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Has any one moved the post on the Shorland'r trailer?

OperationROL

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My buddy @Nathan Bryant did a lot of research with both Yamaha and Shoreland'r as well as trailer experts before moving his axle for proper tongue weight. Hoping he will chime in with his findings.
 

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So I got to thinking about why there would be such varying recommendations on tounge weight percentage and I think I figured it out. Ever notice how far back the axles are on a boat trailer compared to a utility trailer or travel trailer? Well this is because of where the the weight is. I think the axles being so far back on a boat trailer changes the physics reducing sway and porpoising on its own.

What does everyone else think?
 

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I think the high end of Shorelander's recommended would be the sweet spot.....so 400-450lbs for my boat/trailer/stuff. I think it is probably closer to 700 right now...but will need to weigh it to be sure. It is definitely a LOT heavier on the tongue than my 230....I know this because when both boats had the stock trailer jack, I wouldn't be able to swing it into place in the spot where I park at the end of my driveway (a bit of a hump there). So I'd squat down and lift the bow of the 230 slightly to get the jack into place. I was able to do this with the 230....the 242x....not a chance....thing doesn't budge when I try to squat lift it, and I'm not talking about moving it more than maybe 1".

It would be interesting to see if everyone's posts are in the same or similar positions too! I'll measure mine tonight when I get home! As Mel points out....a slight variance in distance will have a significant change in weight!
 

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So I got to thinking about why there would be such varying recommendations on tounge weight percentage and I think I figured it out. Ever notice how far back the axles are on a boat trailer compared to a utility trailer or travel trailer? Well this is because of where the the weight is. I think the axles being so far back on a boat trailer changes the physics reducing sway and porpoising on its own.

What does everyone else think?
The vast majority of trailerable boats in the 20-28' range are O/B. Maybe that's why.

I think @Julian makes a very good point about these new 240s being VERY hard to push around.
I think they are way too heavy on the jacks, I have not seen it in any other boat.

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I tow many toys in all seasons and have always double checked weight distribution. I've never had an issue with most stock set ups as the manufacturers have the R&D to substantiate their placement of trailer mechanics. The single most important factor is your tow vehicle, you can't pull a 242 with an S10 and expect it to pull beautifully, it's unrealistic. The manufacturers R&D is devised under proper towing equipment. Sure, you can tow these things with a lawn tractor, but don't expect the same mechanics as a proper tow vehicle. If you have your tow vehicle maxed out, I would HIGHLY consider a new tow rig. And remember, it's not always about getting it going, stopping it can be more important!! (how are your tow rig's brakes, trailer's brakes??) Also as an FYI, if you make any substantial alterations to your weight ratio or overloaded your vehicle and are in an accident, they (law enforcement/insurance) will hang you out to dry. State level law enforcement does not have latitude for trailer weight issues, ask any OTR/CDL driver.



Some light reading....

Understanding Trailer Weight Safety

You may be wondering what all this talk is about gross vehicle trailer weight, tongue weight, etc. I've put together an explanation of all the weights you need to know about in order to properly select your hitch equipment. A trailer chassis (springs, wheels, tires, axles, frame and tongue) is designed to carry a certain maximum load.

This load consists of the empty trailer itself, plus weight added in the form of water, food, clothing and anything else that may be stored in or attached to the trailer. The maximum load for which the trailer is designed is called the GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING (GVWR). This is the total of the weight on the axles and weight on the trailer tongue or fifth wheel kingpin.

The maximum trailer weight a specific axle is designed to carry is the GROSS AXLE WEIGHT RATING (GAWR). Again, the rating represents the empty vehicle’s axle weight plus the maximum added load. On trailers with more than one axle, the weight is divided between each axle and each has its own GAWR. The total of all axle loads plus the tongue weight must not exceed the GVWR. All of these ratings are found on the Federal Certification Sticker on the tongue of your trailer. This label is attached on the front roadside of the trailer. Ask you dealer or hitch installer where it is located if you are not sure.

To be safe, you must compare the actual trailer weight (loaded) of your trailer with the GVWR rating on the sticker.

How, you may ask, do I do that?

Well, there are two ways to accomplish this. You can take your rig to public government scales located off the highways (Weigh Stations) and weigh your vehicle. Or you can weigh your rig at small private scales operated at grain elevators, scrap material yards, sand plants, rock quarrys and other types of businesses.

Look in the Yellow Pages under Scales, or Scales-Public Weighers. These private scales will usually charge a small fee for issuing a certificate of weight. Some will not charge if you don’t need a certificate. The advantage of the private scales is that if you are overweight, you won’t get a ticket like you will at a Public government scale. Always ask permission and try not to go during busy hours.

If the loaded weight of your trailer exceeds the GVWR, you’ll have to remove items to bring the weight down to or below the GVWR. Here’s how you can figure out your weight at the scales:


  1. Weigh the trailer by itself. After driving the vehicle and trailer onto the scale, disconnect the trailer from the tow vehicle and move the tow vehicle off the scale. This figure must not exceed the GVWR of your trailer.
  2. Find the tongue weight. Tongue weight is the amount of downward pressure exerted by the trailer tongue onto the hitch ball. Move the trailer until the tongue is off the scales. Re-level the trailer by adjusting the height of the tongue jack. Read the trailer weight on the axles alone. Subtract weight on the axle from the total weight. This weight difference will be the approximate tongue weight.
  3. For small trailers, you can place the tongue on a bathroom scale. This won’t work for trailers with tongue weight over 300 lbs. For heavier trailers, use the method shown below. Be sure the trailer is level. Measure from the ground to the bottom of the frame at the rear of the trailer and also at the front of the trailer. The amounts should be equal when it’s level. Don’t use a level stick!


Once you have calculated the tongue weight on your trailer, you need to make sure the figure does not exceed the recommended load for your trailer. If the tongue weight is below the recommended amount you must move some of the load forward or strap a heavy object like a toolbox to the front frame of the trailer. If the tongue weight exceeds the recommended amount you must shift some of the load rearward in the trailer. Here are the recommended weight distribution figures:


Tandem Axle Trailer 9%-15%
Single Axle Trailer 10%-15%
Fifth Wheel Trailer 18%-20%

Here is the formula for calculating tongue weight:



Be sure you are loaded the way you anticipate traveling. If you expect to carry water or gasoline (in a boat), be sure your tanks are full, before doing your weight calculations.

4. Drive onto the scale loaded with all supplies, passengers, and equipment. Take a weight reading. Check the weight capacity of your tow vehicle in the owner’s manual. You must not exceed the capacity of the tow vehicle.


Proper Weight Distribution is required for towing stability and will assure that the trailer is not rear, front or side heavy. A light tongue weight or heavy weights placed at the rear end of the trailer can cause sway. On the other hand, too much weight on the tongue can overload the tow vehicle and cause poor tow vehicle braking, poor cornering and can damage the trailer frame.





Why am I spending so much time on weight? Well, as you will see, weight is the most important factor in determining towing safety and is where most mistakes are made. While it is very important that you know the total weight you are towing, and the total weight capacity of your tow vehicle and hitch, it is also just as important to know how to load your vehicle for safety.

A properly loaded trailer will perform better and handle more safely. You should always store heavier items on or close to the floor and as centrally as possible. Lighter items may be stored in upper cabinets, closets and drawers. Luggage or similar cargo transported inside your RV should be secured to prevent it from causing damage in case of a sudden stop.

When loading a trailer, store heavy gear first, keeping it as close to the floor as possible. Heavy items should be stored directly over or slightly ahead of the axles. Store only light items on high shelves. Distribute weight to obtain even side-to-side balance of the loaded vehicle.

For truck campers, first and foremost, you must not install a heavy camper on a light duty truck. The combination may result in damage, poor performance, hazardous handling and possible injury. When loading the camper, store heavy gear first, keeping it on or as close to the floor as possible. Place heavy things far enough forward to keep the loaded camper’s center of gravity within the zone recommended by the truck manufacturer. Store only light objects on high shelves. Distribute weight to obtain even side-to-side balance of the loaded vehicle.

To illustrate an actual example of how to use your new knowledge of weight ratings, here is a sample (partial) description that appears with an actual trailer in it’s brochure:


Unloaded trailer weight (with hitch weight) 7200 lb
Gross vehicle weight rating 11,000 lb
Net carrying capacity 3900 lb
Hitch weight 1200 lb
No. of Axles 2
Exterior Length 33’4

What we’re looking at here is the manufacturer’s specs on a 33-foot long travel trailer, which in this case has a 13-foot slide-out room in it. The GVWR is 11,000 lb. That is the most weight the chassis of this trailer can handle. The unloaded or dry weight is 7200 lbs. So, if you subtract the unloaded trailer weight from the gross vehicle weight rating, you get the net carrying capacity.

This is important because it tells you how much “stuff” you can load into this trailer and still remain within the guidelines for towing safely. This “stuff” includes water, clothes, food, bikes, gear and any options you may have added onto the trailer like air conditioning, generator, storage pod or TV dish etc. (Storage pods on top of an RV must not exceed 100 lbs including the cargo and pod weight).

Hitch weight is another name for tongue weight. Be aware of these weights to make sure your tow vehicle can handle this trailer. The owner’s manual that comes with your truck, SUV or van will tell you how much weight you can handle. Don’t even attempt to tow more than your vehicle can handle!

A friend of mine learned this weight lesson the hard way when he was taking a trip to Nevada. He had unthinkingly loaded several cases of soda in the very back of his trailer. In addition, all the holding tanks, (located in the rear of the trailer) were full and the water tanks, (located in the middle of the trailer) were empty, as he was heading home. He also had a couple of extra full propane tanks stored in the back of the trailer. As he was chugging along the highway, he slightly jerked the wheel and the trailer suddenly started to sway dangerously.

To get out of the situation he kept his foot on the accelerator and manually held the trailer brake control on until he was able to stop the rig in a straight line. (By the way, most people would have slammed on the brakes, which is the absolute WORST thing you could have done in this particular situation). Of course, he immediately moved the heavy items in the back of the trailer up to his pickup bed to redistribute the weight and relieve the danger. It’s safest to empty your gray water and waste tanks before traveling.

So, believe me, understanding your weight capacity and sticking to it, and distributing your cargo evenly can help you avoid an accident and even save your life and the lives of others. That’s why I’ve spent so much time on this aspect of towing safety.
 

swatski

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Here are the recommended weight distribution figures:


Tandem Axle Trailer 9%-15%
Those are very useful considerations for general towing.
However, not to veer too far off topic, how do you reconcile the numbers in the article with the Shoreland'r recommendations of 5-7% specific for Yamaha boat/trailer?
And more specifically, should one consider moving the post backwards to meet the OEM weight distribution guidelines?

EDIT: I probably should have said "consider moving the post and/or the axles" but I have no intention of moving the axles unless it is absolutely the only way to go.
Right now - for all I know - seems to me that moving the post backwards (how much - I'm not sure?) will make my towing safer. As I am convinced the actual numbers will show, I believe my boat/trailer weight distribution is not in accordance with the OEM guidelines.

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Mainah

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Those are very useful considerations for general towing.
However, not to veer too far off topic, how do you reconcile the numbers in the article with the Shoreland'r recommendations of 5-7% specific for Yamaha boat/trailer?
And more specifically, should one consider moving the post backwards to meet the OEM weight distribution guidelines?

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I have always used th 10-15% rule of thumb but today I have read both on the shorelandr site and with a couple of google searches I found that threads on the hull truth and bass pro that say boat trailers should be 5-7%. Some of what I read even specifies 10% for most trailers but 5-7% for boat trailers. I can't find any hard and fast explanations as to why though and I am one of those people who needs to understand why. I am about to tow the boat 1200 miles this weekend and want it to go as smooth as possible so actively watching this thread and hoping a mechanical engineer can explain why the tongue weight recommendation is different for a boat trailer.
 

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@MrMoose Time to chime in. Pleeease. :)

How do they do it in Canada? Just curious. :D

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@swatski, RANT ON: no time to read the previous posts, but all I can say is that my 2012 Durango R/T (soon to be sold) has had no problems with towing my 2015 AR240. Maybe your towing concerns stem from the vehicle that you are towing with... you know the one that fries it's brakes in the 35K mile range, compared to my Durango R/T that is at 78K miles on the original brakes, after two round trips towing from Houston to Ft. Lauderdale for the Bimini crossings... I know, bad grammar, but I only mention this because maybe it's a tow vehicle capability issue. I'm not a Dodge fan, nor am I promoting any other kind of tow vehicle, BUT I am currently searching for my next SUV. I hate that the Durango R/T is so long-in-the-tooth (ugly now relative to 2011), the Ford Expedition is ugly, the Chevy Tahoe is ugly, the GMC Yukon is ugly, the Cadillac is really expensive (and still kind of ugly), the Porsche is too small, the Grand Cherokee is also too small. The Infinity is big and capable but looks like a manatee. I'm frustrated, and I think that I'm going to buy another Durango R/T based purely on capability, and price relative to ugliness.
RANT OFF
Moose out.
 

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Ok, because of @Julian 's reply, ... although I don't live in Canada right now, when I do, I can confidently say that I will not be using an Audi Q7 to tow my boat when I am in Canada. My brother has a Q5 in Canada and he does not tow a boat. He just drives to and from work. His brakes failed after a year of ownership while the vehicle was under warranty, and Audi said that it was because he drove the vehicle in a corrosive environment, and they didn't cover his repairs. That's a fact, even considering that I don't like my brother. I'm not talking brake pads or rotors, but the caliper assembly. So, all I can say is that I won't trust an Audi to tow my boat through the Rocky Mountains when I search for a lake to drop my AR240 into. I'd have to place lots of faith in Shoreland'r's brakes, which is another story altogether, if I towed with an Audi. Them's the facts as I understand them.
I know that this is an opportunity for the truck guys to want to chime in, and justifiably so, but I'm an SUV guy out of necessity. @Julian, please update your post regarding what you're thinking of buying to replace your Q7. I'm really interested.
 

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@MrMoose I'm not concerned with the Q7 but with the weight distribution on the Shorland'r trailer in general, and the tongue weight to total weight ratio in particular (trying to figure out what's right).
Even sitting in my driveway, I am afraid to crank the jack up too high as it looks like it's going to buckle.

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Just out of curiosity, what is the hitch weight capacity of both of those audi's?
 

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Just out of curiosity, what is the hitch weight capacity of both of those audi's?
I could never get a strait answer as to the hitch weight capacity, goes for most cars/trucks. Towing capacity : Q7 TDI - 6600 lbs (Canada/US) or 7700lbs in Europe.

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One aspect of towing that hardly ever gets any attention, which I find puzzling, is the distance of the hitch ball/trailer coupler from the rear axle of the tow vehicle. The shorter it is, the better for towing - less squat, sway, and all sorts of other issues. Hence different tow ratings for some seemingly identical vehicles/models, where one would have a shorter rear end (and therefore shorter distance between the hitch ball and the rear axle resulting in higher tow rating).

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I think that I'm going to buy another Durango R/T based purely on capability, and price relative to ugliness.
MB hardware underneath, built in Detroit, and with an American V8, style, and price.
What's not to like!

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@MrMoose I'm not concerned with the Q7 but with the weight distribution on the Shorland'r trailer in general, and the tongue weight to total weight ratio in particular (trying to figure out what's right).
Even sitting in my driveway, I am afraid to crank the jack up too high as it looks like it's going to buckle.

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@swatski, I want to help, so next time I'm at my boat I'll take some measurements for you (like you have done for me!!) because I think that my 2015 (same hull and trailer) experience might be helpful. In 2015, when towing to Ft. Lauderdale, the tow from Houston to Ft. Lauderdale was wonderfully eventless. In 2016, the tow was a little hoppy when we hit some road construction on the way to Ft. Lauderdale (I dunno, it might be situational). I know that I loaded the stern more heavily in 2016 and had much less fuel in 2016, than in 2015.
My thinking is that the initial setup of my trailer was pretty much spot-on; hence, maybe my measurements might be helpful.
Love you, ...ya big pierogi!!!!
 

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@swatski , you have two minutes to ask questions before I get back to MiniMoose's soccer practice
 

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@swatski , you have two minutes to ask questions before I get back to MiniMoose's soccer practice
You are gonna make me drive into a ditch, Moose, on my way from one-of-those-children-of-mine tenor sax lessons...
I'll look at it later - tha k you!!!

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