2021 Yamaha 275SD engine died - thoughts?

[GTBRMC]

If anyone gets this fixed for me it’s more than a bottle! The repair is $20k. All I want is the boat fixed even if I pay so I can get back on the water. I cannot believe that a company as good as Yamaha is leaving situation like this dangling. I literally cannot get through to them. The manager of The dealer finally spoke with someone there and is trying to accelerate the parts. But I guess them covering it is off the table. Bad karma for them. If I ran my business this way I would get a bad reputation. I do have access to good lawyers and if I miss the summer I will go for “lemon” approach. In the meanwhile hopefully they get me back on the water. The longer the repair delayed the more upset I am getting. Boat defect and no parts to fix it even if a customer willing to pay. That’s called a “no boat trap”.

As has been mentioned a couple of times, the shaft failure looks like a metallurgical issue - a seam in the bar used to produce it, improper heat treat, or similar. A qualified metallurgical analysis will likely show what the issue / failure mode was. This would be done through a standard physical examination of the parts (the piece that broke off would be FAR easier to examine in a lab - obviously). The analysis would likely be definitive. Assuming it is a metallurgical problem, such an analysis would clearly show defect(s) in material and/or workmanship. Such analyses are done all of the time and frequently are used as evidence in court.

The facts reside in the metal pieces. And your best bet to get a favorable resolution, IMO, is to demonstrate to Yamaha factual evidence of material and/or workmanship defect. Good luck.

 

[swatski]

As has been mentioned a couple of times, the shaft failure looks like a metallurgical issue - a seam in the bar used to produce it, improper heat treat, or similar. A qualified metallurgical analysis will likely show what the issue / failure mode was. This would be done through a standard physical examination of the parts (the piece that broke off would be FAR easier to examine in a lab - obviously). The analysis would likely be definitive. Assuming it is a metallurgical problem, such an analysis would clearly show defect(s) in material and/or workmanship. Such analyses are done all of the time and frequently are used as evidence in court.

The facts reside in the metal pieces. And your best bet to get a favorable resolution, IMO, is to demonstrate to Yamaha factual evidence of material and/or workmanship defect. Good luck.

I have said it before - the above scenario would likely work well in the context of a small claims court or similar (a non-starter with 20k at stake).
Provided your analysis is correct and backed up by an expert assessment - illustrated with pics and charts and clearly presented to a judge - the onus would be on Yamaha to refute such compelling evidence. They could use their own experts, but no lawyers. The playing field being leveled!

If it is goes before a regular court however, it's a non-starter. I wouldn't even go there. OP's lawyer friends will explain this to him. Yamaha holds all the cards, the OP has got nothing from them, and will get nothing from them on any technical aspects of what broke, or didn't, they hold metalurgic analyses and data as trade secrets and have any and all expert witness types on hand to argue whatever they please.
They will show with three expert witnesses to every one the OP decides to pay for.
Real life Don Quichotte, lol, unless it is a class action, and someone died, that changes everything.

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[Beachbummer]

I know someone that prevailed in a similar situation against Mazda with an RX-7 going to full real court. It's not economically viable but he did it anyway. 18 months total time.

 

[swatski]

I know someone that prevailed in a similar situation against Mazda with an RX-7 going to full real court. It's not economically viable but he did it anyway. 18 months total time.

That's not a very good comparison, I'm afraid.
Yamaha makes dangerous toys for a living, if we are not counting their music division which is totally separate, and they know it. They make thousands of models of things that can fall apart and/or injure people, unlike Mazda which, TTBOMK, makes just very reliable cars - a well regulated industry.
Yamaha is prepared.

 

[Beachbummer]

That's a fair point.

 

[GTBRMC]

I have said it before - the above scenario would likely work well in the context of a small claims court or similar (a non-starter with 20k at stake).
Provided your analysis is correct and backed up by an expert assessment - illustrated with pics and charts and clearly presented to a judge - the onus would be on Yamaha to refute such compelling evidence. They could use their own experts, but no lawyers. The playing field being leveled!

If it is goes before a regular court however, it's a non-starter. I wouldn't even go there. OP's lawyer friends will explain this to him. Yamaha holds all the cards, the OP has got nothing from them, and will get nothing from them on any technical aspects of what broke, or didn't, they hold metalurgic analyses and data as trade secrets and have any and all expert witness types on hand to argue whatever they please.
They will show with three expert witnesses to every one the OP decides to pay for.
Real life Don Quichotte, lol, unless it is a class action, and someone died, that changes everything.

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I have to disagree.

OP likely has some resources or a six figure boat purchase would not have happened. A vehicle manufacturer potentially has a lot to lose in significant negative publicity over such a case. An aggressive legal approach on top of supportive metallurgical facts (the key) can be very convincing. The idea is not to go to trial, but to drive to a favorable settlement without going to court.

Note, I am not taking a position on whether OP or Yamaha or both or some other party is at fault here. I have no idea. I am saying simple, widely recognized met lab analysis provides a factual basis for discussion. If the material is faulty, it will probably be obvious.

PS: I have direct experience in this area, and forced one of the world's largest insurance carriers (almost everyone here would recognize their name) to double a settlement offer for my company over a faulty heat treat that ruined my company's product and cost my company's customer a very large amount of money. All involved lawyered up and straightforward metallurgical analysis was the key to forcing the settlement. Think $millions.

Note I was GM of the business, I am not an attorney, my company's legal team was fully engaged with outside counsel assisting, and this was more than 10 years ago. I am not a metallurgist nor a metallurgical engineer, but I do have a BSME and have been in metals industries for over 25 years.

 

[marcham]

Except that in this case, the drive shaft may not be the root cause, only the symptom. If indeed the engine was misaligned or some other component was out of spec causing torsion, vibrations or harmonics which caused the metal to fatigue and fail, then the metal analysis will not be able to identify the root cause.

 

[Bluewater272]

Depending on the state, Yamaha might bring their lawyer goons to small claims court, too. OP just needs to decide whether he's in it for the long haul to repair it on their dime (or his), or if money is truly no object, go buy yourself a low hour SVHO ski and swap out the drivetrain. Fix the old stuff on your own time and you'll have a boat and a ski. *shrug*

 

[Julian]

I have to disagree.

OP likely has some resources or a six figure boat purchase would not have happened. A vehicle manufacturer potentially has a lot to lose in significant negative publicity over such a case. An aggressive legal approach on top of supportive metallurgical facts (the key) can be very convincing. The idea is not to go to trial, but to drive to a favorable settlement without going to court.

Note, I am not taking a position on whether OP or Yamaha or both or some other party is at fault here. I have no idea. I am saying simple, widely recognized met lab analysis provides a factual basis for discussion. If the material is faulty, it will probably be obvious.

PS: I have direct experience in this area, and forced one of the world's largest insurance carriers (almost everyone here would recognize their name) to double a settlement offer for my company over a faulty heat treat that ruined my company's product and cost my company's customer a very large amount of money. All involved lawyered up and straightforward metallurgical analysis was the key to forcing the settlement. Think $millions.

Note I was GM of the business, I am not an attorney, my company's legal team was fully engaged with outside counsel assisting, and this was more than 10 years ago. I am not a metallurgist nor a metallurgical engineer, but I do have a BSME and have been in metals industries for over 25 years.

This is what I would do. With at least 3 cases if shafts sheering and this one the only one they won't cover....why? Because it also damaged the engine in the process. Bullshit. No way I'd sit back and get screwed like this.

 

[the MfM]

IDK that nick in the impeller...probably caused by duckweed. That chit will take out a driveshaft/engine before you can blink twice.

Amirite @Yamaha ?!?

 

[swatski]

I have to disagree.

OP likely has some resources or a six figure boat purchase would not have happened. A vehicle manufacturer potentially has a lot to lose in significant negative publicity over such a case. An aggressive legal approach on top of supportive metallurgical facts (the key) can be very convincing. The idea is not to go to trial, but to drive to a favorable settlement without going to court.

Note, I am not taking a position on whether OP or Yamaha or both or some other party is at fault here. I have no idea. I am saying simple, widely recognized met lab analysis provides a factual basis for discussion. If the material is faulty, it will probably be obvious.

PS: I have direct experience in this area, and forced one of the world's largest insurance carriers (almost everyone here would recognize their name) to double a settlement offer for my company over a faulty heat treat that ruined my company's product and cost my company's customer a very large amount of money. All involved lawyered up and straightforward metallurgical analysis was the key to forcing the settlement. Think $millions.

Note I was GM of the business, I am not an attorney, my company's legal team was fully engaged with outside counsel assisting, and this was more than 10 years ago. I am not a metallurgist nor a metallurgical engineer, but I do have a BSME and have been in metals industries for over 25 years.

I totally get it; no doubt in my mind you are correct. What I'm saying is they probably have him over a barrel.

20k is a funny thing. It's a lot of money. It's also not a lot of money.

By the time all things are considered, fix it vs lawyer up, it's a tough call.

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[Julian]

I totally get it; no doubt in my mind you are correct. What I'm saying is they probably have him over a barrel.

20k is a funny thing. It's a lot of money. It's also not a lot of money.

By the time all things are considered, fix it vs lawyer up, it's a tough call.

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A nice letter from a lawyer and metallurgical analysis that says flaw in shaft (if they can make that statement) might be enough to get them to avoid the publicity issue.

The next step being a social media campaign with the same information....not worth the bad press. Heck....I still think about crooked Parker cabins when I hear that boat name!

Yamaha doesn't invite Jetboaters.net to their media release events anymore because we don't quash things like this. They'd be far better off doing the right thing and covering it. We sell tons of boats for them BECAUSE of the freedom to give our opinions and all the content on the good things they build.

Professional approach is what I'd take.

 

[the MfM]

If you want to go the full social media route you’ll need to post a thread on thehulltruth.com next. Be sure to post a link here

 

[swatski]

A nice letter from a lawyer and metallurgical analysis that says flaw in shaft (if they can make that statement) might be enough to get them to avoid the publicity issue.

The next step being a social media campaign with the same information....not worth the bad press. Heck....I still think about crooked Parker cabins when I hear that boat name!

Yamaha doesn't invite Jetboaters.net to their media release events anymore because we don't quash things like this. They'd be far better off doing the right thing and covering it. We sell tons of boats for them BECAUSE of the freedom to give our opinions and all the content on the good things they build.

Professional approach is what I'd take.

I would like it to work like that! You guys have been amazing and Yamaha truly does not deserve you!

I would give it a try. But I'm afraid they don't give rat's a$$ about publicity especially right now when they can't make enough boats to sell and many manufacturers make quality shortcuts worse yet.

I still think about crooked Parker cabins when I hear that boat name!

That was different, and if you wanted a pilothouse boat, you would still consider Parker, and you would be right to do so.
Everyone could see right through the crooked guy bull$hit, and Parker response left him look pretty bad. To that point - want to purchase a new Parker right now? need to get on the waiting list for 2023.

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[the MfM]

Parker offered to fix the crooked boat. The guy wanted more and in the end got nothing.

but @Yamaha is refusing to fix @BGN123 ‘s boat under warranty while covering the repairs for others.

 

[swatski]

Parker offered to fix the crooked boat. The guy wanted more and in the end got nothing.

yes, pretty much.

but @Yamaha is refusing to fix @BGN123 ‘s boat under warranty while covering the repairs for others.

Who else had the same situation? I'm not aware.
I know there were a couple of snapped shafts, handled by Yamaha.

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[the MfM]

yes, pretty much.


Who else had the same situation? I'm not aware.
I know there were a couple of snapped shafts, handled by Yamaha.

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I believe @BGN123 said he talked to another dealer who had a boat in the same condition. It was being covered under warranty pending parts availability. Maybe it was just the driveshaft and not an engine?

 

[swatski]

I believe @BGN123 said he talked to another dealer who had a boat in the same condition. It was being covered under warranty pending parts availability. Maybe it was just the driveshaft and not an engine?

Look, I sympathize with the OP, I might have done the same.

Waiting for Yamaha inspectors does not guarantee a problem is going to be fixed promptly and covered under warranty.

But.

Not waiting and not letting Yamaha do whatever that is they would want to do is practically equivalent to waiving warranty rights for coverage of that issue.

Okay. Service center called. They said they called Yamaha to check warranty and it is a warranty issue. But they said it’s also a safety issue and want to send inspectors from Yamaha to look at the boat to see if anything else wrong before fixing and getting back on the water. They said that at the speed everything spins “it” (not sure what “it” is...the impeller?) could punch through the hull. This is VERY disappointing because it means I’m off the water for at least a month I guess and that my boat is not trustworthy? A high speed metal part might punch through the hull? WTF? The service center said he can just fix it if I want but neither he nor Yamaha would recommend. Advice? Not excited about a month off the water.

I like that “lawn ornament”. I just told the local place to fix it. Forget the “inspectors”. If it happens again maybe I will scuttle the boat whatever scuttle means! Thanks for all the comments.

I’m having it fixed out of pocket. Not willing to wait. I can get it back by next weekend. And there are no boats around in Florida! Still a boat shortage.

Boat is fixed and back at the marina. Easy peasey. Now trying to submit repair bill and see what happens. Hopefully Yamaha covers if not I understand because Indidnt follow their advice but was not willing to kiss my boat goodbye for an indefinite period of time. But if they don’t it’s a good warning about this model boat right?

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[the MfM]

Yeah he is not without blame for not following the warranty process.

But I’m assuming the engine was likely damaged before he had them repair the driveshaft. And I’d expect a certified @Yamaha tech would have been able to repair and ensure everything was in spec. Regardless of who was paying the bill.

 

[YamFSH210]

Large Company like Yamaha will have multiple levels of escalation to go thorough before paying any warranty . The Best recourse is to use all avenues of Social Media to let everyone know you have an issue and it is not being handled to your satisfaction . Park the Boat near the interstate with a large " LEMON " sign for everyone to see. Hold all your paperwork and see if any other have similar issues , maybe if it is a design flaw it will come to light .