Things that make you go humm BRP Rotax 250-hp engine

[Evil Sports]

How is it BRP can get 250 HP out of a 1.5 supercharged engine, a smaller size than our 1.8s and 70 more hp

 

[Britboater]

The yam 1.8 with a supercharger I believe is 240hp, plus the Rotax is known to be on the limit and unreliable.

 

[Bruce]

The Rotax requires more maintenance and is less reliable.

 

[Speedling]

Yamaha is very concerned with reliability so they will have a more conservative tune and cam as well as less psi. No doubt 300 hp could be cranked out of the svho.
The real question is can i get rid of the clutch system on their superchargers and put a couple on my f150 with a 5.4?

 

[Bruce]

@ScarabMike, I am not criticizing the BRP engines. But there is a tradeoff in reliability, maintenance and fuel economy for higher output. Yamaha tends to be more conservative while BRP pushes for higher output. Personally I would not want to add supercharger maintenance every few years to my boat. But there are plenty of buyers who want the extra horsepower.

 

[Speedling]

And closed loop cooling for salt water.
And the better reverse gate. Yamaha one is just different but it can be hard to back up

 

[Glassman]

I wouldn't rely too much on the numbers....

I just read a review of the Chaparral 203 Vortex VRX with the Rotax 1.5 250 hp supercharged engine.
http://www.boattest.com/boats/boat_video.aspx?ID=3167

The specs were as follows: 44 mph Top Speed. 25.6 mph best Crusie Speed at 3.65 mpg and a 115 mile range





The review of the Yamaha SX192 equipped with the Yamaha 1.8 supercharged engine rated at 210 hp has a 50 mph Top Speed @7700 rpm, Best Cruise at 32 mph @3 mpg according to Boats.com -http://features.boats.com/boat-content/2013/06/yamaha-ar192-and-sx192-jet-boats-sporty-and-supercharged/
Boattest.com is all over the map with their numbers - too many typos to count, suffice to say the only thing they agreed on was the Top Speed is over 50 mph.
http://www.boattest.com/boats/boat_video.aspx?ID=2771

So the real question is; how does BRP / Rotax make a similar sized boat go slower with a purportedly more powerful engine?



Here's a nice video about the 1.8 supercharged engine:

http://www.boattest.com/engine-review/Yamaha/7500030_1-8L-Super-High-Output_2013


Oh, and one last point...of a personal nature - I wouldn't touch a jet boat configured as these are that does not have a clean-out port for the jet pump. Nope. No Way Ever, not with your....

 

[Evil Sports]

Well when I look at the Rotax engine I get skerd

 

[OCMD]

X2 Glassman, that kind of says it all. I'm not trading Yamaha's combination of superior reliability and power, coupled with price, for anything.

 

[B_Mutter]

And closed loop cooling for salt water.
And the better reverse gate. Yamaha one is just different but it can be hard to back up

@Speedling are you saying that the BRP has a better reverse?? I would say the complete opposite. Dropping a gate in front of a nozzle to let the water just bubble there is not the ideal reverse IMO. Yamaha's gate directs the water underneath the boat for a much better reverse.

The closed cooling is a must because of the supercharged/intercooled system. They take a 150hp motor and blow it out to 250. Yammie takes the 180 and only makes it 210. The new SVHO is about 240-250 but that's done with not just the supercharge but the pump design as well. Yamaha is all about reliability and less maintenance. The Yamaha supercharger has ZERO maintenance unlike the BRP.

The other builders have no choice than to use BRP as Yamaha will not sell their motors to other companies. The chap boat is probably the best looking boat of the 3 BRP boats but I'm still not changing lines! LOL!!

 

[Bruce]

@ScarabMike, Most of us own Yamahas and many of us considered BRP engined boats as an alternative so that is the basis for our responses. Some of us are biased toward one manufacturer. Currently most of our members are Yamaha owners. Hopefully as the new BRP engined manufacturers sell more boats we will have more diversity amongst our membership. Online forums will always have criticism and praise of products. If you look through the 2015 Yamaha Jet Boat Pictures thread you will see plenty of criticism of Yamaha products. I really do not believe these guys are trying to pick on Scarab or other BRP engined boats.

 

[Ronnie]

I can't speak to the boats but I tried to race a new seadoo gtx 255hp Pwc with my 160 hp fx cruiser last year, I say try because I failed miserably. The guy gave me 100 yards at wot before he even left cruise speed, than he passed me like I was at anchor within another 100 yards seemed to put even more distance between us for about a minute after that. In a straight line sprint yamaha can't keep up with brp, they are not even in the same league IMHO. That said, I would never buy another seadoo, at least not one with a super charger, there are a lot more seadoos In For repair at my local shop than there are yamahas or any other brand of Pwc for that matter.

Yahmaha does detune the marine version of the mr1, as seen in the fact that the street bike version revs to 15k rpm unlike the marine version which is rev limited to 10,200 rpm. Also the difference can be in the pump/impeller and hull shape. Lastly, I recall reading that there is a distinction between hp measured at the pump v. At the crank so would be buyers need to be sure that they are comparing apples to apples where mfgs hp claims are concerned.

 

[ScarabMike]

Honestly Bruce, I've been around car forums for over 20 years now, and even in the "all brand" forums you get that biased opinion of the majority owners. I have no idea why I would think this forum would be any different. Ill just skip past threads like this one in the future so not to stir up drama. My apologies to the community....

 

[Evil Sports]

I have No love for Fanboyisum. I have to laugh at people who are willing to internet fight or justify their purchase when someone says something bad about their brand. Yes I have a Yamaha boat. NO its not the Best thing I have bought, That being said I dont feel the need to defend my purchase or opinion.

 

[BoaterGuy]

The fact is that all of the brp boats and the new 2015 yamaha a have not been out long enough to make any criticism. A lot of the brp twins arent even on the water yet.

The 19 yamaha and the 20.3 ft chap are two completely different boats. Not to mention each buyer has their needs that each boat may fulfill.

IMO this thread should be closed as the title seems to be a bash towards the other brand with no real substantial claims against it.

 

[Murf'n'surf]

How is it BRP can get 250 HP out of a 1.5 supercharged engine, a smaller size than our 1.8s and 70 more hp

From what I've read on greenhulk, Seadoo and other manufacturers come up with creative mathematics to arrive at a specific HP. It's all marketing!

The closed loop cooling is nice but don't be fooled. Raw water is still flowing through the ride plate and inter cooler . I had 3 2011 Sea-doos with less than 30 hours experience inter cooler failure due to saltwater. Apparently it was a design flaw in that during fresh water flushing, there was not enough flow through the cooler to flush it thoroughly. It was all repaired under warranty but who wants saltwater injected into their oil?

Anywho....I hope the newest BRP motors are more bulletproof proof. The Scarabs are a great looking boat and I hope they do well in the marketplace. More importantly, I hope they give their owners trouble free operation. I don't like to see any fellow boater have problems.

 

[Julian]

The OP asked how BRP is building more powerful engines than Yamaha at a smaller weight. Fair question, not sure anyone can answer accurately.

I agree....lets keep things to the facts and try to avoid bashing each other. Nothing wrong with saying BRP supercharged engines have plastic gears that had a failures...that is fact. Have they fixed it? Hopefully.

 

[Williamsone46]

The answer is easy Yamaha's 1.8L are only around 60% power output. Where BRP/Kawasaki are around 90% output. But whatever Yamaha is doing they're doing it right. As all the Yamaha owners on here will attest the engines are rock solid.

 

[Speedling]

Even if they haven't fixed it, the aftermarket for those things is unreal. You can easily get a 300 hp boat with one of those supercharged engines!
The thing is, they have been out a long time, and they have been upgrading/changing things the whole time. I am sure they have only gotten better with this new round of boats.

I'm actually more curious as to if they have done anything new to the pumps? I know Yamaha has the new 160mm pump for the svho, but I wonder if they have a 160+mm pump for the rotax engines? According to my research/rough math they would require a 160-165mm pump to really be effective, and if you are starting up grade, you need to go up to more like a 175-180mm pump.

FYI The ecoboost makes 250 hp from 2.0 liters which is 125 hp per liter
The Hyundai Turbo 2.0 in the Genesis is 270 hp which is 135 per liter
The BRP 1.5 250 hp is 166 hp per liter.
I will have to say, that an engine that has it's basic characteristics from almost a decade ago really shouldn't be out doing the newest latest engines with more displacement.
I would certainly thing that something is exaggerated there.

 

[KXCam22]

Keep in mind that you can make a small engine make lots of horsepower. BUT! The big but(not mine) is that it costs more, the reliability goes down and maintenance costs climb. Its a trade off and the marine boat engine makers know that. Cam.