Impeller Bearings Trashed ...lots of rebuild Pics pg 6

[Big Shasta]

Started this thread "over there" and I'm getting nothing, Seems to be very little help there anymore. Hopefully there are some folks that have been through this here.

We go on an annual lake vacation on Lake Martin Al every year during the 4th of July week. It's always huge fun and this year was no disappointment. However, on the last day. I started to get a bad vibration and weird noise on the port engine. Shut it down and inspected everything....seemed ok but we went back to the lake house a little early...sounded bad on the way back but it was just a couple miles. It was the last night anyway, so no big deal, didn't interrupt our vacation. Finally got a chance to dig into it. The port impeller bearings are trashed. Got it apart and was surprised to see the impeller looks awesome (from the back at least) for having 300 hours on it. Looks like maybe it was hitting the walls a little when the bearing went. Thoughts?

I ordered all the parts (times 2, going to do both sides). How hard is it going to be for me to get this cleaned up and back together?
Boat is an 05 AR230 NON HO. Has always had a great holeshot for a non HO and I can get to about 47 48 MPH with just me in the boat so I feel like the impellers are good to go.

Anyone find a substitute for this gear oil/grease all I've found are some "recipes" to make a substitute.

This shaft look ok? Feels smooth, just a little discolored, maybe got hot in there.

I expected the impeller and shaft to pull out at this point, what is holding it?

Inner shaft seal:

Outer/Aft race:

Item #16 Yamaha 93306-205U0-00 Bearing; shows as NOT AVAILABLE in boats.net but has been replaced by a new # 93306-205U1-00 which they do sell if you search by PN.

My biggest question right now is why doesn't the impeller slide right out. It should, right? Is it possible to get to the connection and soak the splines with pb blaster from the inside? Also, getting the rest of the bearing out of the housing looks like it's gonna be a bear....thoughts on that?

 

[MikeyL]

@Big Shasta: While I cannot help you with question and situation, I wanted to make SURE to WELCOME you here. And hope to start off your JBN visit as just 1 of many many here !
So, we're glad you "came over" and hope you stay for a long time. Sincere Best Wishes, Mikey Lulejian - Lake Oconee, GA

 

[Ronnie]

Big Shasta, I remember you from yjb, welcome to the site. I agree, there seems to be less help over on the other site these days and a lot of the new members don't seem to know or care about the search function so many of the new questions are not new at all. Anyway, I've removed the impeller/shaft combo several times from the '06 sx230ho I used to have so here is what I know from memory.

1. The impeller and shaft will have to come out together because the impeller spins onto and secures to the shaft from the front of the shaft. So you should be able to grab hold of the impeller from the rear and shake and pull it until the splines at the front of the shaft loosen up releasing both it and the impeller. When I removed the combo it was still attached to the stator (part 9). If you want or need more grip on the shaft simply remove the intake grate so you can get to the side of the shaft.

2. If you want assess the condition of your impellers start with the leading edge of the blades / fins not the trailing edge since the leading edge is subject cutting through the water and anything else going through the pump first.

3. I can't tell you how hard or difficult it will be to remove the outer race of the bearing or reinstall it but it sounds like it may be pressed in so special tools or a big vise may be required but nothing that a local machine shop couldn't handle in just a few minutes.

4. If you have never maintained that bearing the cause of its failure may be lack of grease (along with debris getting in it and acting like sandpaper) by maintain I mean replacing or adding grease to it every few years. You have to remove the cone (as you have now) to do so. Some have added a fill hole to the cone so make adding grease easier, you may want to consider doing this as you replace the bearings this time around.

5. I'm calling on @Murf'n'surf since he had to replace his main bearings (the bearings the front of the shaft sits in) due to rot earlier this year and may have more insight into your situation.

Good luck.

 

[Murf'n'surf]

I just had to replace the cone bearings.

You will need to use a long piece of something strong (long bolt is what I used) and slide it in through the intake and hold it against the center of the impeller collar. Smack the bolt with a hand sledge to free it up.

I had to replace one entire shaft because the bearing was seized to it. Sorry for the short response--swamped with that work thing currently. I did post a thread on this site about it. Welcome aboard and don't look back!

 

[Bruce]

Welcome Aboard @Big Shasta .

This is @Murf'n'surf's thread about changing his.

https://jetboaters.net/threads/shaft-bearings-shot-now-stuck-shaft-ugh.157/

 

[Bruce]

Island Racing sells grease for the bearings

http://www.islandracing.net/240242.html

 

[Big Shasta]

Awesome...Thanks for the welcome aboard and the perfect advice. In days over there I got nothing.... Ya'll gave me more than enough in just a couple hours.

Thanks Again!


Also, I had no idea this was a periodic maintenance thing...there was a little grease in there but it was full of water too. I'm replacing the cones and all seals and this will be part of my annual maintenance from now on.

 

[bucks448]

Another option to get the leverage needed to remove the impeller and shaft is to remove the wear ring housing first. At this point there's nothing else holding the wear ring housing on, and there should be tabs against the transom plate where you can use a flathead screw drive to pry it apart. Once that's off you can wrap a rope around the impeller and shaft to get leverage and pull it out.

It will probably take some convincing especially if it's never been removed. Also, FWIW, it's generally easier to leave to the pump assembled rather than pull the bearings and housing, and just pull the whole thing out together. There's more to get leverage on, and then you can work on the bearings on the bench.

 

[Boat Crazy]

Sounds like you are in good hands now. I do want to take the time and welcome you to jetboaters.net. Glad to see you finally found us. When you get time, check out the member map. And guess what! We already have site swag, flags, t-shirts, hats and some are working on other items. Again, Welcome and hope you get your repair done quickly and easily and back out on the water.

 

[Bruce]

I used a wide pry bar to carefully remove the wear ring section from the boat.

Nothing holds the shaft in the boat, but it is attached to the wear ring section. So this comes out as a unit.

 

[Scottintexas]

sorry to hear about your problems but glad to have you on board! wasn't posting pictures easy, no resizing needed,

update your location in your profile as Boat Crazy and it will automatically put you on the map, also the @ @Big Shasta feature is a great way to send somebody an alert on post,

KxCam 22 tapped a screw into the cone to give it a yearly bath on page 2 of the link Bruce posted above that came from our FAQ/ TIPS section,

 

[Murf'n'surf]

Most likely your shaft is hung up at the splines and seals in the intermediate bearing assembly on the inside if the boat. Therefore you will need to beat the shaft out. I'd skip the impeller housing seperation--that's not likely to be what's holding your shaft from coming out!

Thanks @Bruce for linking the thread!
I'm in home automation/security hell from a lightning strike. Beern working sun up to sun down trying to resolve issues only coming up for air when I need the mental break!

@bigshasta Ask away....we have ALL of your answers somewhere on this amazing site and in our heads. Spread the word, we don't turn down people that need help or want to help solve problems. Cheers.

 

[Julian]

Welcome @Big Shasta - looks like you have lots of answers. But your question has me asking one of my own on this same topic. If you've already disassembled yours (which it appears you have) then perhaps you have a perspective/answer:

Interesting that greasing the cone bearing is a maintenance item.....so how easy is this to accomplish? I've had the whole pump off, but didn't disassemble it at that time as I was just inspecting the wear ring and impeller. The service manual shows the steps, but I assumed that removing the impeller from the shaft was going to be a PITA! Not to mention that I thought the bearings needed to be pressed on?????

 

[Big Shasta]

Welcome @Big Shasta - looks like you have lots of answers. But your question has me asking one of my own on this same topic. If you've already disassembled yours (which it appears you have) then perhaps you have a perspective/answer:

Interesting that greasing the cone bearing is a maintenance item.....so how easy is this to accomplish? I've had the whole pump off, but didn't disassemble it at that time as I was just inspecting the wear ring and impeller. The service manual shows the steps, but I assumed that removing the impeller from the shaft was going to be a PITA! Not to mention that I thought the bearings needed to be pressed on?????

From the research I've done and the experience of tearing apart, it seems simple to do the annual inspection/maintenance. Pull the impeller out (probably 30 minutes tops if you do it regularly it won't be all bound up) and then just pop off the cone that holds the grease. assuming it's not full of water and the bearings look good, just regrease and replace the oring and reassembly. I bet you could do both sides in a couple hours total.

On a side note, I remember seeing someone with the long bolts sheered off from the jet pressure. I decided to replace all 8 since the boat is nearly 10 years old and always in saltwater...I was pretty shocked they came right out no problem. my cones look pretty bad too so I'm replacing them as well. All the seals/orings, all bearings 8 long bolts and cones for both sides, 322.00 from boats.net. This boat has been super cheap so I don't mind at all.

Thanks again everyone for the welcome and the great info. I wish I had found ya'll earlier. Looks like a great place. I'll be hanging around.

Anyone know the PN for the impeller removal tool for a NON HO...is it different? I don't want to order the wrong one.

 

[Julian]

@Big Shasta do the bearings just slide on, or do they need to be pressed on?

 

[Big Shasta]

@Big Shasta do the bearings just slide on, or do they need to be pressed on?

Can't answer that till I get to reassembly. But if you're just inspecting, you don't have to take the bearings off. You would just open the cone and look for water and replace the grease and the oring. You would be looking at the view in my first picture above...only without the carnage!

 

[Rigger]

From the research I've done and the experience of tearing apart, it seems simple to do the annual inspection/maintenance. Pull the impeller out (probably 30 minutes tops if you do it regularly it won't be all bound up) and then just pop off the cone that holds the grease. assuming it's not full of water and the bearings look good, just regrease and replace the oring and reassembly. I bet you could do both sides in a couple hours total.

On a side note, I remember seeing someone with the long bolts sheered off from the jet pressure. I decided to replace all 8 since the boat is nearly 10 years old and always in saltwater...I was pretty shocked they came right out no problem. my cones look pretty bad too so I'm replacing them as well. All the seals/orings, all bearings 8 long bolts and cones for both sides, 322.00 from boats.net. This boat has been super cheap so I don't mind at all.

Thanks again everyone for the welcome and the great info. I wish I had found ya'll earlier. Looks like a great place. I'll be hanging around.

Anyone know the PN for the impeller removal tool for a NON HO...is it different? I don't want to order the wrong one.

Holy crap Ken @Big Shasta, welcome! Sorry about the trouble's but certainly glad it didn't happen to you sooner on your vacation. A few years back I replaced the grease in the cones of my old 230 while changing my impellers out and I used the stuff from Island Racing - as noted by Bruce above. I highly recommend it! I'd be more than happy to send you the one I have, I bet it would fit. Send me your address I'll mail it tomorrow.

 

[Bruce]

@Julian, I inspected my bearings back in May. I thought I wrote a member tip on it but I can't find it anywhere.

If you want to inspect yours push the throttle forward so the buckets will be open. Remove the 3 allen head screws holding the cap on. I believe they are 5mm. I used a cordless impact and a long extension to remove them.



Then try really hard to find a war to remove the cap. Mine were stuck on and I had to remove the impeller and its housing to get them off. It would be much easier to just wiggle the cap off. The cap has a rubber o ring seal. So try really hard to get them off without disassembling the pump.

Once the cap was off I found grease on the bearings



And a lot more in the cap



I was glad that I had not found any water.

I used my finger to apply some of the grease from the cap to the bearings.

Then I applied some Permatex High Temperature Thread Sealant to threads as a substitute for the Loctite® 567 requested in the service manual.

If you disassemble the pump many other parts require thread sealant and Yamalube Molybdenum Disulfide Grease is needed on the shaft. I substituted Honda Moly Grease which I was able to locate.

I also used a light coating of Life Caulk to form a seal between the pump housing parts. RTV or some other sealant had been applied at the factory.

I am torn on whether or not this should be an annual maintenance item. I checked mine before the Bimini trip because I wanted to know their condition. But if you open them to inspect and do not reseal perfectly then you will end up replacing these components when they rust. @Murf'n'surf and @Big Shasta have had corrosion that I assume was from water getting in here. Inspecting them could be a good way to identify water seepage and corrosion before it gets out of control but opening and closing for inspection could also be the cause of seepage.

You can see pry points on the cap in my third picture. If you could find a pry tool with a 90 degree angle near the tip then you could use those pry surfaces reaching in through the jets. Some type of plier with two surfaces that would contact the two pry points would be even better.

 

[Wayloncle]

Welcome @Big Shasta,
Aren't you in the PCB area?
This site has a great member map.

 

[jdonalds]

It's true the "other site" looks like a bunch of newbies starting over with advice.

I've seen a couple of pumps blow bearings like that. Sometimes the cause can be explained (poor maintenance, leaking seals, etc.) sometimes there is no apparent cause. This is why I pull the cones off every year to check the grease and see if there is any water incursion.

I'm sure once you get them back together they'll be like new.