The Vaccine

[Jim_in_Delaware]

[

FDA approved. Now what's the next excuse?

Here is a link to the FDA press release.

A snippet,

"Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved the first COVID-19 vaccine. The vaccine has been known as the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, and will now be marketed as Comirnaty (koe-mir’-na-tee), for the prevention of COVID-19 disease in individuals 16 years of age and older. The vaccine also continues to be available under emergency use authorization (EUA), including for individuals 12 through 15 years of age and for the administration of a third dose in certain immunocompromised individuals."

Jim

 

[Julian]

How can you say the open border crisis is not an issue with unvaccinated, when 2 pages ago you talked about the R0 factor and this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated? Kinda hypocritical, no? What's the math look like on an R0=3 with the amount of undocumented, untested, unvaccinated people filtering into the country? And they aren't filtering into your state in NC! They are here in TX first. If you don't think it's a concern for this state your crazy.

I didn't say its not an issue, I did say it isn't a major contributing factor. But since so many citizens are balking at being vaccinated, I'm sure those immigrants (legal and illegal) will be delighted to get a vaccine.

 

[MidnightRider]

In retrospect, I would have been pissed if I was denied entry into the hospital because it was full of people who willing passed on getting vaccinated. I understand the freedom of choice arguments but when someone intentionally chooses to go unvaccinated I think they should also be reprioritized behind those who have been vaccinated where medical care in concerned. By analogy, if I choose to engage in risky activity, like climbing Mount Everest, I have to intentionally accept that I may not be rescued if things go wrong.

Huh?! Care should always be prioritized on who needs it the most, no? Can you imagine coming in as a dying trauma patient from rocking climbing and are told you need to wait til I treat this person's broken finger first because you decided to go rock climbing and that was a more risky life choice. You start prioritizing care based on people's life choices and you'll open a whole can of ridiculous worms.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

It is scapegoating to call immigrants the problem of the covid spread. There is no reason to believe they are any more, or less, spreaders of the disease than the rest of us. The point is they make up less than 1% of the unvaccinated. While they might contribute to the spread of the disease, it is a tiny, tiny, part.



Jim

 

[WiskyDan]

Btw. My ICU is full. We opened up a new floor and filled it up right away. Some other non covid folks here need a bed with us and I can't help them because... You know. But vaccination only affects the unvaccinated right?

Wait a minute........a few days ago you posted that you had two new COVID patients and only one bed left. The "tone" of your post was that you decided which of the two persons would get to live and which one would get thrown out on the street to die:

It is me. I did decide. Both unvaxxed btw.

So

So, in reality, you didn't decide who was going to die - you opened up another floor - or am I missing something? I'm not downplaying the fact that this spreads the hospital staff thin but just trying to figure out if what comes out of your mouth/keyboard is dramatized or not - at this point it's hard to tell.

And, "not trying to be a dick here, just curious" how do you find all this time to post on a jetboaters website about what you're dealing with at work? Wouldn't your time be better spent sleeping/resting?

A couple of suggestions:

1- Push yourself back from your keyboard and take a deep breath - with all the tears streaming down your face (guessing this based on the tone of 90% of your posts) you could get electrocuted. How many keyboards have you shorted out?

2- Go outside and pound another "A hero lives here" sign in your front yard. Slinging a hammer around may get some aggression out and make you feel better.

I hope that this doesn't hurt your feelings too much but I'm sure that the group of boot-licking lapdogs that always show up to pat you on the back will be along shortly and say how mean I am. Maybe my post will even get censored by the admins as that seems to be the trend around here.

Based on the admins ignoring BigN8 being OK with closing this thread, and their disinterest in getting it back on track, it must mean that they're OK with it becoming a free for all - have at it.

Oh, and since one of the admin's said it earlier in this thread - which makes it OK - maybe you should either pull up your big boy pants, look for a different occupation, or just "shut the fuck up".

 

[Julian]

Reminder....personal attacks of other members will be unapproved and warnings given per our Code of Conduct. Lets keep it civil people.

 

[MidnightRider]

"Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved the first COVID-19 vaccine. The vaccine has been known as the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, and will now be marketed as Comirnaty (koe-mir’-na-tee), for the prevention of COVID-19 disease in individuals 16 years of age and older. The vaccine also continues to be available under emergency use authorization (EUA), including for individuals 12 through 15 years of age and for the administration of a third dose in certain immunocompromised individuals."

I'm concerned for my teenagers when it comes to vaccine safety. I have 2 known cases within my network of friends of friends where 2 different teens end up in the ICU with heart issues - confirmed side effect of the vaccine. Your telling me no, no, no... its safe and your just ridiculous if you don't vaccinate your kids. I'm so sick of people assuming that I just don't care and I'm being irresponsible and that I'm selfish and hate other people and continue to downplay the heavy, heavy heavy decision this is. Here are two sets of parents that are devastated that they made the decision to vax their kids and wish all the world they could go back and change that decision. This is a decision that most parents are not taking lightly at all and a very difficult decision when looking the face of ICU visits on both sides of the choice. People need to do more shutting up and leave this tough decision to the parents that love their kids more than life itself and understand what facing this choice really means to them.

Edit: sorry in my rant mode I forgot to address the quote I included - genuine question: if this vaccine is so safe why not approve it from 12-15... Why purposely leave out the 12-15 from approval - what does that mean.. they aren't sure if its safe for a 15 year old? oh but magically on the day they turn 16 it is safe for them so approval for them makes sense? So many of these type of statements that really leads me to believe that nobody really knows anything and everyone is just guessing, yet so many talk like they are 100% sure of what the answer is - but then the answer keeps changing. I get that things will evolve as we know more, that's fine - but then stop talking like you know for sure that something is safe and there isn't any chance for it to be found out not safe in the future. Nobody knows, there could be a commercial in 10 years... "if you took the Pfizer vaccine back in 2020 and have experienced xxxxx call the office of Jones, Jones, and Smith". Not saying don't take the vaccine but that is a personal choice and not everyone that doesn't is a selfish flake.

 

[crazy4life]

Reminder....personal attacks of other members will be unapproved and warnings given per our Code of Conduct. Lets keep it civil people.

This a joke right. There have been plenty of personnel attacks in this thread by the admins and their sycophants.
Maybe we should start with them.

 

[BigN8]

It is scapegoating to call immigrants the problem of the covid spread. There is no reason to believe they are any more, or less, spreaders of the disease than the rest of us. The point is they make up less than 1% of the unvaccinated. While they might contribute to the spread of the disease, it is a tiny, tiny, part.



Jim

Well, based on an R0=3 with the Delta variant and our YTD southern border immigrant "encounters" at 1,331,822, ( based on CBP.gov) that doesn't seem too tiny to me. Let's say of that 1.33M people 1M are not vaccinated fully. So for every 1 person they infect 3 people, Then that 3M people infect another 3 people each. TX is above average for vaccinated people based on the National average, yet our numbers are still high. I wonder why that is? We are trying to paddle up a river with one boat paddle. I'm not saying that this is "the major problem", but for anyone to just dismiss it is ridiculous.

 

[Julian]

I'm concerned for my teenagers when it comes to vaccine safety. I have 2 known cases within my network of friends of friends where 2 different teens end up in the ICU with heart issues - confirmed side effect of the vaccine. Your telling me no, no, no... its safe and your just ridiculous if you don't vaccinate your kids. I'm so sick of people assuming that I just don't care and I'm being irresponsible and that I'm selfish and hate other people and continue to downplay the heavy, heavy heavy decision this is. Here are two sets of parents that are devastated that they made the decision to vax their kids and wish all the world they could go back and change that decision. This is a decision that most parents are not taking lightly at all and a very difficult decision when looking the face of ICU visits on both sides of the choice. People need to do more shutting up and leave this tough decision to the parents that love their kids more than life itself and understand what facing this choice really means to them.

Edit: sorry in my rant mode I forgot to address the quote I included - genuine question: if this vaccine is so safe why not approve it from 12-15... Why purposely leave out the 12-15 from approval - what does that mean.. they aren't sure if its safe for a 15 year old? oh but magically on the day they turn 16 it is safe for them so approval for them makes sense.

The decision lies with each individual or parent. Any side effect is bad. But these are rare. And the 5 degrees of separation seems to narrow when it comes to bad things happening. YES - bad reactions occur, but the rate is tiny. It gets blown massively out of proportion by social media. Bad reactions are bad. But drugs/vaccines don't get pulled because of a minimal number of bad reactions. I have an anaphylactic reaction to Advil - but I don't get on social media saying - DON'T TAKE ADVIL - despite the fact that it could kill me.

This a joke right. There have been plenty of personnel attacks in this thread by the admins and their sycophants.
Maybe we should start with them.

No this isn't a joke. Sometimes this (and other threads) get out of hand (we don't have enough moderators to watch all the time). People start an attack, others quote it and attack back and shit happens. Moderators and Admins aren't perfect - we never said we are. We can get caught up in the heat of things too. But lets try and have cooler minds prevail.

I'm happy to be called out if you think I crossed a line. I may have sometimes - but I'm human and will admit my mistakes.

 

[adrianp89]

I keep hearing this from local nurses and doctors, but looks like this is outside my echo chamber as well.

A Hospital Finds an Unlikely Group Opposing Vaccination: Its Workers

NEW YORK — Their movement started discreetly — just a handful of people communicating on encrypted apps like WhatsApp and Signal. But in just days, it had ballooned tenfold. And within two weeks, it had turned into a full-blown public protest, with people waving picket signs to denounce efforts...

www.yahoo.com

The last bit of the story is scary, poor nurse tried to the do the "right" thing and got screwed.

 

[MidnightRider]

The decision lies with each individual or parent. Any side effect is bad. But these are rare. And the 5 degrees of separation seems to narrow when it comes to bad things happening. YES - bad reactions occur, but the rate is tiny. It gets blown massively out of proportion by social media. Bad reactions are bad. But drugs/vaccines don't get pulled because of a minimal number of bad reactions. I have an anaphylactic reaction to Advil - but I don't get on social media saying - DON'T TAKE ADVIL - despite the fact that it could kill me.

All the rare, degrees of separation talk doesn't mean $h!1t when your child is lying the ICU fight for their life. It works both ways, I would never tell a parent not to vaccinate their child but I would never look down on them for choosing to not do it either. Who am I to second guess their decision either way.

 

[WiskyDan]

Reminder....personal attacks of other members will be unapproved and warnings given per our Code of Conduct. Lets keep it civil people.

Way too late for that, don't you think?? This thread is sprinkled with direct and subtle personal attacks for as far back as most can stomach to read it. The proof is I can say "shut the fuck up" and if it's removed it makes the admins that allow this dumpster fire to continue look like hypocrites.

This thread went way off the rails and the admins allowed it to happen - it could have redirected it to it's intended use but some were more concerned about proving their moral and intellectual superiority.

EDIT: I got my first Pfizer shot two weeks ago and get my second one this Sunday - I'm not in the tin foil hat crowd.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Edit: sorry in my rant mode I forgot to address the quote I included - genuine question: if this vaccine is so safe why not approve it from 12-15... Why purposely leave out the 12-15 from approval - what does that mean.. they aren't sure if its safe for a 15 year old? oh but magically on the day they turn 16 it is safe for them so approval for them makes sense.

Respectfully, it does make sense.

The Emergency Use Authorization was based on large scale clinical studies. The final Approval was based on much greater volumes of data. There is much more data on older folks. Remember, for the general population (non-healthcare workers and folks with other conditions) the vaccine was rolled out to seniors, then folks over 18, then younger folks.

Thus, approval (at this time) is for ages 16 and up. As more data is collected and reviewed I have no doubt that the approval will be for ages 12 and up.

As more clinical data is available, we likely will see Emergency Use Authorization (EAU) for younger children as well. I would also guess that as more data is collected on children we will eventually see Approval for this age range as well.

The only 'magic' between age 15 and 16 is the amount of clinical data available for these ages.

Jim

 

[Julian]

Way too late for that, don't you think?? This thread is sprinkled with direct and subtle personal attacks for as far back as most can stomach to read it. The proof is I can say "shut the fuck up" and if it's removed it makes the admins that allow this dumpster fire to continue look like hypocrites.

This thread went way off the rails and the admins allowed it to happen - it could have redirected it to it's intended use but some were more concerned about proving their moral and intellectual superiority.

This thread has had its ups and downs for sure. We avoid closing threads when we can - as we don't like censorship.

As I just said - there aren't enough of us to police every thread 24/7. We do our best. We do fail. Sorry you don't like that. But personal attacks, when caught, will be removed.

 

[Robconn]

On a side note, I think the US has a real dilemma with a shortage of healthcare workers and the real cause for this is not what people think it is. We are in that college phase with our kids, so we hear about their friends and our friends kids college trials and tribulations. It's amazing to hear how much of a challenge all these young folks are having trying to get into nursing school. Some of these kids are smart, and got good grades, but yet are sitting idle working as a waitress while they wait to keep applying for nursing school. I don't know if nursing school is just that picky, or there is not enough nursing school classes to support all these kids?? But it baffles me to hear about the shortage of healthcare workers and yet I personally know of a handful of kids that are dying to get into nursing school.

You also have to factor the nursing educators. There is only a finite amount of professors and clinical instructors in place. In each clinical setting there is a specific ratio of students to instructors. Which is a natural bottleneck and limits the number of potential graduates. It is designed so the student will receive direct feedback on their application and theory. Too many students per instructor and the quality of education suffers and ultimately patients. In Any health care field, not just nursing there is a shortage as well. The above mentioned holds just as true.

 

[haknslash]

FDA approved. Now what's the next excuse?

Glad it’s finally approved and hopefully this helps some who are on the fence. Still doesn’t dispel concerns for all I’m sure but it’s better than nothing. So far vaccination rates have increased over the past month or so.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Well, based on an R0=3 with the Delta variant and our YTD southern border immigrant "encounters" at 1,331,822, ( based on CBP.gov) that doesn't seem too tiny to me. Let's say of that 1.33M people 1M are not vaccinated fully. So for every 1 person they infect 3 people, Then that 3M people infect another 3 people each. TX is above average for vaccinated people based on the National average, yet our numbers are still high. I wonder why that is? We are trying to paddle up a river with one boat paddle. I'm not saying that this is "the major problem", but for anyone to just dismiss it is ridiculous.

It was not my intent to dismiss it, just to put it in perspective.

Wouldn't your math also work for any unvaccinated American (in Texas or anywhere else). My point was, using the previously supplied numbers, immigrants make up less than 1% of the number of unvaccinated people in the U.S. From a public health perspective, the health of ALL unvaccinated people is a concern, both the 1% of immigrants and the 99% of our fellow Americans.

Jim

 

[haknslash]

So your position is that because 1 million immigrants arrive in the US every year, there is no point in getting vaccinated? You do realize we have 328 million people in the country...yes? And 189 million people have had at least one vaccine dose. That leaves 139 million people still unvaccinated. So you are saying that because we are adding .7% (3/4 of one percent) to the total unvaccinated count, we can't contain the disease. Last week we had a couple of days where we vaccinated a million people in one day. Now, I would have ZERO problem saying to the 77% of those immigrants who enter legally - that a provision of entry is you must be vaccinated. There are plenty of countries saying to tourists - to enter you must be vaccinated.

But I am still confused how immigration plays a major role in this discussion. A tiny fraction of the problem - yes. Seems to me you have a bigger anti immigration platform than you do a solid Covid argument.

I’m short all of the numbers matter. What I don’t get is why people have an issue with accountability and knowing what, who and where these viruses are being spread and address those issues collectively. Burying our heads in the sand doesn’t help mitigate the spread. It amazes me the double standard position some people have on controlling the spread. It’s like X type of people get the wrath from vaxxed people but don’t dare look over here at Y people who are also stressing the system and our nation. I just think right now is NOT the best time for flooding immigration crisis. Surely anyone truly concerned over this pandemic can see the issue there.

 

[Julian]

I’m short all of the numbers matter. What I don’t get is why do people have an issue with accountability and knowing what, who and where these viruses are being spread and address those issues collectively. Burying our heads in the sand doesn’t help mitigate the spread. It amazes me the double standard position some people have on controlling the spread. It’s like X type of people get the wrath from vaxxed people but don’t dare look over here at Y people who are also stressing the system and our nation.

I'm all for putting in a mandate that immigrants must be vaccinated unless they have a healthcare exemption. As I said, many countries have already done this for tourists - no reason we couldn't for immigrants & tourists. Admittedly this doesn't help with the 27% illegal immigrants - but it improves the overall situation.