Cold Feet, Depreciation, and Used Sales. Halp!!

[SCSTWG]

I kind of think like you and maybe that explains why it took me 7 years to talk myself into buying a boat. I was set on buying a Chaparral prop boat. When push came to shove, I could not pass on the value proposition that Yamaha offers. I purchased a gently used boat (it was 2 years old and had 50 hours on it) and have been very happy with my purchasing decision. In fact, I think I could sell it for what I paid and I have not put a penny into the boat other than oil changes and cleaning supplies. Do not underestimate the value that this forum offers. Because the boat line is limited, the members here have answers to any questions for any model. Outside of something catastrophic, you should never have to bring a Yamaha to the dealer. Best of luck.

 

[jasoraso]

From my limited knowledge, it appears that Yamaha has raised its prices every single year - I'm just guessing here, but probably around $3k each year. Now each new boat typically has a few extra bells and whistles, but probably not $3k worth. I think the rest of that price increase is because there is very little inventory carryover from one year to the next. So, I think Yamaha's thinking is this: we sold everything we made last year for $x dollars, let's see what happens this year at $x+3,000

I bought my 2006 SX230HO in 2007. The retail price in 2006 was probably around $32k, and I paid about 26k one year later.

I think that explains part of the reason why the depreciation is relatively low on Yamahas.

I have to wonder if there is a ceiling to how high Yamaha can keep raising its prices.

 

[twentiesforever]

@twentiesforever
Below that, I've put some ASKING prices I've found on line recently and a couple of eBay "sold" prices from recent sales. Again - this is very "coarse" since there are clearly SO many factors in used prices (condition, hours, options, location...) but the gist of it is that the asking prices are, for the most part, in the range of the NADA values. Personal experience is that people are selling for 90-95% of asking.

Did this solve our new/used dilemma? NOPE! Made it worse - since we were expecting to see the used value TANK especially after purchased new! But they don't.

Awesome research. Your excel file echoes what I've been napkin paper mathin this whole time. This makes me feel good that others see the same. Thank you. No its just a matter of time until I sign on the dotted line. As for noise, I'm not going to sweat it. I might at some point do the sound proofing mods but I'm not going to worry about it.

 

[GTBRMC]

From my limited knowledge, it appears that Yamaha has raised its prices every single year - I'm just guessing here, but probably around $3k each year. Now each new boat typically has a few extra bells and whistles, but probably not $3k worth. I think the rest of that price increase is because there is very little inventory carryover from one year to the next. So, I think Yamaha's thinking is this: we sold everything we made last year for $x dollars, let's see what happens this year at $x+3,000

I bought my 2006 SX230HO in 2007. The retail price in 2006 was probably around $32k, and I paid about 26k one year later.

I think that explains part of the reason why the depreciation is relatively low on Yamahas.

I have to wonder if there is a ceiling to how high Yamaha can keep raising its prices.

Agree and yes, I think Yamaha is bumping up against the price ceiling.

They had a very strong value proposition when they were selling boats for $40K and the competition (not talking about SeaDoo) was at $58K (out the door pricing here).
Fast forward just a few years, and Yamaha is selling boats for $60K and the competition is at...maybe $64K for similar trim and functionality levels.

Yamaha has largely overcome the stigma left over from the two cycle engine days and certainly built up a lot of brand equity, but there are other competitors in their jetboat wheelhouse now and their pricing is nowhere near the bargain it was 5 or 6 years ago relative to other propulsion options.

 

[soggyshoes]

One thing to consider about Yamaha boats is that they are the number 1 selling boat in their class (16 - 24 runabouts) and yet there are so few on the market. That means that not many owners want get rid of their Yamaha once they get one.
I certainly have no regrets.

 

[xoomer]

I first bought a 2002 LX 2000 about 2 1/2 years ago for $6500 and two years later sold it within 10 days for only a couple of hundred dollars less than I had paid --now I have a 2014 SX240. The LX was noisy indeed but I don't find the SX 240 noisy at all. My only complaint is how difficult they are to steer at slow speeds, even with fins. Other than that, I think it is the best value for the money in this size of runabout.

 

[scokill]

One thing to consider about Yamaha boats is that they are the number 1 selling boat in their class (16 - 24 runabouts) and yet there are so few on the market. That means that not many owners want get rid of their Yamaha once they get one.
I certainly have no regrets.

At one point, Yamaha sold more than the other competitors combined in the runabout market. Not sure now though.

 

[Glassman]

@twentiesforever , First off, WELCOME. Glad you found us. You will be too if you decide to join the ranks of jet boat owners.

Now, let's get down to brass tacks....you were told,"Noise, maintenance, reliability, and costs reasons are listed"

Let's address those concerns one by one. But before we do, I'll give you a brief history of my Yamaha boat ownership.

My boat is old. Very old compared to many here. I bought mine in 2004 when the AR models first came out. It was the first one with a tower, dual throttles and a loose nut behind the wheel. I got to enjoy doing a few modifications to make the boat my own and have enjoyed every boating season since.

I tackled the "Noise" issue right off the bat, being one of the first, if not THE first to install sound deadening material in the engine compartment. It worked sufficiently for me and the family and I haven't added anything or done anything more to address that issue since. It's off the list so to speak.

They are right about the maintenance problems though....If I had known that I would have to change oil every season I might have thought twice. Oh, and I had to change the damn spark plugs a few times too! You would think that they would include that in the purchase price! These boats are sooo much work. But I have that licked now. My wife changes the oil for me while I enjoy a nice cup of coffee and a cinnibun while we float down the river in the morning. She barely disturbs me at all, so it's all good now from the maintenance standpoint!

The Reliability is a whole 'nuther issue altogether. I had to look that one up: Dependability, or reliability, describes the ability of a system or component to function under stated conditions for a specified period of time.
Well, I have a BIG problem with that one! NOBODY ever told me about the specified period of time part! I'm going into my 12th season with this boat and I'm nervous as hell...will this be the year? How 'bout next? I'm like a cat in a room full of rocking chairs.....just waiting for my first problem. Drives me nuts!

Lastly COSTS....well, I won't lie. This boat costs me a lot. I did the math and it's about two bucks a smile. And I've put over sixteen thousand smiles on the this boat. So, yeah, I'll be working a while to pay for all this fun we have every damn year. I just wish we could take a year off and be miserable like other people...you know, the ones without a Yamaha jet boat. Now THEY are the lucky ones.

So take heed, if you can hear me over all the noise on my boat (that would be the stereo and us fools singing) We can rely on this boat costing us a bunch of money for a long time to come because the damn thing starts up first time, every time...and that means I have to put gas in it an awful lot since I really have only two speeds...idle and WOT

 

[buckbuck]

I think Glassman has successfully and concisely described our problematic watercraft. You have been duly warned twentiesforever. Tread with caution.

 

[jwells]

I dont have a problem with neutral on my boat? Maybe the buckets need adjustment?

I was just wandering does yours sit still at neutral this is a question I asked my dealer before I bought mine and he assured me neutral is neutral and the boat will not move

 

[Julian]

Noise is simply my opinion of the worst aspect of our boats. And I reiterate it's my opinion. I boat every weekend with a group of guys, one has a Supra, one has a 28' Formula, and one has a 27' Regal. I have been in all those boats and they all have a much smoother sound at any speed. I do agree at WOT you will have a lot of wind noise, but not if you are sitting down in the seats all the way, standing yes, sitting no. The other thing is I very rarely run the boat at WOT. I would say my RPM setting 90% of the time is around 6,000 rpm (32-35 mph) for 2 reasons, 1) better fuel economy 2) I'm never in a hurry to be anywhere when I'm on the lake. That being said the noise really bugs me sometimes. Yes, I can crank the radio and drown it out, but it's still there. Sometimes we just want to run across the lake at sundown with no radio, but you still have the high engine noise. I have been in all the boats listed above going 30-35mph and the difference in noise is astonishing.

2012 Regal 27' at 30 mph produces 82 dba
2014 Formula 29' at 3o mph produces 81 dba
2015 Yamaha 242 at 33 mph produces 80 dba (28mph = 77dba)

So I think Yamaha has the 2015 models down to comparable if not better levels. One reason I can't wait to test drive one with my wife!!!!!

 

[tdonoughue]

I was just wandering does yours sit still at neutral this is a question I asked my dealer before I bought mine and he assured me neutral is neutral and the boat will not move

I would not believe him. That is sales talk. In my experience, you can have the buckets adjusted to MINIMIZE drift, but you will always have some. That said, you will also have a completely manageable amount (minor feathering of the throttles or turn of the wheel), if you are at the helm.

If you are not at the helm, why the @#$#^ are your engines running anyway? Shut them off and you are in the only true neutral these boats have. We all know they start up every time, so just shut them off when you want neutral. Plus it is safer.

 

[jlcj7]

2012 Regal 27' at 30 mph produces 82 dba
2014 Formula 29' at 3o mph produces 81 dba
2015 Yamaha 242 at 33 mph produces 80 dba (28mph = 77dba)

and you could buy 2 Yamahas for the price of one of those other boats

 

[BigN8]

2012 Regal 27' at 30 mph produces 82 dba
2014 Formula 29' at 3o mph produces 81 dba
2015 Yamaha 242 at 33 mph produces 80 dba (28mph = 77dba)

So I think Yamaha has the 2015 models down to comparable if not better levels. One reason I can't wait to test drive one with my wife!!!!!

If they really have made some measurable changes, then I applaud them listening to the owners. This reminds me of another issue though, and maybe it's one that can't be solved with sound deadening material, but I remember another fellow perhaps on the other site that used a decibel meter before and after performing the sound deadening mods on his boat. I remember him or someone else talking about pitch or resonance of the engines and that the decibels decreased but it still "seemed" loud.

It will be interesting to hear from the folks with older boats who have bought the new 2015's opinion on the sound, and I am referring to experience and not instrument readings.

 

[BoaterGuy]

I was just wandering does yours sit still at neutral this is a question I asked my dealer before I bought mine and he assured me neutral is neutral and the boat will not move

Does it sit absolutely still? No... but its no problem to hold on to the dock with both engines running. It's also not a problem idling waiting to get to a dock or for the ramp. It might need a feather of throttle here or there, but it really is no big deal for me. I came from an I/O (6 years) and the boat moving a tad bit is no biggie for me.

I wouldn't put the wandering on any of my dislike lists for this boat.

 

[BoaterGuy]

If they really have made some measurable changes, then I applaud them listening to the owners. This reminds me of another issue though, and maybe it's one that can't be solved with sound deadening material, but I remember another fellow perhaps on the other site that used a decibel meter before and after performing the sound deadening mods on his boat. I remember him or someone else talking about pitch or resonance of the engines and that the decibels decreased but it still "seemed" loud.

It will be interesting to hear from the folks with older boats who have bought the new 2015's opinion on the sound, and I am referring to experience and not instrument readings.

They did more than use sound deadening. They shaped the engine compartment to be smaller to reduce resonance, they changed the way they attach the inner hull to the outer and also changed the coupler on the drive shaft. Also, if you notice, the jet nozzles are different too. They have an inverted ramp on the bottom. I'm not sure if that has an effect on noise or not though?

 

[SCSTWG]

Does it sit absolutely still? No... but its no problem to hold on to the dock with both engines running. It's also not a problem idling waiting to get to a dock or for the ramp. It might need a feather of throttle here or there, but it really is no big deal for me. I came from an I/O (6 years) and the boat moving a tad bit is no biggie for me.

I wouldn't put the wandering on any of my dislike lists for this boat.

Not a big issue to me, but in neutral, my boat wants to move forward. When I am lined up waiting for my turn to come back in to the loading ramp, I definitely need no tap revers every couple of minutes to hold my ground. When I dock the boat, I need to shut it down once I am positioned. Perhaps my throttles need a little adjustment, but I have heard similar issues from other owners. Minor issue, but an issue. Of course, I have witnessed people forgetting to lift the lower unit and ripping the prop off as they drive up the ramp....never had that problem with a jet boat.

 

[OperationROL]

If they really have made some measurable changes, then I applaud them listening to the owners. This reminds me of another issue though, and maybe it's one that can't be solved with sound deadening material, but I remember another fellow perhaps on the other site that used a decibel meter before and after performing the sound deadening mods on his boat. I remember him or someone else talking about pitch or resonance of the engines and that the decibels decreased but it still "seemed" loud.

It will be interesting to hear from the folks with older boats who have bought the new 2015's opinion on the sound, and I am referring to experience and not instrument readings.

I am one of those guys. The noise level has vastly improved. I can have a normal conversation at any speed. It is truely amazing how they improved that. I did my maiden voyage with @buckbuck and that was the first thing we noticed, once underway!

 

[Britboater]

The 190's single engine boats defiantly hit depreciation hard, I'm looking into upgrading to a 240, I purchased just over 12 months ago and I'd say I've lost 8k, maybe 10 if I go into the dealer.
The twin engines certainly retain a better value, but I'd always look after any boat as good ones always move before bad ones.

 

[Belleville_Boater]

Just to prevent misunderstanding to new readers, the 2015 sound deadening is ONLY on 24'ers. Hopefully on the 21' in future models!!