JetBoatPilot's New Surf Tech, Thrust Vector Wake

[JetBoatPilot]

I’ve confirmed nothing is out of aligned and the white acetal bushing is not pinching the bucket.

Is the up stop bolt head rubbing the reverse pivot point? If so we can send you some bolts that have been turned down to a smaller diameter. New bolts are now .50" diameter as compared to the early bolt heads that were .625".

 

[Scuba_ref]

The spring itself prevents it from sliding out of its pivot point. When the preload is set the spring traps the bushing. In the next generation we're combining the
Bushing with the nylon washer on the outside of the fin's pivot point. It will make the install alot easier and will help to further insure it's done right.

Can we get the new part? Btw took my time over 24 hours to install everything. Had the old upstop brackets so had to grind those myself.

Took the boat out today and LOVE it.

@JetBoatPilot
I did notice that the port side TVW was shaking in when under way and the stbd was not. Any ideas?

 

[Scuba_ref]

Is the up stop bolt head rubbing the reverse pivot point? If so we can send you some bolts that have been turned down to a smaller diameter. New bolts are now .50" diameter as compared to the early bolt heads that were .625".

I would like some new bolts. Mine currently bind against the spring...not sure if that is normal or not.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

I would like some new bolts. Mine currently bind against the spring...not sure if that is normal or not.

Ok email me at will@jetboatpilot.com so I'll have this reminder for tomorrow.

 

[cbrown9956]

Is the up stop bolt head rubbing the reverse pivot point? If so we can send you some bolts that have been turned down to a smaller diameter. New bolts are now .50" diameter as compared to the early bolt heads that were .625".

I’m not seeing anything rubbing or binding in anyway. Definitely not seeing any signs of damage to the TVW or the reverse bucket. I’ll have to wait till I’m back at the lake in 2 weeks. I’m not entirely sure what the issue is.

 

[jEt_jAk]

Have the revised parts for single engine started shipping yet?

 

[biffdotorg]

Time for a report, now that I am back from the lake for 10 days.

As soon as I got into the boat on the trailer, at the landing and turned my steering wheel straight, i could feel the weight of the fins on the pumps. This is as normal as any other fins. My CobraJet steering I could feel that weight, and I could feel it on my first set of TV-XV's. The TV-Wakes are metal compared to the starboard of the XV's. So just that moving mass added weight to the wheel. This is a total non-issue and was expected. If anything, like driving a car, you felt like you were turning something and not just flopping the wheel from side to side. +1

Once in the water, at idle the boat would steer. i really noticed this gliding into my lift with the buckets in neutral. This is as good or better steering than the XV's or CobraJet's I had in the past. So for steering they perform as expected. +1

At speed, they turn well too. Towing at or above 18mph seems similar, as i am assuming the fins are up. I did notice the off power steering comes back quicker than my XV's as I am 90% sure my springs were much weaker or getting week. The weight of the metal fins maybe allows them to drop quicker. But off power spins are gone. +1

Steering with 850lb Transom bag on the swimdeck is heavy. This is the only real time I noticed that it was heavy. And when I say heavy, I mean you can still turn the wheel with two fingers, but it would surprise someone, as you would almost assume a rope was wound up in them, as it's different than at other times. Most expect it to be the same all the time. So it's obvious that the fins are down, and you are feeling the forces that help you turn. But boy does it turn!! +1 and -1 (call it a non-issue)

Spray reduction seems to be minimal at tubing and boarding speeds. The kids are still comparing this boat to our previous boat, and say the spray is less. They think it is less after the TV-wake install, but it was minimal change. They may have been saying it to make me feel good. I do believe that I may need to adjust my up stops so that they are down further. It's all in the tuning. -1

Wave cleanliness is minimal as well. There are way too many variables to this comment. First, for the same reason the tubing spray reduction is minimal, I may have to tune the TV-Wakes down further. We also did see an amazing clean wave with everyone on board listing the boat. So ballast is playing a big part on this as well. We surfed with our 850lb bag centered, and using human ballast on one side to list the boat. So the addition of more humans and putting the bag on one side will have a serious effect on wave shape. Cleanliness is up in the air, as it was never clean. -1

Since we did see a beautiful clean rolling wave, we know it can be achieved. But finding that balance of weight, and setting will take time. We may also need to get our regular and goofy foot riders setup in sessions, so that we can move our transom bag fully to one side for one session, and to the other for the next session. As that takes time. But it may be worth it for a cleaner wave.

I do know that the combination of the bag and the TV-Wakes is putting out more volume. The wave has push, and a lot of it. The young kids were going ropeless right away and were amazed at the push. Even me, the fat kid went ropeless as per the video. I had yet been able to do that with previous setups. So we know the combination can do the job +5

All in all, this setup is worth the price of admission. And with more time tuning, we hope to be enjoying it even more. It's nice to have off-power steering back, and the potential of a clean wave is exciting. I do believe the Transom bag, even though a pain to move, is the safest way to add ballast for us. I noted that our boat a 25mph with that bag deployed will make the boat porpoise at a very alarming and dangerous level. So I could never imagine boating with 800-1200lbs of weight I cannot take off the back. I am sure setups like that get moved inside the boat when lake running. Being able to drain the bag off for lake runs, is very important.

I did note that since the swimdeck was under water, I may have been taking on a fair amount of water into the bilge. We did drop more water than normal when I pulled the plug on the trailer at the landing.

Good luck everyone! More tuning to come!

 

[gthh]

@JetBoatPilot Will, the white nylon bushings stayed in place after 4 hours in rough seas. (Lake Erie).

So rough at times I ripped a Garmin Transducer off the boat and based on the scaring ( just a few minor dings) on the fins, the transducer was banging on Starboard fin until it broke loose, which gives some evidence to the products durability (heavy 10” GT51 Garmin Transducer with bracket-$500 contribution to Davey Jones Locker!)

 

[Scuba_ref]

Ouch...I've been a little reluctant to do the install. Now I've had the gauntlet thrown done, guess I need to put on my big boy panties and get it done!

Thanks for the encouraging words @biffdotorg !!

Got er done!

 

[Rod5]

Time for a report, now that I am back from the lake for 10 days.

As soon as I got into the boat on the trailer, at the landing and turned my steering wheel straight, i could feel the weight of the fins on the pumps. This is as normal as any other fins. My CobraJet steering I could feel that weight, and I could feel it on my first set of TV-XV's. The TV-Wakes are metal compared to the starboard of the XV's. So just that moving mass added weight to the wheel. This is a total non-issue and was expected. If anything, like driving a car, you felt like you were turning something and not just flopping the wheel from side to side. +1

Once in the water, at idle the boat would steer. i really noticed this gliding into my lift with the buckets in neutral. This is as good or better steering than the XV's or CobraJet's I had in the past. So for steering they perform as expected. +1

At speed, they turn well too. Towing at or above 18mph seems similar, as i am assuming the fins are up. I did notice the off power steering comes back quicker than my XV's as I am 90% sure my springs were much weaker or getting week. The weight of the metal fins maybe allows them to drop quicker. But off power spins are gone. +1

Steering with 850lb Transom bag on the swimdeck is heavy. This is the only real time I noticed that it was heavy. And when I say heavy, I mean you can still turn the wheel with two fingers, but it would surprise someone, as you would almost assume a rope was wound up in them, as it's different than at other times. Most expect it to be the same all the time. So it's obvious that the fins are down, and you are feeling the forces that help you turn. But boy does it turn!! +1 and -1 (call it a non-issue)

Spray reduction seems to be minimal at tubing and boarding speeds. The kids are still comparing this boat to our previous boat, and say the spray is less. They think it is less after the TV-wake install, but it was minimal change. They may have been saying it to make me feel good. I do believe that I may need to adjust my up stops so that they are down further. It's all in the tuning. -1

Wave cleanliness is minimal as well. There are way too many variables to this comment. First, for the same reason the tubing spray reduction is minimal, I may have to tune the TV-Wakes down further. We also did see an amazing clean wave with everyone on board listing the boat. So ballast is playing a big part on this as well. We surfed with our 850lb bag centered, and using human ballast on one side to list the boat. So the addition of more humans and putting the bag on one side will have a serious effect on wave shape. Cleanliness is up in the air, as it was never clean. -1

Since we did see a beautiful clean rolling wave, we know it can be achieved. But finding that balance of weight, and setting will take time. We may also need to get our regular and goofy foot riders setup in sessions, so that we can move our transom bag fully to one side for one session, and to the other for the next session. As that takes time. But it may be worth it for a cleaner wave.

I do know that the combination of the bag and the TV-Wakes is putting out more volume. The wave has push, and a lot of it. The young kids were going ropeless right away and were amazed at the push. Even me, the fat kid went ropeless as per the video. I had yet been able to do that with previous setups. So we know the combination can do the job +5

All in all, this setup is worth the price of admission. And with more time tuning, we hope to be enjoying it even more. It's nice to have off-power steering back, and the potential of a clean wave is exciting. I do believe the Transom bag, even though a pain to move, is the safest way to add ballast for us. I noted that our boat a 25mph with that bag deployed will make the boat porpoise at a very alarming and dangerous level. So I could never imagine boating with 800-1200lbs of weight I cannot take off the back. I am sure setups like that get moved inside the boat when lake running. Being able to drain the bag off for lake runs, is very important.

I did not that since the swimdeck was under water, I may have been taking on a fair amount of water into the bilge. We did drop more water than normal when I pulled the plug on the trailer at the landing.

Good luck everyone! More tuning to come!

Excellent written up and summary of your experience with the TVW. Just sharing that I found augmenting your ballast with Straightline 150 lb bags is a quick and easy way to move List ballast from one side to the other. These small bags have 2 grab handles that allow you to pick up full bags to move them. They work great and are inexpensive so 3 or 4 of them are reasonable.

 

[geohil]

Follow up on my TVW review – new parts installed and spent the day pulling tubers. The fix works to lighten the steering. My wrist that operates the throttles all day long is way more sore than my steering wrist. I did notice a bit more spray at the 17-20 mph tubing speed. Still have yet to surf

 

[JetBoatPilot]

Time for a report, now that I am back from the lake for 10 days.

As soon as I got into the boat on the trailer, at the landing and turned my steering wheel straight, i could feel the weight of the fins on the pumps. This is as normal as any other fins. My CobraJet steering I could feel that weight, and I could feel it on my first set of TV-XV's. The TV-Wakes are metal compared to the starboard of the XV's. So just that moving mass added weight to the wheel. This is a total non-issue and was expected. If anything, like driving a car, you felt like you were turning something and not just flopping the wheel from side to side. +1

Once in the water, at idle the boat would steer. i really noticed this gliding into my lift with the buckets in neutral. This is as good or better steering than the XV's or CobraJet's I had in the past. So for steering they perform as expected. +1

At speed, they turn well too. Towing at or above 18mph seems similar, as i am assuming the fins are up. I did notice the off power steering comes back quicker than my XV's as I am 90% sure my springs were much weaker or getting week. The weight of the metal fins maybe allows them to drop quicker. But off power spins are gone. +1

Steering with 850lb Transom bag on the swimdeck is heavy. This is the only real time I noticed that it was heavy. And when I say heavy, I mean you can still turn the wheel with two fingers, but it would surprise someone, as you would almost assume a rope was wound up in them, as it's different than at other times. Most expect it to be the same all the time. So it's obvious that the fins are down, and you are feeling the forces that help you turn. But boy does it turn!! +1 and -1 (call it a non-issue)

Spray reduction seems to be minimal at tubing and boarding speeds. The kids are still comparing this boat to our previous boat, and say the spray is less. They think it is less after the TV-wake install, but it was minimal change. They may have been saying it to make me feel good. I do believe that I may need to adjust my up stops so that they are down further. It's all in the tuning. -1

Wave cleanliness is minimal as well. There are way too many variables to this comment. First, for the same reason the tubing spray reduction is minimal, I may have to tune the TV-Wakes down further. We also did see an amazing clean wave with everyone on board listing the boat. So ballast is playing a big part on this as well. We surfed with our 850lb bag centered, and using human ballast on one side to list the boat. So the addition of more humans and putting the bag on one side will have a serious effect on wave shape. Cleanliness is up in the air, as it was never clean. -1

Since we did see a beautiful clean rolling wave, we know it can be achieved. But finding that balance of weight, and setting will take time. We may also need to get our regular and goofy foot riders setup in sessions, so that we can move our transom bag fully to one side for one session, and to the other for the next session. As that takes time. But it may be worth it for a cleaner wave.

I do know that the combination of the bag and the TV-Wakes is putting out more volume. The wave has push, and a lot of it. The young kids were going ropeless right away and were amazed at the push. Even me, the fat kid went ropeless as per the video. I had yet been able to do that with previous setups. So we know the combination can do the job +5

All in all, this setup is worth the price of admission. And with more time tuning, we hope to be enjoying it even more. It's nice to have off-power steering back, and the potential of a clean wave is exciting. I do believe the Transom bag, even though a pain to move, is the safest way to add ballast for us. I noted that our boat a 25mph with that bag deployed will make the boat porpoise at a very alarming and dangerous level. So I could never imagine boating with 800-1200lbs of weight I cannot take off the back. I am sure setups like that get moved inside the boat when lake running. Being able to drain the bag off for lake runs, is very important.

I did not that since the swimdeck was under water, I may have been taking on a fair amount of water into the bilge. We did drop more water than normal when I pulled the plug on the trailer at the landing.

Good luck everyone! More tuning to come!

We really appreciate the thorough write up! We too have continued to tweak this past few weeks and literally just got off the water. The new V2 height gauge was adjusted slightly north of the original height gauge. This was done to ensure that the system would not be overloaded since the installs are being done by a wide range of installers with equally wide ranging skill sets. Once we tested again today with our V2 gauge settings we decided to go back to the dock and give the up stop bolts a full turn each (bolt head nearer the transom). This lowered the deflectors a bit and the wave got much cleaner. We just brought it back to the shop and are about to adjust about 1/2 turn extra which I think will get us back to the original V1 gauge height, which was always most optimal. During testing I put my hand on the deflector and pushed down ever so slightly on the fin and the wave got super clean so we know that the smallest adjustment can make a huge difference. My rider said that the wave got taller too. In fact, he said he felt like the wave was up to his waist for that short time and he's 5'10.

We'll shoot some video next time we're out. The water was pretty rough today and we could not get anything worth showing off!

Also we're going to begin instructing customers to leave their bilge pumps on while loaded with ballast. The boat does take on some water when the swim platform is submerged and the bilge should be able to pump it off as the boat takes it on.

We too noticed the boat was porpoising alot with the weight all in the rear so adding some to the front, or adding passengers to the front fixed that.

Today's Setup and Rig

2015 Yamaha AR240, Thrust Vector Wake Twin With JetWash Deflector, Perfect Pass set at 11.2 mph, 600 lbs of steel shot on the lower swim platform. 150 lbs steel shot in the rear surf side storage compartment, 300 lbs on the upper deck surf side, 200 lbs in the bow, 20 foot of salt water, one camera man, driver and surfer, fuel half tank, minimal gear on the boat.

 

[biffdotorg]

I am so glad we are on the same page. Especially with your results using a 24' boat. This gives me comfort in knowing we are getting similar results and something is not totally amiss.

I am excited now to move my ballast fully to one side, lower those deflectors (one turn to test) and be ready to weight the boat down bow to stern for control and safety. As much as I hate to hear, I'm glad I'm not the only one that took on so much water. I will be sure my bilge is on as well, as my bilge has been dry for a year, and I was surprised how long we sat at the landing dumping water.

I know the bilge pump can move quite a bit in short order, so that's a non issue as well in my eyes.

Great report. I'm just excited to know I am not going to be investing any more in boards (for now) and probably more in ballast. And my beers for my human ballast that I need.

PS: the kids about lost their mind when i could get the boat up to 18-20mph with so much ballast on board. The wake was massive. And their dreams of clearing the wake upside down started to go through their little heads!

 

[Matt Phillips]

Thanks for the comments all. I recently updated the TVWs and the steering was noticeably easier than the original version.

It did seem there was a descent wave at surfing speeds, but we really didn't get a chance to try it this weekend as it was unseasonably cool with air temps about 70 and water at 66. Will hopefully try it a bit in a couple weeks when back at the lake. Since the boat is in the lake until Labor Day I won't get a chance to make any adjustments until that time. If it looks like the fins need adjusting down at that time, I may give each a turn toward the boat and see how that works for the next trip.

I also agree with Will on ensuring the bilge pump is on whenever there's weight on the stern. Even without boarding at all this weekend once at the slip all it took was 2 people standing on the stern to kick on the bilge pump. When there's weight on the transom, the pump will cycle much more frequently. I chalk this up to a likely hole at the rub-rail. The bilge keeps up with it though and it hasn't proven to be an issue.

 

[gthh]

lost my gauge any way to check adjustment without my gauge!

 

[JetBoatPilot]

lost my gauge any way to check adjustment without my gauge!

We can send another if you need, cost is $5 plus shipping.

 

[drewkaree]

So got the TVW installed without a problem. Took it out for a spin and noticed putting it in gear seemed to he harder to do. Has anyone else noticed that? Is there a fix for it also?

Check the face on the reverse bucket boss and the surrounding area. You may have some epoxy in that area somewhere that is either catching on the bucket or is rubbing as you throttle up.

In the next generation we're combining the Bushing with the nylon washer on the outside of the fin's pivot point. It will make the install alot easier and will help to further insure it's done right.

That stinkin' nylon bushing had me feeling like I needed two more hands to keep everything in place. Making that all one piece is a very good move

 

[DirkG]

Got my TVW install done today. Had a question and sent a message to @JetBoatPilot. Was about 5 pm east coast time so I was worried. They called me right away!
Will and the crew were super helpful. Greatly appreciated.
Got it done, excited to try em out this weekend.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

Got my TVW install done today. Had a question and sent a message to @JetBoatPilot. Was about 5 pm east coast time so I was worried. They called me right away!
Will and the crew were super helpful. Greatly appreciated.
Got it done, excited to try em out this weekend.

Glad we could help before we left the office! Enjoy and please let us know how your first trip goes.

 

[Rumbo]

I just finished my install. Overall, super easy! I did it over 2 days, I finished the epoxy on day one so I could let it cure overnight. Day two I finished up. If you have the time to do it over two days I highly recommend it. Letting the epoxy set up before you start wrenching on the fins and such meant I didn’t have to worry about bumping and moving the upstops. It was also very helpful to have cured epoxy while adjusting the upstops.

My only gripe with the kit/install (though not a big deal) was the 11mm nuts on the deflector. I own probably 10 different metric combo wrench sets and not one of them contains an 11 mm. That makes me think 11 mm may be kind of an odd size. Like I said, not a big deal as I realized that 7/16” is only 4 thousandths of an inch bigger. You can’t put enough torque on a #3 Phillips to allow that 4 thousandths to strip the nut. Only reason I mention it is that I wasted probably 45 minutes going through all my tool boxes and combo wrench sets before I decided to do the math to figure out if a standard size would work.

I’ll be testing it out this weekend and I can’t wait to get on the water. I’m testing at 7000’ elevation so I hope I am able to get on plane after weighing down with some ballast.