Why does the 255 FSH Sport H have different impellers on the port and starboard engines?

[TeenGee]

The owner's manual for the 2024 25' FSH shows that the 255 Sport H has a 15.1º pitch impeller on the port engine and a 14.6º pitch impeller on the starboard engine.
What's up with that?

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Old school , the boat does not have counter rotating pumps so this causes the hull to pull to one side . They did this on the older boats and then stopped doing it and now they are back to doing it .

 

[TeenGee]

But why not on the 255 Sport E?

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Beats me, why did they stop doing it in the first place ??? it was standard procedure.

 

[TeenGee]

But, but, but you're supposed to know these things.
They probably thought it was simpler to use the same impeller on both engines and take the performance hit due to directional trim drag.

 

[TeenGee]

I think Yamaha uses the Articulated Keel (new school?) to trim out the pull to one side.
the FSH 255 H does not have an Articulated Keel (old school).

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Very plausible reasoning but I believe they stopped doing the different impeller pitches before they came up with the Achilles keel .

 

[TeenGee]

Well put. I'm glad to see the 255 H does not have one.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I don’t have any answer other than the differential pump loading caused by both engines rotating counterclockwise. I’ve had all my impellers changed to make up for this. The articulated keel was to help with the jet boat spin out in hard turns I believe.

Also keep in mind that the reverse gates are very different on the H model compared to the Sport E model.

 

[MilesPrower]

The Sport H doesn't have an articulating keel because its pumps don't always steer together. In other words, if it had a keel, which pump would it follow? Also, the keel would just add rotational resistance when the boat is being commanded to turn in place. So as y'all have surmised already, I bet the lack of an articulating keel required Yamaha to go back to impellers with different pitches in order for the boat to track straight(ish) , especially when the boat is "launching" on plane.

On a related note, during the first few months of owning my Sport E, I adjusted the angle of my pumps several times to adjust the boat's tracking without sacrificing straight-line speed. Eventually, I landed on one of the pumps and its associated Cobra fins "heeled out" slightly more than the other one — relative to the articulating keel. When I initially installed the fins, I mistakenly started with the keel centered... which caused the boat to pull to the side. And then I remembered that the boat came from the factory with the keel closer in angle to one pump vs. the other, and that's when I realized that the pumps are not counter-rotating, so the boat will tend to pull to one side.

I haven't been on a Sport H myself, but coincidentally, I caught up with my salesperson at my dealership a couple days ago when I was picking up my Sport E from its annual maintenance. She was raving about how the Sport H tracks so much better and is easier to dock, and that if she had the money, she would choose a Sport H without fins over a Sport E with fins, just on steering precision alone. (She was the person that originally convinced me to add Cobra fins to my first jet boat.)

On a side-note, I also adjusted the position of my transom-mount Active Imaging 3-in-1 transducer many times during a full day of testing on flat water with no wind, because even 1/2'' change in transducer position affected tracking and speed. (I've since mounted a second AI 3-in-1 so that each one is responsible for scanning its associated side.)

 

[TeenGee]

Thanks.
I am considering replacing the SimRad with a Garmin. On our 210FSH, I mounted a pair of GT56UHD side scan transducers on the ride plate using the metal Garmin transom brackets (look at post 46 on this thread https://jetboaters.net/threads/210-fsh-perfect-transducer-setup-what-is-it.30130/page-3). Since the ride plate on the Sport H is just a flat plate, I am considering drilling holes in the ride plate and mounting the GT56UHDs directly on the ride plate. Passing the cable through the ride plate. I would then route the cables into the hull above the waterline. It would look like a through hull install with the only hole in the hull above the waterline where the cables pass through.

 

[MilesPrower]

I missed your installation post when you posted it a couple years ago. Thanks for the link. Your installation looks awesome!

I know we all have our prefs, but here's my tangential 2¢ regarding Simrad vs. Garmin:

My 255 FSH has all Simrad/Lowrance/Navico electronics, including an NSS12 evo3S as my main MFD, and a Halo 20+ radar with HS60 GPS compass. My other boat has a Garmin system with multiple 86-series and x3-series MFDs and a Fantom 24x radar and MSC 10 GPS compass... at nearly twice the cost of my Simrad system. That boat came with a single Garmin MFD and a Fantom 18 radar. I swapped out all of the electronics but stuck with Garmin, thinking that an upgrade would give me better results.

The Simrad system is so much better for collision avoidance that the Garmin system seems like a toy — an incredibly expensive toy at that. Garmin's MARPA implementation is an effin' joke — it's 100% useless because it can't differentiate an actual collision target vs. some random unmoving object on a shoreline. I actually have to turn off MARPA on my Garmin because it just adds useless noise to the picture.

The Simrad will image, MARPA track, and warn me if I'm on a collision course with a dinghy, a kayak, or even a swimmer in the water! The Garmin has trouble imaging a small sailboat even in ideal conditions.

In addition to that, the Simrad can reliably image a single pelican a mile away. Meanwhile, the Garmin has problems finding flocks of birds no matter their distance and no matter what gain or filtering I set on the Garmin. So for finding birds (and therefore fish), Simrad radar hands down is better than Garmin.

Moreover, the radar-chart overlay on Simrad looks great and is very easy to decipher. Garmin's radar-chart overlay has poor color differentiation and too much extraneous detail, so coupled with Garmin's poor radar performance to begin with, you really need to run a second radar-only screen on the Garmin instead of a single overlay screen.

Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Garmin autopilot will not integrate with any trolling motor other than Garmin's (high-priced) Force and Force Kraken. At least with Simrad, you have the choice of going MotorGuide or Rhodan. I use the navigate-to-cursor feature of my Simrad's side and downscans all the time. If I see interesting structure or a group of fish on the sonar image, I can just touch the point on the image and command my trolling motor to take me to the actual location that corresponds to the cursor on the sonar image.

And another pain-point is that Garmin pretty much requires you to run the ActiveCaptain app to sync waypoints, tracks, and other user data, as well as apply updates (unless you want to use microSD sneakernet between your laptop and the MFDs). Meanwhile on my Simrad/Lowrance/Navico systems (in addition to my FSH, my two fishing kayaks also have Simrad/Lowrance MFDs), all I have to do is power them on, and they seamlessly sync and download updates as needed via my docks' wi-fi networks.

Okay, that rant was much longer than I originally though it'd be ... and maybe not so useful to anyone who's already decided on going with Garmin.

Oh, a whole 'nother thing to consider for your upcoming purchase of the Sport H — what's the autopilot integration with the Sport H's Helm Master look like?

My Garmin boat has Yamaha outboards and Helm Master EX. Getting level-3 autopilot (turn-by-turn Auto Guidance as well as regular ol' go-to waypoint(s)) to function as designed was a PITA — no thanks to Yamaha or Garmin, with each party blaming the other on why my autopilot wasn't working. But once I got it functional (after lots of trial and error with various Yamaha CL+ & J1939 doohickies), autopilot has been a real pleasure to use. I don't think I'll ever buy another offshore-capable boat without autopilot again.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I missed your installation post when you posted it a couple years ago. Thanks for the link. Your installation looks awesome!

I know we all have our prefs, but here's my tangential 2¢ regarding Simrad vs. Garmin:

My 255 FSH has all Simrad/Lowrance/Navico electronics, including an NSS12 evo3S as my main MFD, and a Halo 20+ radar with HS60 GPS compass. My other boat has a Garmin system with multiple 86-series and x3-series MFDs and a Fantom 24x radar and MSC 10 GPS compass... at nearly twice the cost of my Simrad system. That boat came with a single Garmin MFD and a Fantom 18 radar. I swapped out all of the electronics but stuck with Garmin, thinking that an upgrade would give me better results.

The Simrad system is so much better for collision avoidance that the Garmin system seems like a toy — an incredibly expensive toy at that. Garmin's MARPA implementation is an effin' joke — it's 100% useless because it can't differentiate an actual collision target vs. some random unmoving object on a shoreline. I actually have to turn off MARPA on my Garmin because it just adds useless noise to the picture.

The Simrad will image, MARPA track, and warn me if I'm on a collision course with a dinghy, a kayak, or even a swimmer in the water! The Garmin has trouble imaging a small sailboat even in ideal conditions.

In addition to that, the Simrad can reliably image a single pelican a mile away. Meanwhile, the Garmin has problems finding flocks of birds no matter their distance and no matter what gain or filtering I set on the Garmin. So for finding birds (and therefore fish), Simrad radar hands down is better than Garmin.

Moreover, the radar-chart overlay on Simrad looks great and is very easy to decipher. Garmin's radar-chart overlay has poor color differentiation and too much extraneous detail, so coupled with Garmin's poor radar performance to begin with, you really need to run a second radar-only screen on the Garmin instead of a single overlay screen.

Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Garmin autopilot will not integrate with any trolling motor other than Garmin's (high-priced) Force and Force Kraken. At least with Simrad, you have the choice of going MotorGuide or Rhodan. I use the navigate-to-cursor feature of my Simrad's side and downscans all the time. If I see interesting structure or a group of fish on the sonar image, I can just touch the point on the image and command my trolling motor to take me to the actual location that corresponds to the cursor on the sonar image.

And another pain-point is that Garmin pretty much requires you to run the ActiveCaptain app to sync waypoints, tracks, and other user data, as well as apply updates (unless you want to use microSD sneakernet between your laptop and the MFDs). Meanwhile on my Simrad/Lowrance/Navico systems (in addition to my FSH, my two fishing kayaks also have Simrad/Lowrance MFDs), all I have to do is power them on, and they seamlessly sync and download updates as needed via my docks' wi-fi networks.

Okay, that rant was much longer than I originally though it'd be ... and maybe not so useful to anyone who's already decided on going with Garmin.

Oh, a whole 'nother thing to consider for your upcoming purchase of the Sport H — what's the autopilot integration with the Sport H's Helm Master look like?

My Garmin boat has Yamaha outboards and Helm Master EX. Getting level-3 autopilot (turn-by-turn Auto Guidance as well as regular ol' go-to waypoint(s)) to function as designed was a PITA — no thanks to Yamaha or Garmin, with each party blaming the other on why my autopilot wasn't working. But once I got it functional (after lots of trial and error with various Yamaha CL+ & J1939 doohickies), autopilot has been a real pleasure to use. I don't think I'll ever buy another offshore-capable boat without autopilot again.

Do you think the auto pilot issues between the HM EX and your MFD would have been easier with a Simrad unit instead of the Garmin?

As far as I know, the HM EX on the H model is only for maneuvering and does not have any of the other features that the outboard HM EX has. This needs to be corrected by Yamaha as all of those functions are highly desirable.

 

[MilesPrower]

Oh, I forgot another weird tidbit that I learned at the dealership a couple days ago.

I'd noticed not long ago that one of my reverse gates, which are operated by linear servos, starts to open before the other one does, and as I nudge my two throttle levers forward by the same amount, the gate that starts to open first remains more "open" than the other until they're both fully open.

I had asked my service rep when I dropped off the boat to adjust the gates (or servos) for me so they'd open in unison.

Well... when I went to pick up the boat, the tech came out and told me that the uneven gate position was by design, because that's how the Sport E tracks straight at no-wake speeds.

 

[MilesPrower]

Do you think the auto pilot issues between the HM EX and your MFD would have been easier with a Simrad unit instead of the Garmin?

As far as I know, the HM EX on the H model is only for maneuvering and does not have any of the other features that the outboard HM EX has. This needs to be corrected by Yamaha as all of those functions are highly desirable.

I haven't attempted a Simrad to Helm Master EX installation, so I don't know.

But dang, that's a true disappointment that the Sport H's HM EX doesn't support autopilot integration!!!

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I haven't attempted a Simrad to Helm Master EX installation, so I don't know.

But dang, that's a true disappointment that the Sport H's HM EX doesn't support autopilot integration!!!

Right? Like, spot lock, fish point, drift point, slow troll etc… I questioned one person who might be more in the know, and that person said that the engineers were working on the software to put the HM EX features on the H model. The way I see it, the H model incorporates the same maneuvering capabilities as the DRivE X that is on the 255 XD and the 27’ boats, if I have that right. Having all of the HM EX features on the 255 FSH H model would be like hitting a grand slam at the last game of the world series to win it…

 

[MilesPrower]

Right? Like, spot lock, fish point, drift point, slow troll etc… I questioned one person who might be more in the know, and that person said that the engineers were working on the software to put the HM EX features on the H model. The way I see it, the H model incorporates the same maneuvering capabilities as the DRivE X that is on the 255 XD and the 27’ boats, if I have that right. Having all of the HM EX features on the 255 FSH H model would be like hitting a grand slam at the last game of the world series to win it…

Yeah, and come to think of it, I use Drift Track all the time in my HM EX boat for drift fishing, in addition to Heading Lock, Course Lock, and Contour Follow for trolling.

Drift Track, which is an unlabeled feature, allows you to draw a path on the MFD that is in the general direction of your natural drift. Then you choose Navigate To on the MFD, and rotate the HM EX's joystick to point the bow to your desired heading. When you hit the Drift Point button, the boat will start its drift, but the motors will spool up as necessary (to whatever RPM threshold you've set) to keep the boat on the drawn path with the bow pointed at the desired heading.

For near & offshore fishing here in the Redneck Riviera, where there are thousands of artificial reefs, some tightly grouped together, Drift Track is great for hitting a string of reefs with minimal motor run, while keeping the boat broadside of its path, so you can have multiple lines out without running outriggers.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Yeah, and come to think of it, I use Drift Track all the time in my HM EX boat for drift fishing, in addition to Heading Lock, Course Lock, and Contour Follow for trolling.

Drift Track, which is an unlabeled feature, allows you to draw a path on the MFD that is in the general direction of your natural drift. Then you choose Navigate To on the MFD, and rotate the HM EX's joystick to point the bow to your desired heading. When you hit the Drift Point button, the boat will start its drift, but the motors will spool up as necessary (to whatever RPM threshold you've set) to keep the boat on the drawn path with the bow pointed at the desired heading.

For near & offshore fishing here in the Redneck Riviera, where there are thousands of artificial reefs, some tightly grouped together, Drift Track is great for hitting a string of reefs with minimal motor run, while keeping the boat broadside of its path, so you can have multiple lines out without running outriggers.

That ability to keep the bow pointed whatever direction you want is gold! I can do something similar with my MinnKota and my Solix mfd, but the bow will always be pointed into the wind, as as the wind can whip around different directions so to will the bow of the boat and cross things up. The HM EX is definitely worth every penny (and there’s a lot of them!) that it costs. If I ever go to a more conventional boat, it will have twin digital Yamaha outboards with the HM EX.

 

[MilesPrower]

That ability to keep the bow pointed whatever direction you want is gold! I can do something similar with my MinnKota and my Solix mfd, but the bow will always be pointed into the wind, as as the wind can whip around different directions so to will the bow of the boat and cross things up. The HM EX is definitely worth every penny (and there’s a lot of them!) that it costs. If I ever go to a more conventional boat, it will have twin digital Yamaha outboards with the HM EX.

Seriously, managing drift with HM EX is so easy. I never want to pull out my drift socks again — what a hassle they were!!!

 

[TeenGee]

@MilesPrower.
Thanks for you comments on Simrad v. Garmin. I'm not sold on Garmin, I've always used Garmin.
What model Simrad comes with the 255 H?