The Vaccine

[Julian]

Again, till 80% of the population has been infected in some form this will continue. Vax will not stop it but its obvious previously infected and vaxd will have a far better outcome.

Far less taxing on our healthcare system if they just get vaccinated. And will result in far fewer deaths and covid long haulers.

As @tabbibus and others have said, its frustrating to be treating all the people who could have avoided it.

My daughter has major surgery scheduled for November...now we are worried that all these un vaccinated covid admissions will cause further elective surgery deferrals. All because they refuse to get a vaccine!!! Grrrrrr.

Not to mention that these hospitals will lose more money because of this...and many are operating with narrow or negative margins pre covid!

 

[haknslash]

All this unvaccinated versus vaccinated talk is meaningless while we just let hundreds of thousands of people casually into our country from god only knows where and then dumped into communities across the nation while spreading the virus. It’s like trying to keep a boat from sinking when all you have is a 12 ounce cup yet the boat has 12” hole in the bottom of it. Basically you’re screwed no matter what if you don’t stop up the 12” hole.

I’m vaxxed and it’s kind of scary how some of y’all are posting about your fellow Americans and their choice of life. Not everyone who chooses to be unvaccinated thinks COVID is a hoax. Some people have legitimate concerns of taking it. Hell I do from time to time because like it or not it was and still is an emergency drug we took. We don’t know what the long term effects will be. We simply don’t and that’s the truth. My daughter is about to turn 12 in two months and I’m still not certain we are going to vaccinate her. It doesn’t matter what specialty vaccine research was done in the past for other SARS COVID when this is something obviously entirely new to the planet.

Speaking of vaccines it seems more and more breakthrough cases are appearing and yes even IN THE HOSPITAL. The reality is none of us know what is in store for the far future or hell even tomorrow with the way things are going, but to see the way some of y’all are acting towards other people who chose for whatever reason (religion, fears of the unknown, hoax believers or whatever) is like something out of a horror flick. I’m vaxxed and I try and tell people it’s probably the best thing to do but I also tell them I’m not a doctor. Even if I were a doctor that really doesn’t mean much when we’ve all seen some shit some doctors and the medical community have done, especially as of late. It’s not my place to be a walking ad for something I don’t even know for myself what it might be doing to me in the long haul or how someone else may react to it on their first dose. Imagine telling someone to get vaxxed and they die because they are one of the rare people that just has some kind of negative reaction to it. That same person yes could also die from COVID...or they could just have mild to even no symptoms. Peoples bodies react to this shit differently and I’m not about to start shaming people for whatever they want or not want to stick in their bodies. Sorry had to get that off my chest.

BTW, I still wake up in the middle of the night with unbelievable leg and muscle cramps. I thought I was going to pass out it was so bad the other night!! Never had this until getting vaxxed. Is it the culprit? I’ll never know I’m sure and it could be from other things for all I know. What I do know is that it never happened before. Just trying to get the thread back in topic instead of the constant people shaming it has devolved into.

 

[Julian]

I'm not trying to shame people. But when confronted with people saying I'm not getting it because:

• it doesn't work
• there is no virus
• no one has died of covid
• the vaccine is worse than the cure
• more people are being hospitalized with vaccines than without
• its safer to just let everyone get covid and get natural anti bodies than get the vaccine
• Vaccines aren't available
• You have to schedule weeks or months in advance
• it goes against my religion
• Etc etc

It drives me fing bonkers (I've read all the above-or heard directly) because all of those statements above are wrong (unless you are a member of some new religion).

I'm fine if you and your doctor have determined you aren't a good candidate for the vaccine.
I'm fine if you've had covid and feel safe with what is effectively one dose of a vaccine (I wouldn't make that choice).
I get that many people fear modern medicine. Its a shame, but I'll not shame you for it. I will try and educate you about the risks....but that is what your doctor is for (unfortunately many people never see a doctor).

But I won't sit by quietly and let someone fear monger anti vax rhetoric with any of the many lies and outright bullshit that some people are coming up with.

We've had effective vaccines since 1800. Each vaccine works with varying degrees of side effects and efficacy. Our health systems evaluate each one to determine risk vs reward. The covid vaccines yield high efficacy with very low risk.

What is the alternative? Just let the disease run its course? We already have a shortage of healthcare workers. Many have quit because they are simply exhausted. So we just let it roll. Allow mortality to increase? Start turning away covid patients from hospitals in deference to people with other critical conditions for which there is treatment to lower the load on our already teetering hospitals and staff? Put some sort of quota on how many covid patients we'll treat (assuming an overload).

I'm working from home til next June....I'm lucky. I guess I could say..."screw it...let em die...it was their choice". But I'm concerned about how many people are believing the crap some people are spewing. And I feel it is important to counter that crap with facts and data. The alternative is do nothing....and as someone who works in Healthcare I simply can't keep quiet when I hear lies....

Probably a character flaw of some sort...

 

[haknslash]

Imagine how deflated you’re going to feel when/if this doesn’t go away with 10 different vaccines and 1,000 boosters you’ve injected in your body year after year, month after month. If you think boosters will be needed for eternity do you really think people will continue to inject themselves with experimental booster after experimental booster or just roll the dice which still favors surviving COVID versus dying if you get it? I can’t speak for anyone else but myself, but I don‘t think I want to be a lab rat for identifying long term effects any more than I feel I have to be. There’s also the theory that the vaccines are causing the virus to mutate more as it circulates throughout the planet time after time. So maybe us vaccinated folk are in a small percentage or strange way making this worse, to a degree of course, in terms of mutation. If there is a shred of truth to that then we carry some of the burden.

The simple fact I’ve learned from this whole thing is everyone thinks they have “the solution”. If X just does Y then Z won’t happen. Months later Z still happens. That is the only constant in this whole shitty nightmare. What is everyone going to do if the entire world got vaccinated overnight and this thing still mutates and spreads? What a gut blow that would be. Sometimes we as a whole are just dealt a shitty hand in life. Personally I think this is one of those times. Everything around us just sucks to high shit.

 

[tabbibus]

Brother. Please. It is not experimental. That's the falacy.

Also, we get shots for influenza every year. If I need a booster for covid on a similar schedule so be it.

I'm tired of people saying it's experimental and then come to the hospital demanding all the truly experimental shit we give them. Just to end up dying. That, my friend, is what deflates me.

There's no true indication that the vaccine makes the virus mutate. It's yet another ball of misinformation to fuel this fire.

I don't get it. I truly don't. This week has been hell for me. This month has been hell for many of my co-workers. And it is completely preventable. Yet misinformation wins. And kills.

 

[Julian]

Imagine how deflated you’re going to feel when/if this doesn’t go away with 10 different vaccines and 1,000 boosters you’ve injected in your body year after year, month after month. If you think boosters will be needed for eternity do you really think people will continue to inject themselves with experimental booster after experimental booster or just roll the dice which still favors surviving COVID versus dying if you get it? I can’t speak for anyone else but myself, but I don‘t think I want to be a lab rat for identifying long term effects any more than I feel I have to be. There’s also the theory that the vaccines are causing the virus to mutate more as it circulates throughout the planet time after time. So maybe us vaccinated folk are in a small percentage or strange way making this worse, to a degree of course, in terms of mutation. If there is a shred of truth to that then we carry some of the burden.

The simple fact I’ve learned from this whole thing is everyone thinks they have “the solution”. If X just does Y then Z won’t happen. Months later Z still happens. That is the only constant in this whole shitty nightmare. What is everyone going to do if the entire world got vaccinated overnight and this thing still mutates and spreads? What a gut blow that would be. Sometimes we as a whole are just dealt a shitty hand in life. Personally I think this is one of those times. Everything around us just sucks to high shit.

We've been developing effective vaccines for viruses for 200 years. Could this be a new virus that somehow defeats our attempt to contain it....sure. But the odds are against that outcome.

 

[haknslash]

Also regarding religions and vaccines, yes there are indeed some religions that do not allow for it. Article from Vanderbilt University Medical Center

Immunizations and Religion | Vanderbilt Faculty & Staff Health and Wellness

www.vumc.org

Granted those aren’t highly popular religions, at least not in my area, but to say that you have all the facts is simply not true. You can’t be a crusader for something that has so much unknown. Just my .02

 

[tabbibus]

Also regarding religions and vaccines, yes there are indeed some religions that do not allow for it. Article from Vanderbilt University Medical Center

Immunizations and Religion | Vanderbilt Faculty & Staff Health and Wellness

www.vumc.org

Granted those aren’t highly popular religions, at least not in my area, but to say that you have all the facts is simply not true. You can’t be a crusader for something that has so much unknown. Just my .02

So in essence the ones that can decline vaccination should also not go the hospital as we would not provide faith based therapy. Heck. They should never see a doctor

 

[haknslash]

Today’s misinformation was yesterday’s facts, I could poke a ton of holes in all the “misinformation’ that at the time may have been spoken as fact but as time went on later found out to be false. Please don’t make me go there.

 

[haknslash]

So in essence the ones that can decline vaccination should also not go the hospital as we would not provide faith based therapy. Heck. They should never see a doctor

I can’t speak on that. I was only showing there was misinformation in this thread regarding vaccines and some religions.

 

[haknslash]

We've been developing effective vaccines for viruses for 200 years. Could this be a new virus that somehow defeats our attempt to contain it....sure. But the odds are against that outcome.

Look up the Cutter incident. Sure ...nothing could ever go wrong with a vaccine (sarcasm engaged). And that wasn’t that long ago when you think about it. What about those who developed Guillain-Barré syndrome after taking part in the Swine Flu immunization program?

As recent as September 2020 vaccine experts were warning the federal government not to rush the vaccines because they wanted to ensure they were safe for humans. I’m sorry but if they weren’t fully developed and tested for mass human injections by September of last year how in the heck is anyone to know what may or may not become of the vaccine(s) long term lol? Nobody knows. Yes we were all experimental to a degree, like it or not. It just is what it is and I accept the fact I took a drug that was not FDA approved and for emergency use only.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

All this unvaccinated versus vaccinated talk is meaningless while we just let hundreds of thousands of people casually into our country from god only knows where and then dumped into communities across the nation while spreading the virus. It’s like trying to keep a boat from sinking when all you have is a 12 ounce cup yet the boat has 12” hole in the bottom of it. Basically you’re screwed no matter what if you don’t stop up the 12” hole.

I seriously do not understand the logic of this paragraph. There are 120 million Americans who have not received even one dose of a covid vaccine, yet you seem more concerned about several hundreds of thousands of immigrants?

My bigger concern is the 120 million unvaccinated Americans, many of who are engaging in risky behavior, encouraged by govenors who place their own personal ambitions above the health of their citizens they should be concerned about.

Jim

 

[adrianp89]

I seriously do not understand the logic of this paragraph. There are 120 million Americans who have not received even one dose of a covid vaccine, yet you seem more concerned about several hundreds of thousands of immigrants?

My bigger concern is the 120 million unvaccinated Americans, many of who are engaging in risky behavior, encouraged by govenors who place their own personal ambitions above the health of their citizens they should be concerned about.

Jim

of those 120 million, have many have had COVID?

A few weeks ago garlic smelled horrible for me and my wife. We love the smell of garlic, opened fresh garlic, minced garlic, it all smelled the same. Never felt sick but now it’s back to normal. I assume we got COVID possibly for the third time. I can’t know for sure but not sure of any other explanation.

I wish OneBlood still did anti-body tests, would love to see how levels are doing. I can only assume my body is laughing at COVID by this point. Yes that’s conceited but it’s probably true. I am in big groups and around new people multiple times a week (and no one wears a mask here)

 

[haknslash]

I seriously do not understand the logic of this paragraph. There are 120 million Americans who have not received even one dose of a covid vaccine, yet you seem more concerned about several hundreds of thousands of immigrants?

My bigger concern is the 120 million unvaccinated Americans, many of who are engaging in risky behavior, encouraged by govenors who place their own personal ambitions above the health of their citizens they should be concerned about.

Jim

Yes because they spread the diseases just like the big bad non vaccinated and vaccinated people. You do realize these hundreds of thousands ahem asylum seekers are being distributed across the nation right? It would not surprise me the number is now in the millions instead of hundreds of thousands pouring in. Considering Delta variant spreads a crapload more than other variants, yes this is just as important. I mean if we are talking about unvaxxed people stressing the hospitals where do you think illegal aliens will go when they need help? Should we turn those people away as easily as turning away or prioritizing unvaccinated US citizens is being discussed here too? Even if they don’t go to the hospitals they’re still in our local communities causing community spread and hot spots which in turns of course just further exasperates the strain on their respective local hospitals. They should have been turned around at the border but nope they (government) don’t truly care about stopping a pandemic. It’s only for publicity, power and politics.

If they truly cared about the health of Americans the border would be closed and there would be international travel restrictions. But alas here we are, in the middle of a pandemic, migrants are walking in without issue carrying lord knows what on them and this is seemingly not a problem for you? That you don’t understand how viruses spread? That these people are not of any health threat to Americans, even those who can’t get a vaccine for medical reasons? Now let’s add in Afghanistan refuges to the mix and I’m sure nothing can go wrong from that. Please. Two wrongs don’t make a right or in this case hundreds of thousands of wrongs....

But hey let’s just continue to cherry pick and choose certain people (unvaxxed) to place blame spreading the virus because it’s the easy target, right? Just sweep it (border crisis) under the rug as status quo as it if has no part in spreading this crap. No thanks.

I don’t see what is so hard to understand the logic that flooding the nation with COVID infected illegal immigrants DOES NOT help slow or stop the spread of a pandemic virus. It is not rocket science to understand how easily that can create “super spreaders” as the MSM loves to call a certain demographic of people. I don’t care if it’s 50 or 500,000...why add insult to injury in the middle of a pandemic? Americans have their choice to get the vaccine because that’s their right as Americans. If you’re not of this country then perhaps now isn’t the best time to enter this country. As you can see across the nation, hospitals are becoming overrun and it just doesn’t make a bit of sense to add an influx of undocumented people into our country who are carrying not only this virus but a mix of all sorts of other issues and diseases within.

 

[tabbibus]

FDA approved. Now what's the next excuse?

 

[BigN8]

On a side note, I think the US has a real dilemma with a shortage of healthcare workers and the real cause for this is not what people think it is. We are in that college phase with our kids, so we hear about their friends and our friends kids college trials and tribulations. It's amazing to hear how much of a challenge all these young folks are having trying to get into nursing school. Some of these kids are smart, and got good grades, but yet are sitting idle working as a waitress while they wait to keep applying for nursing school. I don't know if nursing school is just that picky, or there is not enough nursing school classes to support all these kids?? But it baffles me to hear about the shortage of healthcare workers and yet I personally know of a handful of kids that are dying to get into nursing school.

 

[adrianp89]

On a side note, I think the US has a real dilemma with a shortage of healthcare workers and the real cause for this is not what people think it is. We are in that college phase with our kids, so we hear about their friends and our friends kids college trials and tribulations. It's amazing to hear how much of a challenge all these young folks are having trying to get into nursing school. Some of these kids are smart, and got good grades, but yet are sitting idle working as a waitress while they wait to keep applying for nursing school. I don't know if nursing school is just that picky, or there is not enough nursing school classes to support all these kids?? But it baffles me to hear about the shortage of healthcare workers and yet I personally know of a handful of kids that are dying to get into nursing school.

I think it might be just your general area/perception. From my end, there is a community college campus right down the street pretty much only for nursing..... I know a lot of people that have gotten in....though some I probably wouldn't trust getting my doses correctly lol

 

[Julian]

Yes because they spread the diseases just like the big bad non vaccinated and vaccinated people. You do realize these hundreds of thousands ahem asylum seekers are being distributed across the nation right? It would not surprise me the number is now in the millions instead of hundreds of thousands pouring in. Considering Delta variant spreads a crapload more than other variants, yes this is just as important. I mean if we are talking about unvaxxed people stressing the hospitals where do you think illegal aliens will go when they need help? Should we turn those people away as easily as turning away or prioritizing unvaccinated US citizens is being discussed here too? Even if they don’t go to the hospitals they’re still in our local communities causing community spread and hot spots which in turns of course just further exasperates the strain on their respective local hospitals. They should have been turned around at the border but nope they (government) don’t truly care about stopping a pandemic. It’s only for publicity, power and politics.

If they truly cared about the health of Americans the border would be closed and there would be international travel restrictions. But alas here we are, in the middle of a pandemic, migrants are walking in without issue carrying lord knows what on them and this is seemingly not a problem for you? That you don’t understand how viruses spread? That these people are not of any health threat to Americans, even those who can’t get a vaccine for medical reasons? Now let’s add in Afghanistan refuges to the mix and I’m sure nothing can go wrong from that. Please. Two wrongs don’t make a right or in this case hundreds of thousands of wrongs....

But hey let’s just continue to cherry pick and choose certain people (unvaxxed) to place blame spreading the virus because it’s the easy target, right? Just sweep it (border crisis) under the rug as status quo as it if has no part in spreading this crap. No thanks.

I don’t see what is so hard to understand the logic that flooding the nation with COVID infected illegal immigrants DOES NOT help slow or stop the spread of a pandemic virus. It is not rocket science to understand how easily that can create “super spreaders” as the MSM loves to call a certain demographic of people. I don’t care if it’s 50 or 500,000...why add insult to injury in the middle of a pandemic? Americans have their choice to get the vaccine because that’s their right as Americans. If you’re not of this country then perhaps now isn’t the best time to enter this country. As you can see across the nation, hospitals are becoming overrun and it just doesn’t make a bit of sense to add an influx of undocumented people into our country who are carrying not only this virus but a mix of all sorts of other issues and diseases within.

So your position is that because 1 million immigrants arrive in the US every year, there is no point in getting vaccinated? You do realize we have 328 million people in the country...yes? And 189 million people have had at least one vaccine dose. That leaves 139 million people still unvaccinated. So you are saying that because we are adding .7% (3/4 of one percent) to the total unvaccinated count, we can't contain the disease. Last week we had a couple of days where we vaccinated a million people in one day. Now, I would have ZERO problem saying to the 77% of those immigrants who enter legally - that a provision of entry is you must be vaccinated. There are plenty of countries saying to tourists - to enter you must be vaccinated.

But I am still confused how immigration plays a major role in this discussion. A tiny fraction of the problem - yes. Seems to me you have a bigger anti immigration platform than you do a solid Covid argument.

 

[BigN8]

Thankfully 1 million people a day are now getting vaccinated!! The numbers are unassailable....it really is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

As for masks, the R0 is an important measure. Below is a link the what this means:

What Is R0? Gauging Contagious Infections

R0 indicates how contagious a disease is. Learn how it works and the R0 values for various diseases.

www.healthline.com

The reproductive number, R0 (pronounced R naught), is a value that describes how contagious a disease is. For the flu, the R0 tends to be between 1 and 2, which means that for every person infected with the flu, one to two additional people become infected. For COVID-19, the R0 is higher, between 2 and 3. That is 50-100% higher. So it doesn't surprise me that flu is knocked down faster and more effectively by our containment measures than covid.

There will be other factors that I've not researched like the incubation period. Is it longer for covid? If yes, people will walk around spreading it more. What is the onset like? Do you get sick quickly or not? Does hand washing kill flu easier than covid? Lots to learn.

But clearly what we did to contain covid worked really well on the flu!

How can you say the open border crisis is not an issue with unvaccinated, when 2 pages ago you talked about the R0 factor and this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated? Kinda hypocritical, no? What's the math look like on an R0=3 with the amount of undocumented, untested, unvaccinated people filtering into the country? And they aren't filtering into your state in NC! They are here in TX first. If you don't think it's a concern for this state your crazy.

 

[Julian]

On a side note, I think the US has a real dilemma with a shortage of healthcare workers and the real cause for this is not what people think it is. We are in that college phase with our kids, so we hear about their friends and our friends kids college trials and tribulations. It's amazing to hear how much of a challenge all these young folks are having trying to get into nursing school. Some of these kids are smart, and got good grades, but yet are sitting idle working as a waitress while they wait to keep applying for nursing school. I don't know if nursing school is just that picky, or there is not enough nursing school classes to support all these kids?? But it baffles me to hear about the shortage of healthcare workers and yet I personally know of a handful of kids that are dying to get into nursing school.

There was a shortage of healthcare workers BEFORE the pandemic. The pandemic has only made it worse with more older nurses retiring early. Yes, there may be a small impact with a slow down of training new nurses, but thats not the primary reason for the shortage.

Pandemic has made shortage of health care workers even worse, say experts

The COVID-19 pandemic has exacerbated the ongoing shortage of health workers, leaving many facilities short-staffed even as coronavirus cases plummet nationwide.

abcnews.go.com