Cold Feet, Depreciation, and Used Sales. Halp!!

[twentiesforever]

Hello Boaters,

I am hoping to join your ranks with my own SX240 this weekend even though life is still frozen up north. I'm buying a new 2014 leftover. After asking folks on reddit if they recommend me buying a yamaha, the crowd came down in pitchforks and decreed jet boats are not the way to go. Noise, maintenance, reliability, and costs reasons are listed One of the reasons I like them is that they appear to hold their value. Appear is the keyword. A survey of used models across the years on BoatTrader indicate a $2.5k hit on depreciation every year. I can more than live with that but I'm cost conscious and don't want to feel $5k or more a year. I see list prices online but have no idea on the actual transaction price.

For this forum that have sold their yamahas, what kind of yearly depreciation hit did you take? Can you please describe your model, years owned and transaction prices? I work with Big Data for a living and I cant help but apply certain methods to my own financial decisions. Thanks in advance.

 

[Julian]

I assume you have also looked at the NADA numbers (there is a link in the FAQ that takes you directly to the page). It is under the misc section #27 copied below for ya

http://www.nadaguides.com/Boats/2014/Yamaha/Personal-Watercraft

 

[ToddW850]

Welcome to the Forum @twentiesforever! You said the reasons you were given against Yamaha jetboats was because of "Noise, maintenance, reliability, and costs." Only one of those is legit, and that's the noise. The reliability is at the top and the maintenance is easier than most boats out there. This is my first Yamaha jetboat and I don't see me ever getting anything differnt.

Can't really talk on the depreciation from selling my boat (because I haven't sold one) but these Yamahas hold their value.

Rest assured, you'll have a great boat on your hands with the SX240. Good Luck

 

[twentiesforever]

I assume you have also looked at the NADA numbers (there is a link in the FAQ that takes you directly to the page). It is under the misc section #27 copied below for ya

http://www.nadaguides.com/Boats/2014/Yamaha/Personal-Watercraft

Yes, I did look thank you. The one i'm looking at is way under list and inline with Avg Retail but its new so that makes it better than used. I guess I'm trying to get a sense of how hosed I will get when selling in 4 years if I chose to. Boats are money pits as well all know, just how big is the questions.

 

[veedubtek]

Noise I could maybe see. Maintenance and reliability? I have to "LOL" at that one.

To give a little insight, I just bought a 2011 242LS a little over a month ago. I don't know what the MSRP was new, mid 50's I'm guessing? I'm sure the google knows. As a leftover, I'm sure it could've been had for 50 or better. He was asking $43K, I paid $40k, which pretty well puts it in line with your 2500/yr guesstimate or thereabouts.

 

[BoaterGuy]

My 2013 new was 53K. I think the 2011's were in the 47K new.

The 2015's addressed the noise issue significantly. I always recommend a test drive on both and make the decision for yourself.

There is definitely a lot less that can go wrong mechanically on these boats. Plus you can still find a lot of used ones with plenty of extended warranty left.

I love mine, but it is a boat and you will have to put in the time and money to take care of it.

 

[BigN8]

I would figure depreciation around $3000-3300 per year for the first 4-5 years then taper off as the boat gets older

 

[Julian]

FAQ Misc #7 will take you to a link with a spreadsheet with all the MSRPs for models back to 2008 (and a few beyond that). You could then take that and line the MSRPs with asking prices from the classified section....

 

[txav8r]

On a new boat, you suffer the bulk of the depreciation in the first two years from new. Even as a leftover, your still paying for a new boat, but discounted, not depreciated. You just can't get away from it. HOWEVER, Yamahas will hold more of their original value IMO, than any other boat line. That is due to demand. I bought an SX 230 as 1 year old leftover in the spring of '09 for $30,600 and sold it for about $27K 4.5 years later...but it had a ton of professionally done mods and upgrades, with very low hours...and it was stored indoors. I paid about $40K for a 2 year old leftover 2012 SX 240 last spring. Welcome to the forum, and good luck on the search...hope all of this helps!

 

[KXCam22]

I would want to see proof that the person owns or owned a jetboat before I would consider their "helpful" advice. As everyone has mentioned, you will get roughly the same depreciation on any powerboat. I have owned I/Os and my AR230, and the yamaha has given me more fun per $$ than the others. What many don't realize is that to get the same seating room as the yamaha you need to go up to at least a 28' power boat, due to the massive engine compartment. Good luck on the search. Cam.

 

[octavio3311]

Depreciation is inevitable - there's simply no way around it. But some are affected more than others.
I don't see many used Yamahas pop up for sale on our lake at all (to me, that says a lot) but the few I have seen tend to hold their value pretty well.
I see a lot more used MC's and Nautique's for sale around here. For comparison - I remember seeing a 2012 MC X15 with 60 hours sell for $65k in 2013. Original owner paid $86k the summer before!

 

[ACRDSPORT14]

I recently just sold my Yamaha, my dad was like "Good, it was too loud"

 

[BigN8]

I've owned my boat for almost 5 years now and I really only have 2 complaints about the boat. Everything else is exactly what I need or want in a boat. My 2 complaints would be:
1. Noise. I hate how noisy the boat is compared to my buddies I/O or wakeboard boats
2. No Neutral. I also envy how my friends can start the boat while it's moored to a dock or at anchor and not worry about creeping forward.

 

[Julian]

I've owned my boat for almost 5 years now and I really only have 2 complaints about the boat. Everything else is exactly what I need or want in a boat. My 2 complaints would be:
1. Noise. I hate how noisy the boat is compared to my buddies I/O or wakeboard boats
2. No Neutral. I also envy how my friends can start the boat while it's moored to a dock or at anchor and not worry about creeping forward.

Partially agree....I also dislike the noise...but they've addressed that with the 2015 24'ers and will flow that down to the others soon.
As for the no neutral...doesn't bother me at all....I start the boat when I want to go. Don't feel a need to start it sooner (saves gas too).

 

[txav8r]

Noise is relative I think. But you have the same amount of perceivable noise at WOT or cruise in an I/O as I do in this boat for the most part, and it is more wind noise than engine at those speeds. As a disclaimer, yes, it is more than the I/O, just not enough more for me to be overly concerned. If you beef up the stereo, you hardly notice. But at no wake speeds, it is a tad more noisy, and where I would really like to loose all the engine noise would be at cruise. On a larger boat with an outdrive, the exhaust is muffled by being discharged below the surface of the water, our exhaust noise at cruise is above the water level...but it is certainly behind the boat at cruise speeds and higher. I hope the 2015 sound levels prove to be a great improvement, but how does that help the 10's of thousands of previous year models? It is kind of like saying the 2015 is that much better...I have heard the same thing from those that did noise mods, then others that did the exact same mod stated that it wasn't that much better. Certainly for the effort and loss of stock trim, noise mods are a big project to get big results. But that too would be my only desire to see improved...I would not say that it was a negative however, I have now owned two Yamaha boats!

 

[BoaterGuy]

I dont have a problem with neutral on my boat? Maybe the buckets need adjustment?

 

[msavold]

@twentiesforever, we're going down the same exact road as you right now. We have a tentative deal on a 2012 SX240, which is almost exactly the same as the 2014 your're dealing with (upholstery fabric the only real difference) but are going back and forth as to whether to cancel it or not based on the three factors favoring the 2015s: NOISE, hull design, and the articulating keel.

Biggest "fear" about going with a new/newer boat: depreciation! So I put together the attached.

[EDIT: for people reading this in the future - based on prices/research done mid to end of March, 2015]

For the top table:

• MSRP is the sale price when new
• NADA Low and High are the values listed last week on NADA's web site. NOTE: I did this with NO options for anything (boat or trailer) and includes boat and trailer. If it has a galvanized trailer, it's worth more. If it has two covers, it's worth more. But so what? this gives a level base for all years
• Percent of MSRP is the NADA value as a percent of the MSRP purchase price. This was a surprising column! Quick! Name a 10 year old car that is worth 54.9% to 62.2% of the original MSRP? Note too that this is 2005 to 2015 - two MAJOR model changes in the midst!
• MSRP increase is one I did for curiosity - how much did Yamaha increase the price year to year
• % of MSRP is comparing the decrease in price to a new one. IMHO, this is the most common perception of people when speaking of depreciation - how much it's worth compared to a new one. But so what? It's what it's worth compared to what you PAID for it that matters!
• and the last couple of columns are how much the NADA value has changed from year to year. Note that the 2005s are a little weird - that's when they introduced the H.O. motors so caution when comparing because it's not right to compare HO/non-HO values IMO.

Below that, I've put some ASKING prices I've found on line recently and a couple of eBay "sold" prices from recent sales. Again - this is very "coarse" since there are clearly SO many factors in used prices (condition, hours, options, location...) but the gist of it is that the asking prices are, for the most part, in the range of the NADA values. Personal experience is that people are selling for 90-95% of asking.

Did this solve our new/used dilemma? NOPE! Made it worse - since we were expecting to see the used value TANK especially after purchased new! But they don't.

As for reliability/maintenance... I have done a LOT of research into this - it was my wife's biggest concern! (Two engines after all) Some points to ponder:

• talking to a number of dealers around, the best quote I got was "we just put [steering] cables and radios in them". Everything else seems pretty much bullet proof - and reading these forums and the ones on the "other" site pretty much confirms it.
• winterizing seems to amount to "take the damned thing out of the water"! The rest of it is stunningly simple - so much so that I plan to do most, if not all, of it myself. Cost per year a fraction of an o/b
• for us, we're going to run in areas with a lot of shifting sand banks. ALL the o/b engines around here have finely-polished skegs on the lower units. I can see a BIG savings in replacement props, seals, and such. (No, we don't plan to make a sport of running in ankle deep water but we also don't want to worry any more about bottoming out between the (supposedly 6' deep) channel markers because the last storm moved a sandbar.

If noise is a concern, see the other thread/spreadsheet I did (https://jetboaters.net/threads/just-how-noisy-thirsty-are-they.3938/#post-66982) and, as you read the charts, ask yourself also what speed range you'll most likely be operating in (flat out all the time or trolling most of the time to be extreme) and concentrate on the differences in that range. (What I mean is that if you only run flat out occasionally, then how much of a factor should the top end noise be in your decision?)

Finally, I'm afraid the signal/noise ratio on reddit can just be extreme so be cautious how much stock you put into their comments! Same for many other boating forums (including, at times, this one...) - favorite example around here is the Chaparral forums where they love their boats (as the Yamaha owners do here , especially if they spent $50k plus on them!) Jet boats were crap - until Chaparral, their beloved brand, came out with some, and then opinions changed!

 

[txav8r]

Neutral is a mindset. No matter how you adjust the buckets, some water is still being discharged as the impellers are always turning. So even if you adjust the forward creep out of it, it will still wander in neutral. It doesn't really bother me, and I have started and just let it lean on the dock lines in a slip. But it is a PIA if your expecting to start and let it warm up as you get everyone situated and then cast off and go. It means someone (me) is at the helm and feathering the throttles to station keep. But every boat drifts, even with a transmission that disengages the drive. So short GPS station keeping, tending the helm is still mandatory. I just remember several incidents around the ramp/dock...when I thought my drift was about to get me into trouble. Throwing someone off the back when you goose it, or completely soaking a perfect strangers family on the dock is not a way to win friends and influence people! lol

 

[BigN8]

Noise is relative I think. But you have the same amount of perceivable noise at WOT or cruise in an I/O as I do in this boat for the most part, and it is more wind noise than engine at those speeds. As a disclaimer, yes, it is more than the I/O, just not enough more for me to be overly concerned. If you beef up the stereo, you hardly notice. But at no wake speeds, it is a tad more noisy, and where I would really like to loose all the engine noise would be at cruise. On a larger boat with an outdrive, the exhaust is muffled by being discharged below the surface of the water, our exhaust noise at cruise is above the water level...but it is certainly behind the boat at cruise speeds and higher. I hope the 2015 sound levels prove to be a great improvement, but how does that help the 10's of thousands of previous year models? It is kind of like saying the 2015 is that much better...I have heard the same thing from those that did noise mods, then others that did the exact same mod stated that it wasn't that much better. Certainly for the effort and loss of stock trim, noise mods are a big project to get big results. But that too would be my only desire to see improved...I would not say that it was a negative however, I have now owned two Yamaha boats!

Noise is simply my opinion of the worst aspect of our boats. And I reiterate it's my opinion. I boat every weekend with a group of guys, one has a Supra, one has a 28' Formula, and one has a 27' Regal. I have been in all those boats and they all have a much smoother sound at any speed. I do agree at WOT you will have a lot of wind noise, but not if you are sitting down in the seats all the way, standing yes, sitting no. The other thing is I very rarely run the boat at WOT. I would say my RPM setting 90% of the time is around 6,000 rpm (32-35 mph) for 2 reasons, 1) better fuel economy 2) I'm never in a hurry to be anywhere when I'm on the lake. That being said the noise really bugs me sometimes. Yes, I can crank the radio and drown it out, but it's still there. Sometimes we just want to run across the lake at sundown with no radio, but you still have the high engine noise. I have been in all the boats listed above going 30-35mph and the difference in noise is astonishing.

 

[scokill]

I've been in boats that were almost as noisy, so it is a downside but my 9 year old (at the time, now 17) son pointed out the obvious and biggest advantage (to me) of the Yamaha boats when we were at the boat show. "Hey dad, you can jump and swim back here without hitting anything or cutting yourself on the prop!"