HydroJet Pro EXPLAINED

[Murf'n'surf]

You betcha I'm subscribed.......

 

[swatski]

And I am unsubscribed.......

As he keeps people talking about it more, people will believe his bullshit.

 

[subysti]

@Bennie I are am coleggee emigucated I are ????

 

[Speedling]

Guys, if i made a widget and it behaved and looked like another persons widget but no copyrights were infringed on then what would i have done wrong?

I welcome innovation and competition. The consumer wins and the most successful producer wins. (Capitolism?)

We had a period of time with only sea doo and now have glasstron, chapperelle, scarab etc and i believe the industry and community are both better off!

Using different fins will have slightlydifferent results that will benefit people in different ways. Look at the evolution of cobra fins and thrust vectors!

There is a polite way to disagree here.
Put your money elsewhere; don't tear into someones credentials or personality.

Think of it this way: question the engineering, not the engineer.

 

[M@__]

I'm an electrical engineer so can I still chime in! You are a PhD engineer and driving a 2002 lx?

Haha, well that's two fold. Most EE graduates earn more than I do as an associate professor, and I have 10 years of student loans to pay off, amongst other various hobbies. The other aspect is that I love two strokes.

@HydroJet Pro I'm pretty sure I just came out in support of your product so no axe to grind... I will say your explanation ranges from lacking to misleading. I am glad you addressed it that way though because I went back in the thread and noticed you do cite jet deflection as one of the justifications for your products success. That's just not how things work. Tell me about how you determined the Reynolds number... All you said was 4000 and NASA... Really NASA is doing your RnD?!?! The real axe to grind, if I have one, is people claiming to be an engineer when they aren't. You said that you are, I can't dispute that, but I can dispute your claims being based on engineering science. Again since you have the background I would suggest going back through your claims and explaining them more clearly with the appropriate terms. It will help your product a lot more than just trying to deflect some forum troll.

This isn't about who has the most accreditation it's about making your product sell itself and shut down the haters.

If you would like to continue this in a pm I welcome that and will go back to clarify or correct any mistakes I may have made in these posts.

Best wishes,
Matt

 

[4x15mph]

@HydroJet Pro , if the fin bangs against a beach bottom or object, since it is attached to the throttle assembly (gate cable), wouldn't any shock create force on the cable and bucket/gate?

@HydroJet Pro
1) I am hanging on and appreciate how well you are handling this crowd. I like your responses personally
2) do you have a response to my question above which will help me decide if I ever want to go back to some version of fins again

 

[BigN8]

Guys, if i made a widget and it behaved and looked like another persons widget but no copyrights were infringed on then what would i have done wrong?

I welcome innovation and competition. The consumer wins and the most successful producer wins. (Capitolism?)

We had a period of time with only sea doo and now have glasstron, chapperelle, scarab etc and i believe the industry and community are both better off!

Using different fins will have slightlydifferent results that will benefit people in different ways. Look at the evolution of cobra fins and thrust vectors!

There is a polite way to disagree here.
Put your money elsewhere; don't tear into someones credentials or personality.

Think of it this way: question the engineering, not the engineer.

Not sure I can agree with your opening statement. Your statement works great for the second guy who is "kind of like, but different" than the original inventor. Let's turn it around on you. Let's say you were the first to come out with this great widget, performed all the original R&D, testing, how to mount, rolled it out there to the consumer, produced videos of demonstrations, then another knock off rolls out on the same forum that you get most of your business with a widget that looks JUST like yours. You still going to be as democratic with your opinion? Be honest.......

Edit: Just to be clear, I'm debating the principal of this, I still remain a finless jet boater.

 

[Speedling]

Not sure I can agree with your opening statement. Your statement works great for the second guy who is "kind of like, but different" than the original inventor. Let's turn it around on you. Let's say you were the first to come out with this great widget, performed all the original R&D, testing, how to mount, rolled it out there to the consumer, produced videos of demonstrations, then another knock off rolls out on the same forum that you get most of your business with a widget that looks JUST like yours. You still going to be as democratic with your opinion? Be honest.......

Edit: Just to be clear, I'm debating the principal of this, I still remain a finless jet boater.

And yet a third scenario where 3 guys come up with ideas separately but come up with very similar products.
While i would love for everyone to buy mine only, i think we all know that the all mighty dollar ultimately decides things.
Yes, i wouldlove for everyone to do great and offer slightly different products but eventually you have a supply and demand problem. If i did all the hard work and someone copied slightly and passed as their own it would really suck, and i feel bad but the reality is that eventually it happens.

Another thought...
If it didn't, it would be a monopoly.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

I can tell you over the years we have tested extensively and have worked with multiple hull designs and variations on our own design. I can tell you without a doubt that when a fin is in the up position I can feel it. The steering responsiveness is slower due to the turbulence of the water around the jet pump.

This product, in spite of a creative way of actuating the fins has a FATAL FLAW. The fins are up when the gates are up. It cannot perform at the same level as a product which keeps the fins down while the gates are up.

Thrust Vectors keep the fins down in the flow until you don't need them anymore (roughly 4-5 mph depending on current), then they pivot.

The safety is in the pivot. If you hit something they simply rotate and come back. If they were bolted to something like a reverse gate and you hit something the force could be sufficient to break the cable or worse.

Thrust Vectors are made from King Starboard, a marine rated UV stabilized UHMW. In 6 years I have yet to see cracking or any signs of failure due to UV.

 

[fireflymedic]

Not sure I can agree with your opening statement. Your statement works great for the second guy who is "kind of like, but different" than the original inventor. Let's turn it around on you. Let's say you were the first to come out with this great widget, performed all the original R&D, testing, how to mount, rolled it out there to the consumer, produced videos of demonstrations, then another knock off rolls out on the same forum that you get most of your business with a widget that looks JUST like yours. You still going to be as democratic with your opinion? Be honest.......

Edit: Just to be clear, I'm debating the principal of this, I still remain a finless jet boater.

Well it certainly keeps the cost down to have more than one option. It is also good for us the consumer as we have 3 kind of the same thing but different to pick from.

 

[swatski]

Guys, if i made a widget and it behaved and looked like another persons widget but no copyrights were infringed on then what would i have done wrong?

I welcome innovation and competition. The consumer wins and the most successful producer wins. (Capitolism?)

We had a period of time with only sea doo and now have glasstron, chapperelle, scarab etc and i believe the industry and community are both better off!

Using different fins will have slightlydifferent results that will benefit people in different ways. Look at the evolution of cobra fins and thrust vectors!

There is a polite way to disagree here.
Put your money elsewhere; don't tear into someones credentials or personality.

Think of it this way: question the engineering, not the engineer.

@Speedling I have benefited from your extremely helpful advice here in this forum, many times, therefore I feel I need to respond to you. I would like to "play nice in a sand box" (as Mikey, bless his soul, would put it).

BUT

What exactly is INNOVATIVE about making a product that solves a problem that no longer exists against other proven products that solved the problem years ago?

They show up late to the game and rip off all the people who developed tried and true steering systems, which they refer to as training wheels. Not because they have a better design compared to what is already in play but because they want in on a market that they obviously do not understand. (Like with @4x15mph question trying to get an answer about the reverse gate that operates on a tiny steering cable… Another big concern being vibration, of course).

My take on this:
If I had no idea about these boats I would likely fall victim to the kind of bullshit marketing these guys propagate. And there goes my money.

And BTW, he is not a random player/innovator.

Over, and out.

--

 

[HydroJet Pro]

@HydroJet Pro Tell me about how you determined the Reynolds number... All you said was 4000 and NASA...

@M@__ I appreciate the question and I promise you that our only interest is to, like you mentioned, explain our claims in the clearest way possible. TO answer your question: There are no reasonably price (<$25k), devices that can measure fluid viscosity (used to then calculate Reynolds number) on open water. You need to have an enclosed flow, like inside a pipe, to get somewhat accurate numbers with other sensors. Because, we have a background in aerospace, we have access to Computational Fluid Dynamics software, which we used to estimate flow properties at different speeds and effectively get data flow data, such as Reynolds number, and depressions in the flow. 4000 is simply the value at which a flow acts as turbulent, independent of the fluid in question.

@HydroJet Pro
1) I am hanging on and appreciate how well you are handling this crowd. I like your responses personally
2) do you have a response to my question above which will help me decide if I ever want to go back to some version of fins again

I am sorry I missed your question. Our fins will only be able to hit anything below the hull if you are in reverse mode. We made sure the fins wouldn't be lower than the draft on forward for this exact reason. If you do hit something really hard while on reverse, than the fins would give and break before the thick aluminum nozzle ever does. This applies to ANY steering system, including the competition, where the spring only works one way. In conclusion, different methods have been used by different companies, but when it comes to safety the end result is the same.

@Speedling A big concern being vibration, of course.

We can assure you that there is almost no vibration in our system. That is what we think is one of our advantages and one of the reasons for why we chose to create our product.

Thrust Vectors are made from King Starboard, a marine rated UV stabilized UHMW. In 6 years I have yet to see cracking or any signs of failure due to UV.

We agree. None of our previous Thrust Vectors have never discolored or shown signs of cracking.

 

[Speedling]

@Speedling I have benefited from your extremely helpful advice here in this forum, many times, therefore I feel I need to respond to you. I would like to "play nice in a sand box" (as Mikey, bless his soul, would put it).

BUT

What exactly is INNOVATIVE about making a product that solves a problem that no longer exists against other proven products that solved the problem years ago?

They show up late to the game and rip off all the people who developed tried and true steering systems, which they refer to as training wheels. Not because they have a better design compared to what is already in play but because they want in on a market that they obviously do not understand. (Like with @4x15mph question trying to get an answer about the reverse gate that operates on a tiny steering cable… A big concern being vibration, of course).

My take on this:
If I had no idea about these boats I would likely fall victim to the kind of bullshit marketing these guys propagate. And there goes my money.

And BTW, he is not a random player/innovator.

Over, and out.

--

Agree i believe.
I may not believe it's right or correct but it seems to be legal. That sound about right?

 

[Speedling]

@Speedling I have benefited from your extremely helpful advice here in this forum, many times, therefore I feel I need to respond to you. I would like to "play nice in a sand box" (as Mikey, bless his soul, would put it).

BUT

What exactly is INNOVATIVE about making a product that solves a problem that no longer exists against other proven products that solved the problem years ago?

They show up late to the game and rip off all the people who developed tried and true steering systems, which they refer to as training wheels. Not because they have a better design compared to what is already in play but because they want in on a market that they obviously do not understand. (Like with @4x15mph question trying to get an answer about the reverse gate that operates on a tiny steering cable… A big concern being vibration, of course).

My take on this:
If I had no idea about these boats I would likely fall victim to the kind of bullshit marketing these guys propagate. And there goes my money.

And BTW, he is not a random player/innovator.

Over, and out.

--

Also, thank you for saying that I have been a benefit! I only am on these forums to help others just as i was once helped!
That is why i want to give these guys a chance as well.

Since this thread and my comments here aren't really going to benefit anyone anymore i will move along. I knew better before i posted!

 

[itsdgm]

Guys, if i made a widget and it behaved and looked like another persons widget but no copyrights were infringed on then what would i have done wrong?

I welcome innovation and competition. The consumer wins and the most successful producer wins. (Capitolism?)

We had a period of time with only sea doo and now have glasstron, chapperelle, scarab etc and i believe the industry and community are both better off!

Using different fins will have slightlydifferent results that will benefit people in different ways. Look at the evolution of cobra fins and thrust vectors!

There is a polite way to disagree here.
Put your money elsewhere; don't tear into someones credentials or personality.

Think of it this way: question the engineering, not the engineer.

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Julian]

Great spirited discussion!

So now I have yet another reason that I need:

1. A really good drone
2. Multiple boats and multiple fin solutions (to test this all out)
3. Scarabs and Chaps (to test our their turning ability)

All in the name of the love of jetboating.....really honey....its a hobby! (AND I GET MY BOAT TOMORROW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

[Speedling]

Great spirited discussion!

So now I have yet another reason that I need:

1. A really good drone
2. Multiple boats and multiple fin solutions (to test this all out)
3. Scarabs and Chaps (to test our their turning ability)

All in the name of the love of jetboating.....really honey....its a hobby! (AND I GET MY BOAT TOMORROW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Which model?
Oh shoot, pics or it didn't happen!

 

[0627Devildog]

Great spirited discussion!

So now I have yet another reason that I need:

1. A really good drone
2. Multiple boats and multiple fin solutions (to test this all out)
3. Scarabs and Chaps (to test our their turning ability)

All in the name of the love of jetboating.....really honey....its a hobby! (AND I GET MY BOAT TOMORROW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Someone isn't going to sleep tonight. . . .

 

[0627Devildog]

Which model?
Oh shoot, pics or it didn't happen!

You missed the thread. . . .here's the pic of his new ride.

 

[Murf'n'surf]

You missed the thread. . . .here's the pic of his new ride.

Is it the blue or blue and white pwc?? Lol