all four involved were unvaccinated.

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Even before full FDA approval, speculation by some that the vaccines (administered in the US) are unsafe because they have not gone through a traditional clinical trial and approval process has been naïve at best.

A typical phase 3 clinical trial involves approximately 1,000 patients, and drugs get approved with a list of potential side effects listed at the end of commercials. As of late last week, 170 million Americans and 1,900 million people around the world are vaccinated.

The covid vaccines are by far the most effective way to protect people from the virus and its variants. An unvaccinated person is about 50 times more likely to be hospitalized than a vaccinated person, and nearly 300 times more likely to die if infected.

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Let's not confuse vaccine shaming with taking personal responsibility. At this point in time, anyone who's medically eligible but chooses not to be vaccinated is not part of the solution.

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[Jim_in_Delaware]

Are you serious with this statement, You dont need a vaccine for this condition. You just have to shut your piehole and throw the ciggy butts away. Throw some exercise in there while your at it.

Every year, about 647,000 Americans die from heart disease, making it the leading cause of death in the United States. Heart disease causes 1 out of every 4 deaths .

Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure.

That's 1.1 million deaths a year EVERY YEAR. Where is the moral outrage. What about the 41,000 people that die every year from secondhand smoke.

The logic in this thread defies the imagination sometimes.

I am NOT weighing into the 400 lb smoker debate.

However, let's be clear, not all heart disease is due to poor life choices. Cardiomyopathy, for example, occurs when the normal muscle in the heart can thicken, stiffen, thin out, or fill with substances the body produces that do not belong in the heart muscle. As a result, the heart muscle’s ability to pump blood is reduced, which can lead to irregular heartbeats, the backup of blood into the lungs or rest of the body, and heart failure. Cardiomyopathy can be acquired—developed because of another disease, condition, or factor—or inherited.

Jim

 

[Yambers]

I am going to try and avoid all the stuff happening here, and just talk about what the OP originally started with, which is my experience.

I work in Healthcare and I am required to be vaccinated. Yes I could choose not to get it, but I would also be choosing a new line of work. I did it in February of 2021 and I did not experience any known side effects other than a sore arm and a sever bulging disc, which the disc is highly unlikely to be tied to the vaccine since I have had chronic back issues since a motorcycle wreck when I was 18. 29 years ago. I have been a hermit when not at work for 1.5 years now and I have been lucky enough not to get Covid.

My wife has an autoimmune disease that she has had for 15 years now and they have been unable to completely diagnose it. At the advice of her physician, she is not currently vaccinated, nor is she likely to be. I support that decision, but I am also extremely fearful for her since she works in a school. We take every precaution we can with her health, sanitizing, etc.

My mother got vaccinated about 3 months ago, and shortly after (6/30/21) she passed. She was 76 and in general in good health. She still lived alone, belonged to a gun club, and enjoyed a margarita (or 5) a week. She did not have covid when she passed, and she had not had it previously, but it is possible that her passing was linked to the vaccination. Maybe it was, or maybe it was a coincidence. I don't know.

My point to all of this is that everyone is different. Just like a non-smoker that develops lung cancer and has never been around a smoker. There isnt a single solution. What works for me wont work for someone else. All we can do is make the best decision we can for ourselves based on the information we currently have and hope we make it. None of us will last forever. Stop bickering and just do you. If we find that we have made the wrong decision for ourselves, it is us who will pay.

Now lets get back to boat pics, funny memes, and wife pics. You know, the important stuff in life. lol

 

[Julian]

My mother got vaccinated about 3 months ago, and shortly after (6/30/21) she passed. She was 76 and in general in good health. She still lived alone, belonged to a gun club, and enjoyed a margarita (or 5) a week. She did not have covid when she passed, and she had not had it previously, but it is possible that her passing was linked to the vaccination. Maybe it was, or maybe it was a coincidence. I don't know.

Thanks for sharing....out of curiosity, did they not do an autopsy, or were they unable to find a cause of death?

 

[Yambers]

Thanks for sharing....out of curiosity, did they not do an autopsy, or were they unable to find a cause of death?

Official cause of death was kidney failure, which she did not have any previously known kidney issues. She did have a-fib, which didnt help since she was unable to receive dialysis. It was a series of unfortunate events. She was eating dinner with friends one night, and gone the next morning. It all happened very fast. We did not do an autopsy. She wouldn't have wanted that. Might have shed some light on things, but the outcome is still the same regardless.

I dont know if her death was linked to the vaccine or not. I was hoping to show in my post that out of 3 people in my family, we have had 3 very different results. There isnt a single answer. Heated debates gets us nowhere. Get vaccinated, or dont. It is your choice. But the outcomes have to be lived with forever. Do what you think is right. Nobody can ever say you are "wrong" if you believe in your heart that you are doing all you can to protect your family. I want my wife vaccinated, but it might do more harm than good, so i love and support her for not doing it.

 

[Ronnie]

So I e been out of my office for a few weeks and just catching up on what’s going on vaccination wise. I work for a large healthcare organization and here is what their current position is on vaccinations for employees:

1. by w date provide proof of full vaccination.
2. by x date get fully vaccinated or obtain a waiver religious or pre existing conditions.
3. by y date if you are not fully vaccinated and/or do not have a waiver you will be put unpaid leave for up to 60 days.
4 by z date of you are not vaccinated and don’t have a waiver approved your employment will be terminated.

Note those that do have a waiver must be tested twice a week. Not sure how this works in the administrative organizations since we were recently told that our return to work date has been pushed out

summarily: you don’t have to get vaccinated but if you don’t and don’t get a waiver you won’t be working here for much longer.

 

[WiskyDan]

I took a break from this thread, thinking "don't argue with idiots, it just brings you down to their level where they beat you with experience".

But, I see that staying silent maybe worse.

--

To my astonishment, as I know them well and consider them highly trained clinical laboratorians, all four involved were unvaccinated.

So one of the prime offenders for this thread going off the rails has spoken. I knew you'd show up eventually so you could look down your nose at all of us "idiots".

So even some highly educated people have not decided to get vaccinated? What's your explanation for this? I thought only of those that were "stoopid" didn't get vaccinated? ?? Hmm.....astonishing.......

 

[Robconn]

Perhaps there is a better way to have this thread closed. For one that wanted to maintain its original integrity, I call BS. You waited for those to chime in and then go on the attack. Absolutely trash talk at this point.

 

[WiskyDan]

Perhaps there is a better way to have this thread closed. For one that wanted to maintain its original integrity, I call BS. You waited for those to chime in and then go on the attack. Absolutely trash talk at this point.

I was responding to being called an idiot - nothing more, nothing less.

The integrity of this thread was lost a long time ago. I suggested that the thread be closed or put back on track a couple of times - even the author said he would be OK with it being locked.

 

[Julian]

So one of the prime offenders for this thread going off the rails has spoken. I knew you'd show up eventually so you could look down your nose at all of us "idiots".

So even some highly educated people have not decided to get vaccinated? What's your explanation for this? I thought only of those that were "stoopid" didn't get vaccinated? ?? Hmm.....astonishing.......

Which is why he posted it. He could have simply swept it under the rug, but instead he's shining a light on it. As I often hear, the sickest of those people is now saying "I should have gotten vaccinated".....quite the theme there.

@WiskyDan you really are quite the aggressor today. Much like TV - if you don't like the content, change the channel. But slamming other members is uncalled for. And the "he called me a name first" thing doesn't work- you decided to infer that because you've argued with @swatski that you are an idiot. Please tone it down. @swatski please also avoid the generalized "idiot" statements - I know it isn't/wasn't a personal attack, but it does fuel the fires.

@Robconn and @tabbibus - I wonder if there are any uniform surveys of really sick covid patients on if they would change vaccine choice given the chance? I found this Rollingstone article on vaccine regret, but its not a survey - but rather a collection of statements from sick covid patients wishing they had gotten vaccinated. Perhaps start your own survey?

Here is an interesting study from Kentucky that says vaccines provide better protection than covid infection alone.

 

[tabbibus]

Which is why he posted it. He could have simply swept it under the rug, but instead he's shining a light on it. As I often hear, the sickest of those people is now saying "I should have gotten vaccinated".....quite the theme there.

@WiskyDan you really are quite the aggressor today. Much like TV - if you don't like the content, change the channel. But slamming other members is uncalled for. And the "he called me a name first" thing doesn't work- you decided to infer that because you've argued with @swatski that you are an idiot. Please tone it down. @swatski please also avoid the generalized "idiot" statements - I know it isn't/wasn't a personal attack, but it does fuel the fires.

@Robconn and @tabbibus - I wonder if there are any uniform surveys of really sick covid patients on if they would change vaccine choice given the chance? I found this Rollingstone article on vaccine regret, but its not a survey - but rather a collection of statements from sick covid patients wishing they had gotten vaccinated. Perhaps start your own survey?

Here is an interesting study from Kentucky that says vaccines provide better protection than covid infection alone.

There's a bit of everything. Some regret not getting it. But we've been yelled at and treated poorly by patients and family members for bringing up the subject. So I doubt I would enjoy doing this survey. Lol.

 

[Julian]

There's a bit of everything. Some regret not getting it. But we've been yelled at and treated poorly by patients and family members for bringing up the subject. So I doubt I would enjoy doing this survey. Lol.

Yeah...asking them about their situation sure would be touchy. I was thinking some thing more along the lines of (buried amongst other questions): "If you were to give advice to someone struggling with the decision of getting vaccinated - would you advise them for/or against?"

 

[Ronnie]

But you are debating me correct.

No, you are incorrect. You are trying and have failed to start a debate with me. I simply stated that I would be pissed if I was prioritized below someone who intentionally passed on getting vaccinated and I stated why. Whether you or anyone gets vaccinated or not is not my business unless or until that choice impacts me directly.

The numbers don’t lie, as I understand it, right now, Covid 19 is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. There are some break through cases but they make up the small portion of the total not the majority.

 

[Acard7]

If anyone wants to know, we’ve had really good luck administering the J&J to many in our rural area, many without side effects or immune response symptoms. I do let them know it’s not as effective with protection against COVID but most like having one and done.

Sad ordeal one county over to the East though, had two family members pass due to covid within the same week, both vaccinated. Unknown which vaccine they got but a friend was close with the family and attended both funerals even though I advised it probably wasn’t a good idea since those family members were probably positive for covid as well.

Also just got confirmation of a nursing home to my West with 10 positives and the EMS and hospital would be sending a team to start IVs and antibody therapy. Still waiting to hear if those 10 are vaccinated. If they are I hope the vaccine will protect them, if not the confidence in the vaccine will degrade rapidly. Whether they are or not, we will be seeing nursing homes close again sooner than later is my guess! Iowa and Missouri state fairs just concluded so I bet we will be seeing a wave for sure.

Also, might as well keep adding to the several topics I have here lol. Had a couple friends test positive recently. His fiancée attended a bachelorette party in Lake of the Ozarks. Three days after she got back they got their vaccines. A day later she started having symptoms and continued for a few days and then he did as well, so they got tested and sure enough were positive, they are okay though. We recently got back from the Ozarks with friends, adult trip without kids so that was nice, risky but nice. 5/8 of us are not vaccinated. 3/8 had covid already. My wife and I are vaccinated. So I’m waiting for who will get covid in the next couple days!

 

[swatski]

@swatski please also avoid the generalized "idiot" statements

Will do.

I'll use a broader term "The Ones Who Push Animal Dewormer Ivermectin As COVID Treatment Because Virus Is a Parasite", instead.

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[swatski]

Had a couple friends test positive recently.

At this point in time, other than PCR test in the setting of covid symptoms present, the rationale for testing, especially with antibody tests, is not obvious or definite.

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[Acard7]

At this point in time, other than PCR test in the setting of covid symptoms present, the rationale for testing, especially with antibody tests, is not obvious or definite.

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Ya they had the PCR tests, both had symptoms, both lost taste and smell, both had headaches, and both very tired. His fiancé had GI symptoms as well but he didn’t. Crazy the amount of symptoms anyone can have with this!