This reeks of rasicm too me, am I over reacting/over thinking this?

[Dixie Highway]

Personally in a situation like this I would have a hard time calling someone a racist without knowing their intentions from the start. I'll preface by saying I am a "white" person, but I can recant several stories of being questioned at 17 for driving a borrowed vehicle, or going on a camping trip with my grandparents camper. I've been falsely accused of possessing something illegally simply because it didn't look like a young kid could possibly buy it. This is all in suburban Chicago, my guess is if it was more rural where crime was less prevalent I may not have faced those accusations. I guess if the boaters in this story DID have these feeling simply based on skin color, what a racist bunch of people boaters are. Being overtly questioned by 4 different groups simply based on skin color over the course of a few hours would indicate that very fact, no? Was this incident in the Bay area? By all accounts an outsider like me is to understand it to be a more liberal area, not exactly the backwoods of Mississippi. Again, I mean no disrespect and I fully realize that typed responses lack the inflection and tone of a spoken one. I mean no disrespect or vitriol in my response, it's simply meant to highlight the fact that without knowing what was in these people's hearts and minds, we can't label comments made to be racist or hurtful.

 

[Drag]

There are thousands and thousands of threads on this forum on boating and a few that aren't. No one made you read or reply to this one.

@AZMark you are absolutely correct.

 

[HangOutdoors]

For me it comes down to intention and context. I at times have a hard time determining what someone's intention was and I have both let things slide that I shouldn't have and have over reacted when I shouldn't have.

If it was foundated in racism, shame on them and that is unacceptable.

 

[mike220022]

Way too many factors to just simply call it racism but thats what everyone jumps to these days. Maybe the people were genuinely curious about the wave runners but wouldnt typically ask an adult about them because...I dont know...they would be called a racist for simply asking a question or 2. Maybe the people at the docks were regulars there and noticed a couple younger kids on nice skis and just thought they would ask a couple questions because theyve not seen them around there before and would have asked no matter what color their skin was. Maybe the people asking are those kind of people that just ask alot of questions and have no filter like those who whenever someone buys a new car or anything else says "man thats nice, what did that cost". Maybe the kids overexaggerated a bit about the intensity of questioning because being a dad myself to 3 kids I know that happens quite a bit. Maybe the kids were acting out around the docks and the people questioning them felt the need to ask those questions. And yes, maybe they were racist....but automatically jumping to racism is a huge problem right now. People are way too quick to label others as racist when something they do or say doesnt fit their agenda. Also, saying this makes 2020 look more like 1960....umm yea this country has been put back SEVERAL years in the battle against racism thanks to 8 years of previous administration's divisive leadership. Maybe thats hard to see in California through the fires, smoke, and thick bullshit coming from celebrities and corrupt politicians.....Just my 2 cents not that it matters

 

[Beachbummer]

I have to say it felt like a weak advice that could be paraphrased as, “it is what it is, just keep taking the hits because you can’t do shit about it anyway”. I don’t see myself as being a good father on this topic.

I hope you didn't get that impression from me. I'm saying if you have the right value and strength you can engage them, knowing where they come from, to change their view. Be the opposite of the example they expect to prove they are wrong.

I find if you allow them to speak and explain themselves, after a few clarifying questions they may even backtrack themselves and realize , or reveal themselves as they truly are. Then you can feel confident you have done all you could.

The alternative, being a verbal or violent altercation, does not ring as a potential solution to me in that situation. Happy to hear opposing thoughts.

 

[grywlfbg]

Hmm. We simply cannot know the motivation behind the questions. So it is impossible for anyone to say that it was "slapping them in the face". I can come up w/ a lot of reasons for the questioning to be based solely on age.

You live in the Bay Area, which is an extremely liberal place. But it's also a place where people call the cops if a couple of 12 year olds walk 3 blocks to their neighborhood playground. The Bay Area is the capital of overprotective parenting (I spent 16 years there, the last 5 of which with kids). You said this was on a Friday. Maybe the people thought they should have been at school (or at home doing their school work)? Regardless, I am confident that many Bay Area folks would view you as a bad parent for letting "teenagers" have so much freedom.

People are so quick to shout racism these days. The US has become so much better over the last 50 years. Maybe it's like violent crime. The data shows that it is safer than ever to live in the US but because you hear about every kidnapping no matter how many thousand miles away it happened, it feels like it happens all the time.

 

[Julian]

@Ronnie . You don’t appreciate my feedback. You or I don’t know what was in the minds of those boaters. You don’t know what their intent was. You made your choice on how to interpret it.

Btw, I don’t need some smuck like you lecturing me on racism, when you have no clue who I am or my background. Take that and slap it in your face.

Can we get back to boating?

Please refrain from name calling, this violates our personal attacks conduct rules.

 

[Betik]

@Ronnie you are not being sensitive, you are simply conforming with social expectation that you are expected to experience racism. If you have the time to research on “Asch conformity experiments “ you will know what I mean.
I have been in this forum for 4 years and have noticed you are a bit of a chatterbox, yet I’m all those posts I do not recall you mentioning anything about being a victim of racism before. it kind of sounds that racism in America did not stop you going to law school either. Neither did it stop you from giving your 17 year old expensive toys that the average “Caucasian American” cannot afford in a lifetime. But these days you ( and all of us) are bombarded with messages of Wide spread racism.
so regardless of those guys were from the KKK or had best of intentions, their behavior is considered “racist”. Although the politically correct term is “micro aggression”.

My son does not backUp the car in the ramp, but he unloads and loads our ski by himself. If he was asked questions about being on the ski while I am parking our car I will not attribute that to the fact that he is clearly biracial, but on the fact that he is 7 years old.


Please tell me what you think about this .... if instead of those potentially racist boaters, your son was talking to horny 18 years Old white chicks that wanted to take advantage of his penis, you will not tribute that to racism, you will be like “ yea my son is a stud and those skis are worth every penny”. The white chicks could have been totally racist because of the perceived implication of you know what I mean. But in that context you don’t call the white chicks racist but rather social justice heroines.

as per your question that you don’t know what to advise yourson, I will tell you what i tell mine “ behave like the man you want to be, not like the man others see on you”.
If you are minority That is the only way to make “racism” fade away. This social justice crusade happening in the US these days is gambling on the fact that people who own 80% of the firearms in this country will get pushed in the corner without fighting back. I really hope like just as the USA & USSR realized that they were in a path mutually assured self distraction, our society figures this out before the cornered folks’ survival mechanism kicks in.
It is crazy that the country is closer to civil war now that it was 100 or 50 years ago.

 

[DRAT]

went to a jet boaters forum and a facebook broke out.

 

[seanmclean]

It’d be cool if everyone stopped giving Ronnie shit. This is the off-topic forum and he shared something personal that he found concerning. Either engage respectfully or move on. This isn’t that hard.

 

[fireflymedic]

You also have to remember a lot of boaters drink. He may have been dealing with a couple drunks.

 

[scokill]

Not politics but not totally unrelated to boating either. My 17 year old Son started taking our waverunners out without my wife Or I this summer (I.e., he tows, launches, pilots and recovers them by himself or with his friends. Last Friday he took them out with a friend of his and went on a food on the water run that we have done many times before without issue.

This time around he told me at least four different boaters asked him questions while he was at the guest dock. If they were general questions like what model ski is that? or how fast does it go? I would not think twice about it but all of the questions were around the legitimacy of him being there at all. For instance, whose jet skis are those? Did you rent them? How did you get them to the water? How did you get here? How old are you?

My son responded respectfully with the truth. They are my families skis, we own them. I trailered them from home to brannan island and we drove them here for lunch. I’m 17 and have a drivers license and boating card.

At first I thought they guys asking questions were just looking out for a fellow boater who might be missing pwcs but realize that no one had ever asked me such questions and I have never asked such questions of any boaters on the past, 25 plus years now. To top it off all the boaters who asked question of my Son were Caucasian. It is very clear that my Son is not Caucasian and neither is his friend that was with him that day. See the attached pic.

So am I being overly sensitive about this? Maybe it’s a good thing I wasn’t there because I’m sure I would have had a few choice questions for all of these guys, like that whose boat are you driving? How old are you? Can you prove that? Would you ask similarly situated Caucasian kids the same questions? I did not anticipate this happening to my Son so I didn’t prepare him for it or even discuss it with him before it happened. This makes the U.S in 2020 seem like the U.S. in 1960 IMHO and it all happened within 30 miles of the California State Capitol (a relatively diverse state).
View attachment 134075

What’s really frustrating, is that I don’t know how to properly advise my Son on how to handle this the next time it happens?

My son and his friend had same thing when they were teens....we are white. If you look real hard for something you will find it. I would tell them that there racist people in the world but assume good intentions unless proven otherwise. There are also assholes that are assholes to everyone. Easy for me to say though.

 

[Betik]

It’d be cool if everyone stopped giving Ronnie shit. This is the off-topic forum and he shared something personal that he found concerning. Either engage respectfully or move on. This isn’t that hard.

I am not sure if “everyone” is inclusive of me. If you feel that I am giving Ronnie shit please let me know here or drop me a PM. It was defiantly Not my I Te room at, as I think it is clear on my msg I believe he is a victim of social pressure. As matter of fact, I do appreciate him educating his son to politely answer the question when he or his friends had zero legal obligation to do so. That is why kids like ronnies love to become lawless instead of ending up some random videoclip. No matter what we discuss now, if those other boaters had a prejudice about kids looking like Ronnies kid, now that prejudice is cracked. It will take a lot more incidents like this before that prejudice is broken, it the more blows it receives the quicker it will go away.

as per Ronnie I do think he took my comments personally. in the past he has stated that there is no reason to visit fly over states such as Oklahoma and Arkansas. I did not take his comments personally or attributed them to a “smug CA type “ comments. In my opinion, he did not know any better. Just like the other boaters used the law of averages without knowing anything more about Ronnie and his family, so did he used whatever he hears about states like Oklahoma etc.
If you read my comments with an open mind you will see that there is no malice on my part and defiantly not a personal attack or try to give him shit. If however you feel that it is not true please do let me know because i would like to know.

 

[Gym]

Sorry to hear about this @Ronnie. I've followed your father/son stories and projects for many years to the point he seems like just one of our neighborhood kids.

I've been disturbed over the last several years due to the increased racial tensions especially at the hands of some police officers. I do have 3 LEOs in my family so I'm not focusing on them as a group just on the few.

I'm sure these idiots, who accosted your son and friends, wouldn't have the nerve to ask you these questions as you would have every right to give them a mouthful. Your son and his friends took the high road and deescalated the issue but that should never have happened. We still have a long way to go but it seems we're slipping backwards.

 

[AZMark]

@Ronnie you are not being sensitive, you are simply conforming with social expectation that you are expected to experience racism. If you have the time to research on “Asch conformity experiments “ you will know what I mean.
I have been in this forum for 4 years and have noticed you are a bit of a chatterbox, yet I’m all those posts I do not recall you mentioning anything about being a victim of racism before. it kind of sounds that racism in America did not stop you going to law school either. Neither did it stop you from giving your 17 year old expensive toys that the average “Caucasian American” cannot afford in a lifetime. But these days you ( and all of us) are bombarded with messages of Wide spread racism.
so regardless of those guys were from the KKK or had best of intentions, their behavior is considered “racist”. Although the politically correct term is “micro aggression”.

My son does not backUp the car in the ramp, but he unloads and loads our ski by himself. If he was asked questions about being on the ski while I am parking our car I will not attribute that to the fact that he is clearly biracial, but on the fact that he is 7 years old.


Please tell me what you think about this .... if instead of those potentially racist boaters, your son was talking to horny 18 years Old white chicks that wanted to take advantage of his penis, you will not tribute that to racism, you will be like “ yea my son is a stud and those skis are worth every penny”. The white chicks could have been totally racist because of the perceived implication of you know what I mean. But in that context you don’t call the white chicks racist but rather social justice heroines.

as per your question that you don’t know what to advise yourson, I will tell you what i tell mine “ behave like the man you want to be, not like the man others see on you”.
If you are minority That is the only way to make “racism” fade away. This social justice crusade happening in the US these days is gambling on the fact that people who own 80% of the firearms in this country will get pushed in the corner without fighting back. I really hope like just as the USA & USSR realized that they were in a path mutually assured self distraction, our society figures this out before the cornered folks’ survival mechanism kicks in.
It is crazy that the country is closer to civil war now that it was 100 or 50 years ago.

Someone successfully pursuing a difficult career means they've never experienced racism?
7 year olds alone on jet skis (actually illegal) are the same as 17 year olds?
Racist white chicks on the hunt for stereotypically big dicks?!

This is a wild post!!


It seems like Ronnie's first post was generally a gut check based on his (and his son's) instincts from whatever experiences he's had that none of us know, chatterbox or not. No one will ever know if there was any racism here, but it was obviously a genuine concern for him with regards to his son. Some of you are acting like he's ready to team up with Ben Crump and Al Sharpton to try and take down the boating establishment over this.

Those of you acting like it's a completely absurd implication that there could be any racism involved here at all, and that that's the only race problem in America today...come on...seriously? I'm not out rallying for BLM or anything but if you really think that then you either lead a ridiculously sheltered life, you've got your head in the sand, or you're being disingenuous in your comments.

This is a heated issue and there are people taking advantage of that in America today, but that's clearly not where this thread started. It's not 1960 but real racism is still out there and I assure you there are plenty of racists among the 10 million 'liberals' in the bay area.

@seanmclean is right, give the guy a break for voicing a concern in a reasonable manner.

 

[mwalker4]

I wish we could get a new terminology. My Dad was stationed Keesler AFB in Biloxi Mississippi when I was a kid in the 60's. Our family was part of the initial bussing to predominately African American schools. When you say Racism and Racists I am triggered because I am thinking about a time when those words were applied to some very extreme actions. While we have much improvement to go, I think how far we have come that we are discussing this incident. I don't know the motivation of the people, but as a few posts have said, the actions of the kids in the incident will go a long way to making a better world. I believe they potentially helped break a stereotype that these people may have had. This everyday interaction is how we go from here.

 

[Floridaman79]

So we really cannot know what motivated the people to ask the questions. Could have been age, could have been race, could have been people that are just plain nosy. The important thing imo is how your son reacted to the situation and I think being polite and respectful was absolutely the right thing to do. Even if the people were racist your son came out on the high ground which he can be proud of. Getting into a pissing contest wouldn't have helped him at all. If he sees the same people again, my guess is they'll probably just say hello.

Having said that, my neighbor would walk in the mornings at about 4 o'clock or so before getting ready for work. The police stopped him and questioned him. This was a grown black man with young adult children. I do believe that had that been me that the cops would have probably waved and drove on by based solely on our race. He was also polite and respectful to the police although he was visibly upset when he was talking to me about it. Racism sucks, and its important to speak out about it, but also to be respectful. Had my neighbor had it out with the police there's no telling what the outcome would have been, but I'm certain it wouldn't have been in his favor.

 

[scokill]

Sorry to hear about this @Ronnie. I've followed your father/son stories and projects for many years to the point he seems like just one of our neighborhood kids.

I've been disturbed over the last several years due to the increased racial tensions especially at the hands of some police officers. I do have 3 LEOs in my family so I'm not focusing on them as a group just on the few.

I'm sure these idiots, who accosted your son and friends, wouldn't have the nerve to ask you these questions as you would have every right to give them a mouthful. Your son and his friends took the high road and deescalated the issue but that should never have happened. We still have a long way to go but it seems we're slipping backwards.

Who was accosted? I missed that part of the story.

 

[Betik]

@AZMark
a white chick pursing an African American over Caucasian with the believe that his penis is bigger is by definition racist.
Here is what the 1st definition that come up when I googled it
"a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race "

a statement that says "racisms did not stop you from achieving successful and difficult career" is not the same as saying " you never experienced". When I say there is a non negative number that is less than 10, it does not mean the number I have in mind is "0".

Thank you for pointing out the legality of a first grader operating ski. Unless you have never driven over the speed limit or put non recyclable in the recycling bin, I suggest we skip over this.


If you get a chance to read my post again without the inclination to defend a fellow forum member whom you are perceiving to be the victim here, you will see that my statements make sense. It is very clear in my statements that in my opinion his kids handled superbly without having the legal obligation to do so. His kids did a good job and obviously so has Ronnie in their education. As hard as it might when it happens to your own child, you don't need to get worked up and try to maintain objectivity as much as possible.
Two years ago my daughter was asked multiple times by her elementary school teacher to tell them what tradition we have at home for Thanksgiving. Despite her consistent answer that we make turkey at home, the teacher kept asking about something that is different in our household. Until that day she was not cognizant that she is any different from her classmates, but sure enough since then she has started to develop an interest of my and my wife's background. I sent in a pure Texan to public education and I am getting back a second generation immigrant. So @AZMark, I really do not need to be told that there is hypocrisy when it comes to racism ( especially in the west coast), but by no means I think of the teacher was being racist. Incompetent maybe, but to this day I do believe she was trying to make my daughter feel welcome even her action led to the exact opposite. It is funny actually but the best way to alienate someone is by saying " I accept you for being different" when none asked your opinion.

We can debate here all day and all night, but the fact is that humans "hate" different type of humans. The south Italians hate the north Italians. The French hate the Germans, the Greek and Turks almost when to war like 2 weeks ago. As an American you don't give this a second thought, but if these feeling where to happen in the US between 2 different races it is racism. Wouldn't it be nice if we try to stop hating each other instead of saying is this kind of hate is BAD, but this other kind of hate is okay!!!!!!!

 

[tabbibus]

Sucks Ronnie. Glad you have raised your kid well. Stay strong my man.

On a side note, we should never label racism as a political topic. It should not be politics. It is just human decency.