EV's and Cold Weather

[BigN8]

Read this article this morning and it pretty much echos what I'm hearing from other people around me.

Opinion: Evidence EVs are a fading fad is ‘rolling in fast’ as Tesla, GM and Ford slash prices - MarketWatch

On a separate note I have a family member that works for Volvo manufacturing. Because of this we get a new Volvo XC 90 every year. I just ordered a new one and decided to give the (455 HP) XC90 T8 hybrid a try. I mean why not! Our current XC90 is around 280HP. I have heard that Volvo has decided to park all the EV90s they were making, which is the all electric version of this car.

 

[zpaul]

Read this article this morning and it pretty much echos what I'm hearing from other people around me.

Opinion: Evidence EVs are a fading fad is ‘rolling in fast’ as Tesla, GM and Ford slash prices - MarketWatch

On a separate note I have a family member that works for Volvo manufacturing. Because of this we get a new Volvo XC 90 every year. I just ordered a new one and decided to give the (455 HP) XC90 T8 hybrid a try. I mean why not! Our current XC90 is around 280HP. I have heard that Volvo has decided to park all the EV90s they were making, which is the all electric version of this car.

Not sure if I agree with word FAD, but I agree that those who wanted already got one when they were overpriced and gas was $4.00 in Maryland.
I definitely see the adoption of EVs slowed down quite a bit and even with all Tesla discounts and federal/state incentives - there is no line to buy it.
And come on! What can you get these days for $33,490?!?! For that price I am willing to pass some shortcomings of EVs vs getting Hybrid Camry for more.
Main worries are - range anxiety, a lot of tech for some, built quality, high insurance rates, media spreading stories how they catch on fire.
So unless it is a forced buy like it will be in CA for 2035 people will stick with ICE.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

It’s just silly to think that EV’s are a FAD. Worldwide, automakers will continue to develop more EV’s as this is what they see as the future for automotive sales. Most of us tend to have a very U.S. centric line of thinking. However, we are just part of a much larger global marketplace.

We have never owned an EV or hybrid vehicle. Just because we haven’t yet bought one, doesn’t mean that we wont buy one in the future. Don’t currently see anything on the market that we want or is in our budget. I think there will be a tremendous number of new EV/hybrid offerings in the next couple of years and I suspect we will find the vehicle that we want.

One plus side is that the more EV’s that are sold in world, the less the demand will be for gasoline. About 45% of a typical barrel of crude oil is refined into gasoline. Assuming a steady supply of oil, less demand for gasoline should mean less demand for crude, thereby driving down the price of gasoline for all of us ICE drivers.

Jim

 

[seanmclean]

Good god these threads always turn into such shit. As if there's a scenario where tomorrow all of the cars are EVs and the grid collapses. Its almost like the grid its a continuous improvement project or something. Sound like the folks who thought we'd lose telephone communications cause they can't handle the internet, LOL.

Please let us know what you find out!

Not a great week for testing as it warmed considerably, but pre-conditioning on a still chilly morning improved my consumption to about 16%, and regen was much stronger. Also had more traffi

 

[zpaul]

Good god these threads always turn into such shit. As if there's a scenario where tomorrow all of the cars are EVs and the grid collapses. Its almost like the grid its a continuous improvement project or something. Sound like the folks who thought we'd lose telephone communications cause they can't handle the internet, LOL.


Not a great week for testing as it warmed considerably, but pre-conditioning on a still chilly morning improved my consumption to about 16%, and regen was much stronger. Also had more traffi

The Grid worry is real. Look at California or Texas.
Other issue is a lot of Coal and Gas power plants are forced to retire. Nukes are getting very old and their operating licenses expire. Not only that but new Nukes are extremely expensive to build. Just google how many Nukes were retired in the past 5 years and see how many new were built.
Replacing Coal, Gas, and Nukes with Solar and Wind is not a very good match. Solar and Win tend to be not very reliable or "green" source of energy. So taken all this into consideration and growing demand by forcing EVs - I think soon a lot of states will face California problems.
We are already heavily incentivized here in MD through peak demand programs to get load off the grid by turning off AC, water heaters, not charging EVs in certain hours.
And that is how you get $0.04 per KWh at night for charging EVs.
Same concept, first you create a problem - and then you are trying to solve it.

BTW agreed that thread went off the track completely

 

[Coult45]

The IEA (International Energy Agency) released its annual report on Wednesday. It's LONG, and I'm not smart or patient enough to absorb all of the detail. But you can get a nice summary of the key points at the link below from International Intrigue (which sends out a very interesting newsletter). You can bypass the "give me your email for our newsletter" prompt and just follow the link to the article with no commitments. Talks about current and future energy demands in various parts of the world, growth/decline of different electrical energy generation sources, and their opinion on some of the good news and bad news in the report. Definitely worth scanning the summary.

It does not resolve the question To EV, or Not to EV

https://archives.internationalintrigue.io/p/iae-drops-2024-electricity-report

 

[Bottom Bracket]

White House energy advisor John Podesta and a throng of other dignitaries attended a long-awaited ground-breaking on Friday for an innovative, $1.85 billion lithium extraction and geothermal power plant at the dusty southern edge of the Salton Sea. Construction is underway despite the threat of a lawsuit that could stall or stop it.

Construction starts on huge lithium project near Salton Sea despite threat of a lawsuit

White House energy advisor, others attended Friday ground-breaking, but local group says risks have not been fully studied

www.desertsun.com

 

[BlkGS]

I think calling EVs a fad is a bit overzealous. It implies that they're gonna just disappear as quick as they came, like tamagotchis or eating tide pods.

I think BEVs will continue to take up a part of the market. There clearly are use cases for them where they make the most sense, but there's a lot of cases where they don't make sense. I think they're gonna be a part of our transportation system mix.

That said, I think the automakers are starting to realize they all jumped into the EV pond wayyyyyy too quickly, and it isn't nearly as big as they were told. They're seeing billions dumped into development of new models yielding a couple thousand sales a quarter. That's not a good business move and a lot of the automakers are panicking (rightfully so).

I think a lot of EV mandates will be quietly walked back. They were put in place by politicians who didn't have to deal with the repercussions and can just claims the brownie points, while some other poor bastard 10 years down the road has to figure out how to make it look right when reality comes to bear. The US isn't China (yet). The government won't force us to buy new EVs every couple years to prop up its fake economy. So the our governments will walk back or modify the rules of the mandates so not works. Like instead of being 100% electric, it will be 100% electric (each manufacturer must offer at least 1 electric vehicle for sale).

 

[Julian]

Julian says he enjoys long trips on EV and it is free for 2 years with ionic.
I personally want to get to places faster and as soon as free runs out you’ll be shocked to know that it is cheaper fill up Highlander then charge EV in 30-40 degree weather. Takes twice as long and cost at the end is higher for same mileage.

Who would want to do a road trip up north???? I moved south for a reason!!! LOL Road trip EV charging is about the same price as gas, cheaper if you have a contract with one company (I get a nice discount being an Uber driver - but I've barely ever used it as I still have over a year of free super charging). As I think I said, takes me 40 minutes longer to drive to Tampa in my EV - which is no big deal.

 

[Julian]

All car sales have seriously slowed down due to financing costs going up. Car dealer stocks are piling up for all types of vehicles (ICE and EV). If you are a cash buyer, I'd say later this year you'll get some smoking deals on whatever you want!

 

[zpaul]

Who would want to do a road trip up north???? I moved south for a reason!!! LOL Road trip EV charging is about the same price as gas, cheaper if you have a contract with one company (I get a nice discount being an Uber driver - but I've barely ever used it as I still have over a year of free super charging). As I think I said, takes me 40 minutes longer to drive to Tampa in my EV - which is no big deal.

Here we go. If I do that trip in Tesla Model Y hitting superchargers. in 60-70 degree weather.
It will take me 12 hours assuming Superchargers are not busy (and Tesla estimator is BS), you can easily add 5-10 min to each charge. However, If superchargers are full - double charging time since you are sharing load.
If I do it in Highlander it will take me 10 hours max. Google usually pretty accurate for me even with stops. I will stop for fuel and food and once or twice at rest area max on that trip.
I'll give you that it is way more enjoyable to drive long trips on Tesla vs Highlander. But even on 650 mile trip it will add 2 hours for me with BS Tesla estimator!!!
Out of Baltimore it is 3 hour difference and 18 hour drive on Tesla, and again assuming you are not sharing load with other Teslas or whatever car now be charged at Superchargers
To charge Tesla on that trip, assuming I drive 65mph and in good weather will cost $45. If you drive above 70mph and in rain/cold weather your consumption increases by 30-40%! so another $10-15 and more charging stops. Lets say $55 since I drive 75mph.
Now, same 650 mile charging with MD incentives at my house overnight at $0.03 will be $4.80 for same trip.
Highlander does 400 miles on highway on a tank. So 25 gallons and I am at $70. Just went to Orlando and gas was around $3.00 or lower.
So EVs are not that much cheaper if you use superchargers and do not have free charging or discounts.
I'll trade $15 for not driving 2 more hours.
But I drive Prius that 650 trip is only $35 and 2 stops one for food and one for rest area.
Driving from MD will turn it into 2 day trip on EV for sure while ICE does it in one day. And that's where I will need a hotel for $100-200 a night. Now it becomes more expensive to drive EV unless I want to sleep in the car at Rest area.
I would definitely try your route on EV since it is doable in a day.

 

[BlkGS]

All car sales have seriously slowed down due to financing costs going up. Car dealer stocks are piling up for all types of vehicles (ICE and EV). If you are a cash buyer, I'd say later this year you'll get some smoking deals on whatever you want!

I've been thinking this for like 2 years and the deals have yet to appear, lol.

 

[GTBRMC]

If I were doing longer road trips into naysayer wastelands (like WV, WI, MN etc) then I take the ICE.

Who would want to do a road trip up north???? I moved south for a reason!!! LOL …

As I think I said, takes me 40 minutes longer to drive to Tampa in my EV - which is no big deal.

This is a thread about cold weather EV performance.

Your dismissive comment referring to three of about 20 colder weather states as “naysayer wastelands” undermines your argument in several obvious ways. It is also interesting that one typically blue, one typically red, and one typically purple states are in your stated sample of states. Yet they are “naysayers” presumably because they have not fully embraced EVs. Interesting that the one obvious commonality across these states is they have colder than the average US climate.

Your experience driving to Tampa neither detracts nor adds to a discussion about cold weather EV performance - it is demonstrably irrelevant.

 

[zpaul]

Seems like refreshed Model 3 is pretty nice

 

[seanmclean]

I really, really dislike Tesla's trend to removing control interfaces. The loss of stalks on the new model 3 is crazy to me, and I almost certainly wouldn't have purchased one last year without them. I would certainly like the cooled seats from the new one, but that's about it.

 

[zpaul]

I really, really dislike Tesla's trend to removing control interfaces. The loss of stalks on the new model 3 is crazy to me, and I almost certainly wouldn't have purchased one last year without them. I would certainly like the cooled seats from the new one, but that's about it.

Agreed, that one is a miss same as yoke wheel on Model S.

 

[Julian]

This is a thread about cold weather EV performance.

Your dismissive comment referring to three of about 20 colder weather states as “naysayer wastelands” undermines your argument in several obvious ways. It is also interesting that one typically blue, one typically red, and one typically purple states are in your stated sample of states. Yet they are “naysayers” presumably because they have not fully embraced EVs. Interesting that the one obvious commonality across these states is they have colder than the average US climate.

Your experience driving to Tampa neither detracts nor adds to a discussion about cold weather EV performance - it is demonstrably irrelevant.

Oh so sorry for going off topic, you've correct my behavior....I feel well chastised! ROTFLMAO

As I said, newer EVs with faster charging and decent battery mgmt systems really handle cold just fine. I do find it fascinating how many EV owners I watch who really have no clue about what they are doing when it comes to charging. Its also fascinating how many riders I have who are amazed at my EV and had no ideas how nice it is inside (far more room that comparable ICE size vehicles). I can easily see that many many of them simply don't know what pre-heating is!

Being naysayers is the definition of not embracing something....thanks pointing that out. Sorry my phrasing triggered something....??? Yes there are pro and anti EV areas....its true.

 

[GTBRMC]

Oh so sorry for going off topic, you've correct my behavior....I feel well chastised! ROTFLMAO

As I said, newer EVs with faster charging and decent battery mgmt systems really handle cold just fine. I do find it fascinating how many EV owners I watch who really have no clue about what they are doing when it comes to charging. Its also fascinating how many riders I have who are amazed at my EV and had no ideas how nice it is inside (far more room that comparable ICE size vehicles). I can easily see that many many of them simply don't know what pre-heating is!

Being naysayers is the definition of not embracing something....thanks pointing that out. Sorry my phrasing triggered something....??? Yes there are pro and anti EV areas....its true.

Condescension is not a persuasive argument. You do you. Carry on.

 

[BigN8]

Condescension is not a persuasive argument. You do you. Carry on.

I don't get into debates with Julian or Bruce. You'll never win. They are the smartest 2 people on the face of the Earth.

 

[BlkGS]

Hot take...BEVs would be more popular if no bureaucrat had ever thought the words "EV Mandate" or "Ban ICE".

Americans don't like a few things. We don't like extra towels added into words like color. We don't like the metric system. But above all else, we REALLY don't like being told what to do. If EVs had just been offered, allowed to do their thing, and not forced and pushed so hard, there'd be less crappy EVs on the market, so the ones available would be better. People would buy an EV when it made sense for them, vs being mad at the idea that some corrupt bureaucrats decided what they can and can't buy anymore. The auto companies wouldn't be so rushed to comply at any cost and might put out some decent offerings actually. I think the take rate for EVs would be higher if you didn't have governments pushing it, because it would open people up to actually consider it vs just being immediately turned off by being told they have to.