255xd Neutral Steering Assist

[MattJL]

Thanks. 252SD has similar software settings. Once weather improves here in Seattle, I'll try a couple different options to see which works best.

 

[TommyMcK]

Although Neutral Steering Assist was the title of this thread, it isn't related to the issue of reversed controls while in neutral. Turning this setting off does not change the fundament issue that neutral isn't actually neutral (on some boats at least...maybe it's an adjustment issue from the factory). With the wheel centered and the boat in neutral, it will very slowly inch back. Not a ton, and depending on current, you may not even be moving, but there is enough torque on the stern to cause the boat to rotate when you turn the wheel. It's so effective in fact that I can't see why you'd ever need to use the spin mode.

As an aside, even with neutral steering assist on, I don't see a change in engine RPM that is a function of steering input or boat speed through the water while in neutral. They don't say what the "gain" or RPM increase or boat speed range is in an absolute sense is, so maybe it's too subtle to notice while just going a few miles an hour. I don't notice a change in behavior anyway with the setting on or off. I haven't really tried to chop the throttle to neutral while underway at some non trivial speed, so maybe it's more of a safety thing when you want to avoid something but you want to limit your forward motion.

 

[TommyMcK]

Although Neutral Steering Assist was the title of this thread, it isn't related to the issue of reversed controls while in neutral. Turning this setting off does not change the fundament issue that neutral isn't actually neutral (on some boats at least...maybe it's an adjustment issue from the factory). With the wheel centered and the boat in neutral, it will very slowly inch back. Not a ton, and depending on current, you may not even be moving, but there is enough torque on the stern to cause the boat to rotate when you turn the wheel. It's so effective in fact that I can't see why you'd ever need to use the spin mode.

As an aside, even with neutral steering assist on, I don't see a change in engine RPM that is a function of steering input or boat speed through the water while in neutral. They don't say what the "gain" or RPM increase or boat speed range is in an absolute sense is, so maybe it's too subtle to notice while just going a few miles an hour. I don't notice a change in behavior anyway with the setting on or off. I haven't really tried to chop the throttle to neutral while underway at some non trivial speed, so maybe it's more of a safety thing when you want to avoid something but you want to limit your forward motion.

So, the mystery continues. It is bizarrely coincidental given I was just responding to this thread yesterday, but today we had guests over and took the 255XD to a local restaurant on the water. The wind and current were fairly significant (gusting quartering tailwind up to 20 knots but an incoming quartering current off the nose from the opposite side). I continue to be more impressed as time goes on with dock assist in these conditions, but I had nearly full-scale paddle and steering deflections with max side thrust as I maneuvered sideways into a space that was about 6' longer than the length of the boat. During this time, controls were reversed as is typical on my boat when you let go of the paddles. So I was doing my normal wheel reversal when I let go of the paddles. So far, just a typical day, even though conditions weren't ideal.

When I got back to my dock, something seemed very "wrong". Took a minute to figure out, but for whatever reason, neutral was really neutral. The boat was moving with the current in neutral and wheel position didn't do anything (as would be normally expected with no thrust) to push the stern. I shut down a couple of times and re-started, left the dock and came back, and sure enough, it is now "fixed". Ironically, I now need to re-program myself. We'll see if this holds...

 

[drewkaree]

This attachment describes how the Neutral Steering Assist is supposed to work on a 255FSH

My neighbor was making fun of me yesterday for being a RTFM guy when trying to diagnose what happened to my car on Friday. If I see him later, there's no way I'm not showing him your post

I dunno if that addresses the issue fully, but the steering system "improvements" that are being developed seem to be confusing the normal thought process, or at least require changing the typical process, often at a time where it may least be wanted, and cause issues.

Buddy cracked his boat last weekend, most likely due to the DRIVE system, and it not working as expected, based on the "normal" operations. These forums are great for discovering things about our boats, but the manuals are also treasure troves as well.

Stuff like this is why people should test their boats, BEFORE adding any steering enhancements, as those may also enhance their issues, if they're unaware of the way the boat will operate in stock condition

 

[drewkaree]

So, the mystery continues. It is bizarrely coincidental given I was just responding to this thread yesterday, but today we had guests over and took the 255XD to a local restaurant on the water. The wind and current were fairly significant (gusting quartering tailwind up to 20 knots but an incoming quartering current off the nose from the opposite side). I continue to be more impressed as time goes on with dock assist in these conditions, but I had nearly full-scale paddle and steering deflections with max side thrust as I maneuvered sideways into a space that was about 6' longer than the length of the boat. During this time, controls were reversed as is typical on my boat when you let go of the paddles. So I was doing my normal wheel reversal when I let go of the paddles. So far, just a typical day, even though conditions weren't ideal.

When I got back to my dock, something seemed very "wrong". Took a minute to figure out, but for whatever reason, neutral was really neutral. The boat was moving with the current in neutral and wheel position didn't do anything (as would be normally expected with no thrust) to push the stern. I shut down a couple of times and re-started, left the dock and came back, and sure enough, it is now "fixed". Ironically, I now need to re-program myself. We'll see if this holds...

My buddy with the DRIVE system had this happen to him 3 times last weekend while we were out with him. I wonder how the switches are set up, and if there's a possibility of either contact being lost, or racing, or some electrical design that may introduce gremlins to the system?

Can you access the binnacles to get a look (and some pics) of the setup?

I wonder if this is something that should be adjusted at the 10-hour mark, or if the service manual would have some further information on this?

 

[TommyMcK]

My buddy with the DRIVE system had this happen to him 3 times last weekend while we were out with him. I wonder how the switches are set up, and if there's a possibility of either contact being lost, or racing, or some electrical design that may introduce gremlins to the system?

Can you access the binnacles to get a look (and some pics) of the setup?

I wonder if this is something that should be adjusted at the 10-hour mark, or if the service manual would have some further information on this?

It went back to the way it was originally (slight reverse bias), and hasn't changed since I made that post. I have the service manual, and it has a procedure to adjust the position of the gates for neutral, but it's complicated. Not just a matter of making a mechanical adjustment, but involves using YDS and the procedure was more complicated than having me deal with it the way that it currently is (which isn't that hard so long as it is consistent.) I have yet to contact the dealer. I keep meaning to, but never seem to get around to it.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

This attachment describes how the Neutral Steering Assist is supposed to work on a 255FSH

Were you able to use these settings to turn the neutral assist off?

What is the speed of the boat in idle ahead?

 

[TommyMcK]

Were you able to use these settings to turn the neutral assist off?

I'm interested in TeeNGee's answer, but the only way to check if it is to chop the throttle at well over 10mph and then provide full steering input in either direction. With it on, you feel the engine RPM crank up and you get some steering control while you are coasting. You don't notice it (on vs. off) if you are coasting straight ahead, or are going under 10MPH. The engine RPM increase is determined by the product of steering input and speed through water, and it doesn't kick if under 10mph at any steering input, or at small steering inputs at any speed through the water.

Once I realized that, it was clear that the on/off control really does turn the feature on/off.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I'm interested in TeeNGee's answer, but the only way to check if it is to chop the throttle at well over 10mph and then provide full steering input in either direction. With it on, you feel the engine RPM crank up and you get some steering control while you are coasting. You don't notice it (on vs. off) if you are coasting straight ahead, or are going under 10MPH. The engine RPM increase is determined by the product of steering input and speed through water, and it doesn't kick if under 10mph at any steering input, or at small steering inputs at any speed through the water.

Once I realized that, it was clear that the on/off control really does turn the feature on/off.

Thanks!

So that I am clear, with the neutral assist off, if coasting at 10 mph the engine speed and opposite steering does not happen?

 

[TommyMcK]

Thanks!

So that I am clear, with the neutral assist off, if coasting at 10 mph the engine speed and opposite steering does not happen?

The opposite steering isn't related to neutral steering assist. It's a "feature" of the bucket design, and only is noticeable while stationary (or close to stationary) in neutral. If you give the boat a puff of forward with a steering input, and then go to neutral, you need to provide opposite steering input to maintain the direction that you originally wanted. It's not such a big deal on the fsh boats because it's easy to compensate for it with the joystick. I'd be surprised if you even noticed it if you normally use the joystick while docking.

But yes, if you turn off neutral steering assist and coasting at 10mph with a steering input, engine rpm doesn't increase. Ironically, you don't get opposite steering in the operating regime where neutral steering assist actually has an effect.

 

[AceKicker]

This attachment describes how the Neutral Steering Assist is supposed to work on a 255FSH

I know this is an old discussion, but I played around with some things yesterday on my 2026 252SD.

Comparing my operator's manual with what you posted above, mine does not have the two graphs, but it does mention that neutral steering assist works "if the boat speed is about 10 km/h or more." That's about 6.2 mph. I'm aware that this is not related to the boat steering in an opposite direction at neutral. But something that just occurred to me is that since this is in the XDrive menu, that feature will only work with DriveX on. I don't know of a situation where I'd be faster than 6.2 mph while in DriveX. I'm not sure if FSHs are different with this, but for me, DriveX allows me to use the paddles for forward and reverse, to slide sideways, and to do a pivot turn by turning the helm full deflection. I won't be going fast in any of those situations, so I don't know why neutral steering assist is a feature.

Now, to the weird steering thing. I did a few experiments to add to others' troubleshooting and further narrow down this "glitch." I confirmed that my boat does the same thing mentioned by others above. However, I also noticed that if I split the engines to turn in place, the backwards throttle thing is still happening. For example, if I put the port engine clutch reverse and starboard engine clutch ahead, that will pivot the boat to the left. One would expect steering left would increase the turn rate. However, turning left slows it down and turning the wheel right speeds up the left turn. This could cause problems for someone who is finessing their approach to a dock by splitting the engines while close to the dock, unless you keep your wheel centered. One thing I didn't think to try was putting only one engine forward and leaving the other in neutral. SURELY, that will make the boat act as expected because you'll get forward thrust there for sure, but nothing would surprise me now.

When I go to the slide mode - keep in mind in the non-FSH boats we don't have a joystick, just a left and right button to press - steering acts as you would expect. I played with this at least three times yesterday, and with different angles into our 20 knot wind, to make sure winds weren't affecting my findings. When sliding left and when sliding right, if I turn the wheel right, the nose goes right. When I steer left, the nose goes left. I find it odd that the boat does what I expect there, considering any other time I'm in neutral, and when splitting engines, it does the opposite. And, considering the boat moves slowly aft while sliding left and right. I have to bump the forward paddle occasionally to keep the boat from moving aft. That makes it VERY surprising that the nose steers as if it is moving forward. And the nose was not swinging that way because I bumped forward. I was playing with the nose movement without touching the paddles. I separately noticed that I needed to add forward paddle to not move aft.

 

[TommyMcK]

I know this is an old discussion, but I played around with some things yesterday on my 2026 252SD.

Comparing my operator's manual with what you posted above, mine does not have the two graphs, but it does mention that neutral steering assist works "if the boat speed is about 10 km/h or more." That's about 6.2 mph. I'm aware that this is not related to the boat steering in an opposite direction at neutral. But something that just occurred to me is that since this is in the XDrive menu, that feature will only work with DriveX on. I don't know of a situation where I'd be faster than 6.2 mph while in DriveX. I'm not sure if FSHs are different with this, but for me, DriveX allows me to use the paddles for forward and reverse, to slide sideways, and to do a pivot turn by turning the helm full deflection. I won't be going fast in any of those situations, so I don't know why neutral steering assist is a feature.

Now, to the weird steering thing. I did a few experiments to add to others' troubleshooting and further narrow down this "glitch." I confirmed that my boat does the same thing mentioned by others above. However, I also noticed that if I split the engines to turn in place, the backwards throttle thing is still happening. For example, if I put the port engine clutch reverse and starboard engine clutch ahead, that will pivot the boat to the left. One would expect steering left would increase the turn rate. However, turning left slows it down and turning the wheel right speeds up the left turn. This could cause problems for someone who is finessing their approach to a dock by splitting the engines while close to the dock, unless you keep your wheel centered. One thing I didn't think to try was putting only one engine forward and leaving the other in neutral. SURELY, that will make the boat act as expected because you'll get forward thrust there for sure, but nothing would surprise me now.

When I go to the slide mode - keep in mind in the non-FSH boats we don't have a joystick, just a left and right button to press - steering acts as you would expect. I played with this at least three times yesterday, and with different angles into our 20 knot wind, to make sure winds weren't affecting my findings. When sliding left and when sliding right, if I turn the wheel right, the nose goes right. When I steer left, the nose goes left. I find it odd that the boat does what I expect there, considering any other time I'm in neutral, and when splitting engines, it does the opposite. And, considering the boat moves slowly aft while sliding left and right. I have to bump the forward paddle occasionally to keep the boat from moving aft. That makes it VERY surprising that the nose steers as if it is moving forward. And the nose was not swinging that way because I bumped forward. I was playing with the nose movement without touching the paddles. I separately noticed that I needed to add forward paddle to not move aft.

Hi Ace...

Regarding Neutral Steering Assist, DriveX mode doesn't need to be engaged in order for it to work, regardless of what menu it appears in.

Regarding steering input while using split controls, what you observed is normal, and it's the same for any twin engine boat. Generally speaking, you shouldn't have any steering input when splitting the controls. You can maybe imagine it better if you think about twin outboards with the extreme case of both motors steered 90 degrees in one direction. The two engines would be fighting each other with imparting essentially zero spin about the yaw axis of the boat. Any steering input away from straight ahead will reduce the yaw imparted to the boat from differential thrust.

And yep... Steering input definitely works as expected when using the side thrust buttons (thank goodness). It seems like for whatever reason with the bucket design, the residual thrust associated with idle results in the need for cross control while in neutral.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Hi Ace...

Regarding Neutral Steering Assist, DriveX mode doesn't need to be engaged in order for it to work, regardless of what menu it appears in.

Regarding steering input while using split controls, what you observed is normal, and it's the same for any twin engine boat. Generally speaking, you shouldn't have any steering input when splitting the controls. You can maybe imagine it better if you think about twin outboards with the extreme case of both motors steered 90 degrees in one direction. The two engines would be fighting each other with imparting essentially zero spin about the yaw axis of the boat. Any steering input away from straight ahead will reduce the yaw imparted to the boat from differential thrust.

And yep... Steering input definitely works as expected when using the side thrust buttons (thank goodness). It seems like for whatever reason with the bucket design, the residual thrust associated with idle results in the need for cross control while in neutral.

 

[AceKicker]

Generally speaking, you shouldn't have any steering input when splitting the controls. You can maybe imagine it better if you think about twin outboards with the extreme case of both motors steered 90 degrees in one direction. The two engines would be fighting each other with imparting essentially zero spin about the yaw axis of the boat. Any steering input away from straight ahead will reduce the yaw imparted to the boat from differential thrust.

Great point. You saying this made me have an ephiphany. I "grew up" driving a ship a little over 200' long, but have never owned a small boat before. At first, I thought you're crazy. But after thinking about it, I realized you are right. I brought my bigger ship mentality to my driving, which is why I wanted to steer with the turn. In the bigger ship, we had two screws that do not move with the helm - they are fixed fore to aft. So the best way to pivot about a point to the left was to do port reverse, starboard forward, and left full rudder. But, yeah, with engines that rotate with the helm, that changes everything. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.