The Vaccine

[BigN8]

Was with my independent sales rep yesterday. He and his family have not and don't plan to get vaccinated. I didn't press him why, but he sites this whole foreign, untested substance he will not put into his body talk. Shortly after he takes a hit off a THC vap pen. I'm just thinking to myself....do you have any idea what kind of crap is in that vap pen that you constantly subject your lungs to??? Now he's on a mission to score as much Ivermectin as he can because he firmly believes it will cure him or his family if they contract Covid.

 

[BigN8]

No shit, not 15 minutes after I typed this post, the sales rep mentioned above just called me and told me he tested positive for Covid.

 

[tabbibus]

No shit, not 15 minutes after I typed this post, the sales rep mentioned above just called me and told me he tested positive for Covid.

Wow. Can't make this up huh. Tell him to put some ivermectin extract into the vape

Intubated 2 today. One more likely later today. These will most likely not make it.

This is the last thing these folks will see

 

[AZMark]

No shit, not 15 minutes after I typed this post, the sales rep mentioned above just called me and told me he tested positive for Covid.

That is too bad despite his inconsistency in limiting what he puts in his body. Hopefully it’s mild.

I have a number of friends with the same mindset and behavior and more and more keep getting it, and unfortunately exposing me to it. Those “hey man…” calls are starting to piss me off since I have a 9 month old I’m trying to not expose while actually living my life. It seems like this new surge/variant may eventually get everyone.

I’m curious how much is the higher contagiousness of delta vs masks & social distancing being more effective than the naysayers will ever admit.

 

[BigN8]

Wow. Can't make this up huh. Tell him to put some ivermectin extract into the vape

Intubated 2 today. One more likely later today. These will most likely not make it.

This is the last thing these folks will see

View attachment 160844

He told me his Dr. prescribed him Ivermectin. I guess this is the thing to take now??

 

[tabbibus]

He told me his Dr. prescribed him Ivermectin. I guess this is the thing to take now??

Nope. Won't do him any good. But I've seen many of my ICU patients prescribed that before they came to us.

He may qualify for Regeneron tho. That does work some.

 

[seanmclean]

I didn't think the FDA had recommended booster shots yet (the news was saying perhaps will be approved today (8/18) - for 8 months from your last shot)

Was approved for immunocompromised and some high-risk (ie cancer patients) groups last week.

With this info, and @Jim_in_Delaware info....I have some non-combative, genuine curiosity questions.

Do you think it's a fair assessment to be concerned about emergency approval and NOT having full use FDA approval?
Are the people that are NOT getting the vaccine, that cite lack of full FDA approval justified in their concern?
Can you shed any light into the difference between an emergency approval and a "full" approval?
What, if anything, will change between an emergency approval and a "full" approval (or is an approval an approval regardless of naming convention?)?

Thanks for sharing. This level of "from the horses mouth" type information is more valuable (IMO) than any amount of reading I can do online.

I think there was a very mild justification to be had for being leery of an EUA versus a full approval when they were first rolled out, especially if you were in the previous category of "probably won't even know I had it" - AKA, young and otherwise healthy. Now that there are hundreds of millions of doses out in the wild with very few safety reports, and Delta changing the narrative on who is low risk and who isn't - I think only a fool would pass up vaccination using that as their rationale.

I don't deal too much in EUAs professionally, though I have supported several products that received breakthrough designation and accelerated approvals. The difference in those latter exceptions is generally the size of the study and the level of unmet medical need. You still need to provide the same clinical and manufacturing data that you would for a 'full' approval, but on a smaller scale. EUA is in that same vein, and EUAs come with a whole host of post-authorization requirements including additional studies, longer follow-up, and high intensity monitoring of the initial trial participants. When the benefit is very high, and the risk is very low, especially considering the broader public health benefits, an EUA was the way to go. Even a fast tracked accelerated approval generally takes about six months from the completion of studies and producing the application (which is a massive undertaking).

I don't think anything will outwardly change once the full approval is conferred. The excuses will change "was too fast for full approval, big pharma put their thumb on the scale!", etc. I think it will be easier for some organizations, especially public ones, to mandate vaccinations - but that's about it. The EUA has been out for what - 9/10ish months, hundreds of millions have been vaccinated - and the current data stands for itself. It works, and its safe. Just go get it so we don't have to meet our man Tabbibus in his spacesuit.

 

[2kwik4u]

@seanmclean Thanks for the insight and information. I appreciate the efforts here.

 

[rad1026]

Why did I get vaccinated? Welcome to New Mexico.

Mask mandates back in effect for everyone, vaccinated or not, beginning Friday.

 

[Julian]

Why did I get vaccinated? Welcome to New Mexico.

Mask mandates back in effect for everyone, vaccinated or not, beginning Friday.

So that if you get this Delta variant you don't get to meet someone like @tabbibus

 

[rad1026]

I haven't really read through this whole thread. I just can't believe a cloth mask really has any effect on the rate of spread. What does it really do? I can see it bringing down particulates faster then without a mask, but what effect does that really have? I'm not a conspiracy person. I want to read the science that says a cloth mask does any good.

 

[Julian]

I haven't really read through this whole thread. I just can't believe a cloth mask really has any effect on the rate of spread. What does it really do? I can see it bringing down particulates faster then without a mask, but what effect does that really have? I'm not a conspiracy person. I want to read the science that says a cloth mask does any good.

Cloth masks reduce the spread by roughly 20%...we should want any reduction we can achieve! Also, kn95 masks are available now....they are 95% effective....I wear those now as this reduces the spread far more, plus I find they are easier to breath in as they have more form to them.

 

[AZMark]

I haven't really read through this whole thread. I just can't believe a cloth mask really has any effect on the rate of spread. What does it really do? I can see it bringing down particulates faster then without a mask, but what effect does that really have? I'm not a conspiracy person. I want to read the science that says a cloth mask does any good.

Sneeze, and then sneeze with a piece of cloth over your face and see how far each travels.

If your assumption/scenario is that individual virus particles are already filling the room you’re in and penetrating the mask, then yes it of course has little effect depending on how porous the fabric is.

There is no reason for anyone to be using a homemade or other general cloth mask at this point. Better masks are available everywhere.

In any event it’s a system and depends on everyone in an area wearing them.

 

[Wake_Dude]

I welcome back the mask mandate. It sure worked wonders on the Flu. Lowest cases in history:

Weekly US Map: Influenza Summary Update

A Weekly Influenza Surveillance Report Prepared by the Influenza Division

www.cdc.gov

Kinda strange how it didn't do shit for Covid though........ Can't say people weren't wearing them (see above).

 

[2kwik4u]

In any event it’s a system and depends on everyone in an area wearing them.

Procedural Control.

When I was doing safety analysis for NASA a few years back we had several methods of controls. One was a physical control, this is like a latch that must be moved, or needing a tool to remove a panel. Things behind that latch or panel were physically controlled in a safe condition. There were also procedural controls, these were done with particular set of rules, or tasks that when done in order made the action safe. This is like putting a specimen inside a glove box before opening it, or not turning a system on until you were in the other room. Something along those lines.

Everyone wearing a mask is the same premise as driving on the right hand side of the road. If we all agreed on it, and we all did it, we're all safe. We've agreed to that procedure, and everyone stays safe. When one person drives on the wrong side, it causes all kinds of chaos and problems. Masks are EXACTLY the same, if everyone does it, for the greater good, they work well. Without full adoption, the effectiveness is severely limited. Like the premise of a "zipper merge" when two lanes of traffic meet. It works great, but some people just can't get onboard with the idea, don't know about it, or otherwise don't care, and the merge goes to chaos.

Procedural controls are all around us. Some codified, others unspoken but known. Sure would be nice if we could agree on this one eh?

 

[tabbibus]

Boosters now recommended for all. Not just immunosuppressed. 8 months after first round.

I'm down. Give me more 5G!

 

[Robconn]

I don’t think that is a fair, unbiased, statement to say masks weren’t effective against covid. I never witnessed a high degree of compliance with masks throughout the entire pandemic with alpha through delta. Please consider your hospitals. With the sickest of patients afflicted with covid, safety protocols were established. Certain medical interventions were implemented in order to decrease the amount of aerosolization of viral particles / contagion. Please consider the high mortality rate among the Italian healthcare system as they were the first to deal with covid. The U.S. learned key lessons treating covid while maintaining and protecting Healthcare personnel. Mask are not 100% effective. However, as I work in close proximity to the sickest on a daily basis since the beginning I have yet to test positive for antibodies. I do not claim to have extraordinary resistance either. I realize for me it’s a matter of when. A simple mask will diminish the amount of exposure. I make every effort to use my PPE at work and in public. Another facet to consider, at my facility there have been no reports of non covid patient getting covid from staff. We have several departments that treat both populations each shift. All staff is required to use PPE with all patients. If mask did nothing to prevent or lower occurrence of covid you would see a much higher rate attrition of healthcare workers. Not picking a fight but post like that certainly are worthy of a counter response.
Please refer to post #1884 of the coronavirus thread. That was 9/20 and what I wrote then is still true today.

 

[Wake_Dude]

Size of influenza virus 80-120 nm:

Size distribution analysis of influenza virus particles using size exclusion chromatography

Size exclusion chromatography is a standard method in quality control of biopharmaceutical proteins. In contrast, vaccine analysis is often based on a…

www.sciencedirect.com

Size of Coronaviruses ~120 nm:

Coronavirus | Definition, Features, & Examples

Coronavirus, any virus belonging to the family Coronaviridae. Coronaviruses have enveloped virions that measure approximately 120 nm in diameter. The genome consists of a single strand of positive-sense RNA (ribonucleic acid). Examples of coronaviruses include the agents that cause SARS, MERS...

www.britannica.com

 

[Wake_Dude]

I don’t think that is a fair, unbiased, statement to say masks weren’t effective against covid. I never witnessed a high degree of compliance with masks throughout the entire pandemic with alpha through delta. Please consider your hospitals. With the sickest of patients afflicted with covid, safety protocols were established. Certain medical interventions were implemented in order to decrease the amount of aerosolization of viral particles / contagion. Please consider the high mortality rate among the Italian healthcare system as they were the first to deal with covid. The U.S. learned key lessons treating covid while maintaining and protecting Healthcare personnel. Mask are not 100% effective. However, as I work in close proximity to the sickest on a daily basis since the beginning I have yet to test positive for antibodies. I do not claim to have extraordinary resistance either. I realize for me it’s a matter of when. A simple mask will diminish the amount of exposure. I make every effort to use my PPE at work and in public. Another facet to consider, at my facility there have been no reports of non covid patient getting covid from staff. We have several departments that treat both populations each shift. All staff is required to use PPE with all patients. If mask did nothing to prevent or lower occurrence of covid you would see a much higher rate attrition of healthcare workers. Not picking a fight but post like that certainly are worthy of a counter response.
Please refer to post #1884 of the coronavirus thread. That was 9/20 and what I wrote then is still true today.

If you never witnessed high compliance with masks (I'm assuming in pulblic), how do you explain the record low Flu numbers? Just by chance? No, I don't think so.

Look, I'm not trying to be a dick. I tend to stay out of these arguments. And, I mean no offense, but my observations are far different than yours and some of the others on this forum. Oh, and BTW, I'm vaccinated!!!!!!! Ooooohhhh. Now what? LOL BTW, I have two careers: I own a machine shop, and I am a critical resource RN (that means I work everywhere in the hospital), ICU, ER, Covid floor, Med/Surg, and supervise. Just sayin..........

 

[Robconn]

If you never witnessed high compliance with masks (I'm assuming in pulblic), how do you explain the record low Flu numbers? Just by chance? No, I don't think so.

Look, I'm not trying to be a dick. I tend to stay out of these arguments. And, I mean no offense, but my observations are far different than yours and some of the others on this forum. Oh, and BTW, I'm vaccinated!!!!!!! Ooooohhhh. Now what? LOL BTW, I have two careers: I own a machine shop, and I am a critical resource RN (that means I work everywhere in the hospital), ICU, ER, Covid floor, Med/Surg, and supervise. Just sayin..........

Sounds like you took offense my post. I work primarily in the ED. I’m more of a dinosaur since I have been working in healthcare since last century. I do not claim to know more and I won’t posture and flex. I don’t look for pissing contest either.