Clean Out Port Re-Build <AKA the Moron marina thread!>

[Don Briere]

Sealing the clean out port would work.....Scarabs don't have them. It would reduce the value of your boat (so that small claims court is a good idea no matter what the end result! Who ever did this work should be paying, and hunting for the parts to make it right! This is absolute bullshit! If you want 500 of your best Yamaha experts to testify on your behalf, or join you on a trip to this marina - we'd be happy to help!!!!! What f'ing MORONS!

It is hard to tell from the one image, but it looks like the lower rim is undamaged (where the bottom of the plug sits). So one approach might be to cut a new line up notch, and 2 new dog catch holes. I will say that none of the "fixes" will be great. What I would do is tell the Marina:

1. Order a new pump housing (the part they damaged).
2. Pay for a Yamaha dealer to replace the housing when the part comes in
3. Never touch my boat again!

In the meantime, when you get your new lower plug repair kit, just glue the lower plug portion into the current hole (don't glue the top in too - you can use that later and they are expensive - then you just need to buy one new lower repair kit when you have the swap done).

OK, so that may be an option -- good to know. Thanks for the insights and help -- appreciate the support! These guys are idiots and have been so difficult to deal with since this past fall, it's ridiculous! I'll take your guidance to the welder that I have looking at it and see if that's something he can do. I also think we will need to pursue the small claims either way, so I may take you up on the help!!

 

[Don Briere]

I’ve seen a Yamaha jet boat in which the owner sealed the plugs in place with epoxy. It can be done. I only saw the boat once. At the top of the boat ramp on its trailer with half of a tow line wrapped around the shaft and the other half of the line sticking out of the intake grate. Their day on the water was over as they planned to pull the pump to remove the line. I don’t know if they could have removed the line through the clean out port but they were bummed they didn’t have the option. They bought the boat used with the plugs already sealed in place.

check copart for a donor boat sometimes they come up but o doubt you will find one for less than a few thousand dollars.

Good to know -- thanks. Wasn't sure if that would even be an option. If that becomes the only and/or best option, may be worth pursuing. I'll also check out copart -- thanks.

 

[Don Briere]

If you have the pieces a good (aluminum)welder could do it. Even without the pieces it can be cut back to clean edges and weld in a patch you have a good side that all measurements can come from...................BUT like others have said small claims court gives you the money this LABOR INTENSIVE project will require..

Got it -- thanks. Small claims here we come..!

 

[Julian]

What really sucks about this story is that @Don Briere was trying to get the boat so he could USE the plugs.....and now he's back to gluing one in permanently!!! I'm still stunned by this marina's incompetence! Please tell us their name so we can ALL avoid them like the plague!

 

[Beachbummer]

Got it -- thanks. Small claims here we come..!

Should be more like criminal court for this maiming.

 

[the MfM]

The level of incompetence to do that is stunning. It’s not like there isn’t 87 threads or multiple YouTube videos on how to remove stuck plugs if they only took a moment to research the problem.

 

[tdonoughue]

I humbly disagree. The plug catches on the aluminum dimples only a bit. The plugs fly of because the plug mechanism closes/disengages. As long as the plug can grab hold from a solid place, you will be set.

I think it's a mistake to try to re fiberglass the whole thing and a weld or bolt on solution would be best.

Of course, this is the internet and everyone has an opinion. But I suspect there are multiple ways to make this work without breaking the boat more.

Disagreement is welcome, especially when done respectfully as you have done. Thank you, sir.

I think you are right, but I am skeptical of making the solid place for the plugs to hold. If it is a bit too wide or a bit too flexible, the plug may blow (even with the mechanism closed). I understand most plug blows are from the mechanism failure. I fear it could also happen if the port is a bit too wide or too flexible as well.

Of course, I could be wrong. This is certainly a first for us...

Thanks for the insights! I was having the donor boat/salvage yard idea, but was coming up short with finding an exact match. Do you know of any good websites to search for a donor or junkyard parts match? Or... is it more luck of the draw? Thanks again for the welcome!

I would say it may be luck of the draw. You can try CoPart... But the other thing is you may not need an exact match. Yamaha used that same setup on a whole range of boats. My '12 has the same thing. So you actually have many years from which to choose. You need to find a goodly wrecked or burned boat where that back pump part is undamaged. If you go that route, make sure to take pictures of your extraction from the donor boat. Not sure how the tube is held into the fiberglass, but there is probably a lip or something there and pictures may help them reconstruct.

That said, do heed @Beachbummer 's (and many others') opinions here. My idea is far from easy or cheap. Certainly not a sure thing...

I had another thought I wanted to run by the group as well (trying to think creatively here). What would happen if a welder sanded down/leveled out the base metal/aluminum piece and then simply sealed that hole off permanently. To my unskilled eye, the cleanout ports are a convenience should you ever suck something up. If they were simply closed off and something was stuck, wouldn't I be able to do it the old fashioned way and get under the boat to clear the obstruction? Trying to think outside the box here and wondering if that may be an option. I assume that would be an easier welding job. Thanks.

I agree this may be a viable option. Hate to see you do it and lose the cleanout ports, tho. I agree with @Julian that your base looks ok (it is above that where they destroyed things) and you could epoxy in. Only problem is that will likely be irreversible (without doing my original suggestion, that is). So you may even want to try the welding option before you go for the epoxy option. If you do try the weld, when you test it, put a nerf football in the hole after/on top of the plug. If it does blow, you don't want it to come up with full force against the hatch and ruin it.

 

[Dfred]

I’m very sorry for your circumstances. It is beyond words.

I believe a viable solution is one that can be reversed/removed would be to use a T-handle”less” plug that is held fast with a fabricated metal clamp down strap (or bar if you want to think of it like that, it may be better).

As stated - The necessary part is the jetpump tunnel seal that the bottom of the plug and gasket provides - you just need a way to make that hold fast under extreme pressure. You likely do not have to permanently epoxy (or whatever seal it in forever method). Instead make a stainless steal metal strap (or bar) that holds down the bottom sealing part of the plug. (Do away with the T handle and dogs. remove that large rubber access tube, it may be too hard to work with that in place). The lock-down strap would run left-to-right. One end fixed to the hull/clean out port metal and hinged. The strap would go over the top of the T handle-less plug. The other end would “strap down and lock down” on the other side of the clean out port.

I’m trying to explain something like those high-pleasure pipe end cap systems that uses either wing-nuts to snug down a bar that goes across over the end cap. Or a bar-lock that go across larger actual manhole covers seen in pipe systems, access hatches….

…. Will have to maybe draw something on scratch paper to illustrate the design? Let me know.

Bottom line: Be least destructive to the currently intact hull components - Don’t compromise the integrity of the hull. Be non-permanent (can release the strap/bar end if needed to remove the T-handle-less plug…. Make your own handle however). It may not be quick and easy as a T-handle, but in a pinch - you can unscrew or unbolt the strap/bar from over the top of the plug and remove the plug bottom to access the clean out port. Be cheap (minimal fabrication).

**thanks for the questions & ideas…. Update**
@the-MfM U bracket! And possibly even “easier” installation by using 2 of the 4 existing bolts that bolt down through the hull and tunnel. Make a “permanent” small mounting bracket that uses the bolt. Possibly use a “hinge-pin” connection on one side, and a “5” shaped bracket on other side to allow for downward tightening of the upside down “U” bracket that would fit over the T-handleless plug.
Hope this picture help:

 

[Ronnie]

@Dfred , i think I understand what you described above and interpret it to mean use a large pin, like the one in the picture to run across the top of the lower half of the clean out plug though holes drilled into the sides of what remains on the top of the clean out plug access port. Or use a hinged bar instead. It just needs to be tight against the plug. For the correct?

 

[the MfM]

Here’s my quick and dirty way to get back on the water. To me it makes sense to have a complete plug in place and find a way to provide down pressure to hold it in place.

Get a piece of pipe (red) that fits inside the damaged cleanout manhole.
Bolt (green) the pipe in three spots
Weld a flat bar (blue) across the new collar.
Drill and tap (yellow) the flat bar for two large diameter hold down bolts. Add nylock nuts to the bolts to lock them in place once adjusted.


Place a complete cleanout plug in the manhole. Add the new collar, bolt in place and then apply down pressure with the bolts in the cross bar. The cross bar will have to be fairly thick to drill and tap and hold the pressure. The new collar will have to be tall enough to clear the t handle. But it looks like with the plug in place there will be a couple inches of overlap to bolt through.

And if it’s a complete failure you haven’t damaged the boat more.

ETA: after my morning coffee I’m thinking you could accomplish the same thing with just a piece of flat bar bent into a u shape instead of the round collar.
(

 

[Tjw961]

I wish you luck on your idea about getting back in the water. Anything that doesn't cause further damage would be worth trying if it were me. I would go the welder path myself and tons of photos close up of it all before, during, and after the work. My biggest fear in repairing it would be the heat impact to all that fiberglass encased tube itself that would occur during the repair. But a good welder should be able to give some insight on that. Who knows, maybe they could do short periods of welds and let it cool from each one enough before continuing each step of the repair and minimize the heat impact to the fiberglass. I weld myself but only steel and certainly not a pro, so that is why I mention this.

Here's what I would do if the welder route didn't work: If a couple of welders push back from doing the work for any reason I'd get that documented (especially the why they wouldn't touch it part IF that occurs). Then I'd go back to the legal route if your boat couldn't be fixed from this type of negligent work. To me if they put you into a situation where it couldn't be repaired back to where Yamaha intended it to function physically then the case should be for damages at the full market value of the boat. And at that point you could give the marina the option if you wanted to use your fiberglass repair place choice if they source the part they destroyed AND pay for putting it in and getting back to functioning again. They could turn it down but when you do take them to court after being turned down for them to make this right it should make you be seen like you REALLY tried to work with them after their mess up. Just make sure that conversation is not threatening is what I would make sure I didn't do when I talked through offering for them to source the part and pay for your place to fix it as a solution.

Sorry you've been having to deal with this craziness. It's expensive enough just paying to replace things, the labor when you do need someone else to do it for you, but this type of situation should never happen to anyone IMO.

Hope there isn't anyone having any advanced work being done on their boats at this place if they do this type of shoddy work.

 

[tdonoughue]

Really like what @Dfred , @Ronnie and @the MfM came up with above. Seems to me like real winner ideas there.

 

[Don Briere]

Disagreement is welcome, especially when done respectfully as you have done. Thank you, sir.

I think you are right, but I am skeptical of making the solid place for the plugs to hold. If it is a bit too wide or a bit too flexible, the plug may blow (even with the mechanism closed). I understand most plug blows are from the mechanism failure. I fear it could also happen if the port is a bit too wide or too flexible as well.

Of course, I could be wrong. This is certainly a first for us...


I would say it may be luck of the draw. You can try CoPart... But the other thing is you may not need an exact match. Yamaha used that same setup on a whole range of boats. My '12 has the same thing. So you actually have many years from which to choose. You need to find a goodly wrecked or burned boat where that back pump part is undamaged. If you go that route, make sure to take pictures of your extraction from the donor boat. Not sure how the tube is held into the fiberglass, but there is probably a lip or something there and pictures may help them reconstruct.

That said, do heed @Beachbummer 's (and many others') opinions here. My idea is far from easy or cheap. Certainly not a sure thing...


I agree this may be a viable option. Hate to see you do it and lose the cleanout ports, tho. I agree with @Julian that your base looks ok (it is above that where they destroyed things) and you could epoxy in. Only problem is that will likely be irreversible (without doing my original suggestion, that is). So you may even want to try the welding option before you go for the epoxy option. If you do try the weld, when you test it, put a nerf football in the hole after/on top of the plug. If it does blow, you don't want it to come up with full force against the hatch and ruin it.

Thanks -- great suggestions (nerf football)! The welder said he thinks he can fix with, so we will see... I think that is my best option at this point. I will keep the group updated for sure. If the weld doesn't work, I'm leaning towards a permanent seal before going to 'plan c' or beyond. Thanks for all the great insights and ideas!

 

[Don Briere]

I wish you luck on your idea about getting back in the water. Anything that doesn't cause further damage would be worth trying if it were me. I would go the welder path myself and tons of photos close up of it all before, during, and after the work. My biggest fear in repairing it would be the heat impact to all that fiberglass encased tube itself that would occur during the repair. But a good welder should be able to give some insight on that. Who knows, maybe they could do short periods of welds and let it cool from each one enough before continuing each step of the repair and minimize the heat impact to the fiberglass. I weld myself but only steel and certainly not a pro, so that is why I mention this.

Here's what I would do if the welder route didn't work: If a couple of welders push back from doing the work for any reason I'd get that documented (especially the why they wouldn't touch it part IF that occurs). Then I'd go back to the legal route if your boat couldn't be fixed from this type of negligent work. To me if they put you into a situation where it couldn't be repaired back to where Yamaha intended it to function physically then the case should be for damages at the full market value of the boat. And at that point you could give the marina the option if you wanted to use your fiberglass repair place choice if they source the part they destroyed AND pay for putting it in and getting back to functioning again. They could turn it down but when you do take them to court after being turned down for them to make this right it should make you be seen like you REALLY tried to work with them after their mess up. Just make sure that conversation is not threatening is what I would make sure I didn't do when I talked through offering for them to source the part and pay for your place to fix it as a solution.

Sorry you've been having to deal with this craziness. It's expensive enough just paying to replace things, the labor when you do need someone else to do it for you, but this type of situation should never happen to anyone IMO.

Hope there isn't anyone having any advanced work being done on their boats at this place if they do this type of shoddy work.

The good news is the welder thinks he will be able to repair the base piece, so we are pursuing that angle at the moment. I like your line of thinking should we pursue small claims. Thanks for the thoughts! I'll post the marina's name at the bottom of this thread for other's awareness if you live in the area -- don't go there!

 

[Don Briere]

Hi all -- feel free to share out. The marina's name is Seaboard marina. They are out of South Glastonbury CT. Stay away! seaboard marina