JetBoatPilot's New Surf Tech, Thrust Vector Wake

[Ratket]

Get a “ same size Nut” and run it up and down the threads, also try running a tap down the bracket to clean out the threads.
Just a thought.

 

[cbpagent72]

I should've mentioned I can run the not up-and-down the threads no problem it just stops in the in the bracket. Do you know what thread pattern and size of tap I should get?

 

[Ratket]

Not a clue, I recommend taking them both to a hardware store with you to confirm size before purchase, also lubricate the piss out of it when you do run the tap down to help clear what ever is stoping it out.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

Not a clue, I recommend taking them both to a hardware store with you to confirm size before purchase, also lubricate the piss out of it when you do run the tap down to help clear what ever is stoping it out.

Not sure, just checked all my taps and its not an M8x1.25 and it seems like 7mm is too small. Is there a 7.5 mm tap at your local hardware store?

 

[Ratket]

Not sure, just checked all my taps and its not an M8x1.25 and it seems like 7mm is too small. Is there a 7.5 mm tap at your local hardware store?

Well I don’t have a clue on the size, My local hardware store prolly doesn’t even stock Taps. But if I could figure out the size, I could likely order one from Amazon. If it was me having the issue. It’s just a thought to try and help the op out. He’s clearly looking for any and all help.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

The end of the steering rod probably beat itself against the steering arm because it was so far past it's proper setting and that probably messed up the last threads of the rod so check that and clear it with a file so it will unscrew through the threads. Just a wild ass guess or not

 

[cbpagent72]

Not sure, just checked all my taps and its not an M8x1.25 and it seems like 7mm is too small. Is there a 7.5 mm tap at your local hardware store?

I can't seem to find a 7.5 mm tap I'm going to bring in the part to Home Depot and see if they have a screw that can thread in there and maybe I can fix the issue . The other side worked no problem but this one side is giving me big issues. I just got home from work and ran the nut down the full length of the threads and no problem.

 

[cbpagent72]

Solved the thread question. It is 5/16 24

 

[Ratket]

Atta boy! Now to just clear those threads.

 

[cbpagent72]

Done..now it is threading nicely after tapping.

 

[Ratket]

Woot! Glad that worked out for you.

 

[cbpagent72]

Putting on the fins and I'm having a hard time imagining how this is not gonna be an issue the tolerances are too tight. I have the first ones that were sent out it looks like the notch for the spring is too far indented and the bolt head flares out too far.

 

[cbpagent72]

The solution looks like you have to replace the original hardware bolts and get a Dremel to cut different notches since it's already epoxied. heading to Home Depot to see if I can find stainless steel bolts with a smaller head. In my case the screws that the spring goes around Are slightly too long which makes the spring arm elongated so the only fix is cutting a different notch.

 

[cbpagent72]

Well I ground down the head of the bolt and it's no longer in the way, I'm gonna do it to all 4. Now I've got to figure out how to get that spring out-of-the-way because it's notched too close to the Jets. it's either that or I grind on the plastic. If somebody tells you this is a three hour job on a 2018 or later...it's not. my mistake is that I should've put the setscrew on and then assembled everything the way it was supposed to go before I put on the epoxy and then I would've realized these issues.

I'm not really sure why it's designed to be so close and why there can't at least be 1/8 to 3/16 extra width" each side to avoid that issue and get a plastic bushing with a lip (outside) so it doesn't want to keep sliding away and under the spring.

 

[drewkaree]

Well I ground down the head of the bolt and it's no longer in the way, I'm gonna do it to all 4. Now I've got to figure out how to get that spring out-of-the-way because it's notched too close to the Jets. it's either that or I grind on the plastic. If somebody tells you this is a three hour job on a 2018 or later...it's not. my mistake is that I should've put the setscrew on and then assembled everything the way it was supposed to go before I put on the epoxy and then I would've realized these issues.

I'm not really sure why it's designed to be so close and why there can't at least be 1/8 to 3/16 extra width" each side to avoid that issue and get a plastic bushing with a lip (outside) so it doesn't want to keep sliding away and under the spring.

It sounds like you're running into the exact issues I did. There's supposed to be a replacement screw offered that's had the head turned down, much like you did. If I were you, I'd head to your local screw place that's NOT a big box store, and find 4 cap head socket screws to replace those screws with, or order them from McMaster-Carr. That's what I've done, and if I don't replace the screws this weekend, I'll be doing so next weekend when I'm on vacation. The plastic bushing with an outside lip is also another improvement that's now included with all the new kits.

The problem I had with trying to put the set screw on before epoxy is that it didn't hold well enough to allow me to assemble everything - I HAD to epoxy the upstop on there to find out the issues I had.

It looks like you haven't gotten to the part of reassembling the steering clevis, and again, if your install is anything like mine, you're going to want to use the new bolt that is included in the updated deflector you should have gotten.

In the moment, I was extremely frustrated. Looking back on it, there are some simple fixes that were done for future purchasers, but you got a discount for being an early adopter. I was quickly reaching the point where the discount wasn't going to be worth the troubleshooting I was having to do. There are parts now available to address the issues you (and I) had, but I don't know if you're in the same situation as me, where you want to use your boat NOW, without having to remove all of the work you've done up to this point.

 

[Ratket]

That sucks. Hopefully you get it sorted with out to much issue.

 

[Rumbo]

I just spent my first day on the water with the TVW and have mixed feelings on it.

First, my install was issue free. I haven’t had any of the issues that others have had. While tolerances are close everything clears on my ‘18 AR240. I believe I have the latest version, smaller head on the upstop bolt and notched upstop bracket, etc. Mine shipped 7/1.

On the water....
Edit*** Day two on the water with some additional thoughts and changes to my initial review.

I’ll start with the negatives...
1. Steering is heavier. Not offensively heavy but immediately noticeable and consistently heavy through all speeds. Not thrilled with this but it was expected and if other benefits pan out it’s worth it.

Edit*** The steering feels normal now. I’m sure if I took these things off I would be surprised about how loose the steering would be. I too wonder about the long term effects of the additional stress on steering components but from a strictly operational perspective it feels normal. Had I driven one of these boats for the first time with this system installed I don’t think I would have second guessed anything about the steering. It feels like power steering in a full sized vehicle.

2. Throttle levers are heavy. This is consistent through the entire throttle range. Nothing is catching or obstructing the buckets or cables so I’m not sure what is causing this. Like the steering it’s not offensive but it also is not preferable.

Edit*** I can’t tell if the parts wore in or I just got used to the additional drag on the system but this is now a non issue for me.

3. My reverse buckets need adjusted. Not sure what during the install caused them to move out of adjustment but neutral now moves me backwards at about 1 mph. Simple adjustment to fix so not a big deal.

4. I don’t see how this improves anything on plane. At tubing and wakeboard speeds the spray and jet wash are huge! We haven’t pulled tubes yet but I don’t see this providing a dry tube ride. I will update on this later once I pull some tubers.

Edit*** my depth perception was off. The wake is a mess behind the boat on plane but at a standard tube rope length (I don’t know how long my tube rope is. It’s an Airdead with an 10’ or so additional piece, I did not have the additional piece on) the ride was dry. I jumped the gun on mentioning something about this before I actually pulled a tube. The ride is dry.

5. I have a noticeable list to port at all speeds above no wake. I used the gauge to adjust the upstops evenly. I think if I either adjust the port side to deflect more downward or decrease the deflection on the starboard side it will even out.

The positives...

1. Steering control at no wake speed is awesome. Steering input is very responsive. Very happy with this.

Edit*** this review is coming from a finless boat. I did not have fins before so I don’t have any other systems to compare to other than stock. The boat tracks straight and is much more responsive while turning in both forward and reverse. I was never bothered driving finless before adding these but now I can’t imagine owning a jetboat without fins.

2. Surfing is vastly improved. The wake is clean and has push. The jet wash deflector on the swim ladder cleans things up a bunch. I’m 195 lbs on a crappy board and was able to get slack in my rope. I still need to dial in my ballast and buy a quicker board and I think I will be ropeless, I’m very happy with this.

Edit*** I’m disappointed with my surf results on day two. I’m not sure what I messed up from yesterday but the wake was nowhere near as good today. Can’t imagine this has anything to do with the TVW’s as those are the only things that didn’t change. My guess would be the difference in weight between a full tank of fuel yesterday and a half tank today. My kids had slack in the rope all day but I was dragging myself all over the place trying to find anywhere that would give me some push and couldn’t find it. I think this is more of a testimony to how finicky these boats are to surf behind not a TVW thing.

3. They’re on all the time. Setup time for surfing consists of snapping the jet wash deflector onto the ladder and setting up ballast. This is what pushed me to the TVW’s over the other surf mods. I’m very happy with this aspect.

I think with some small adjustments many of the negatives I’m seeing will be resolved. I don’t think these provide quite as good of surfing results as the other surfing mods (based on videos, I don’t have personal experience with the other products) but it seems that once ballast is properly configured I will have a surfable wake.

 

[mwalker4]

4. I don’t see how this improves anything on plane. At tubing and wakeboard speeds the spray and jet wash are huge! We haven’t pulled tubes yet but I don’t see this providing a dry tube ride. I will update on this later once I pull some tubers.

That makes me sad. I don't care about surfing. I was hoping for something improve low speed steering and reduce spray for tubes and knee boards. To paraphrase Meatloaf, One out of Three ain't bad. (old guy reference)

 

[cbpagent72]

Well after spending most of the day grinding and trying to make things work these obviously will not work it's the brackets have the spring too close and if you move the spring then you'll be covering up the head of the bolt so this part was poorly designed they should not have these tighter tolerances with jet boat pilot admitting that Yamaha's machining is different in many cases. they should allow for a lot looser tolerances and a little more width so fewer people have issues. now I need to remove all this stuff except these expoxied brackets so I can actually go boating tomorrow two days wasted because of the poor design on the equipment.

I like the concept however in reality they just are not ready for primetime it looks like I will not be using these on my boat as they do not fit in I'm not comfortable grinding down everything more than I have.

 

[swatski]

I just spent my first day on the water with the TVW and have mixed feelings on it.

First, my install was issue free. I haven’t had any of the issues that others have had. While tolerances are close everything clears on my ‘18 AR240. I believe I have the latest version, smaller head on the upstop bolt and notched upstop bracket, etc. Mine shipped 7/1.

On the water....

I’ll start with the negatives...
1. Steering is heavier. Not offensively heavy but immediately noticeable and consistently heavy through all speeds. Not thrilled with this but it was expected and if other benefits pan out it’s worth it.

2. Throttle levers are heavy. This is consistent through the entire throttle range. Nothing is catching or obstructing the buckets or cables so I’m not sure what is causing this. Like the steering it’s not offensive but it also is not preferable.

3. My reverse buckets need adjusted. Not sure what during the install caused them to move out of adjustment but neutral now moves me backwards at about 1 mph. Simple adjustment to fix so not a big deal.

4. I don’t see how this improves anything on plane. At tubing and wakeboard speeds the spray and jet wash are huge! We haven’t pulled tubes yet but I don’t see this providing a dry tube ride. I will update on this later once I pull some tubers.

5. I have a noticeable list to port at all speeds above no wake. I used the gauge to adjust the upstops evenly. I think if I either adjust the port side to deflect more downward or decrease the deflection on the starboard side it will even out.

The positives...

1. Steering control at no wake speed is awesome. Steering input is very responsive. Very happy with this.

2. Surfing is vastly improved. The wake is clean and has push. The jet wash deflector on the swim ladder cleans things up a bunch. I’m 195 lbs on a crappy board and was able to get slack in my rope. I still need to dial in my ballast and buy a quicker board and I think I will be ropeless, I’m very happy with this.

3. They’re on all the time. Setup time for surfing consists of snapping the jet wash deflector onto the ladder and setting up ballast. This is what pushed me to the TVW’s over the other surf mods. I’m very happy with this aspect.

I think with some small adjustments many of the negatives I’m seeing will be resolved. I don’t think these provide quite as good of surfing results as the other surfing mods (based on videos, I don’t have personal experience with the other products) but it seems that once ballast is properly configured I will have a surfable wake.

Very informative review!

That is what makes this forum stand out, the no bs reviews and discussions of performance mods (some perennial bickering and an occasional squabble notwithstanding)!
(EDIT: For Everything Else, there is FB!)

As someone who's fairly mod-happy and a frequent customer of all the vendors here (including JBP, Cobra, Gatlin, Ridesteady, Lectrotabs) I love the strait scoop!!!

We constantly look for ways to make the surfing wave better, so any new info on testing new wake surfing gizmos is great!!!!!

As far as no wake steering, I wonder if you are coming off of a fin-less situation or switching from other fin system - TV or Cobras. In other words, is the comparison between TVWs and fin-less or TVWs vs another fin set? If the former - that's not surprising, if the later - I would like to know more!
Also wonder about straight line steering and top speed with TVWs.


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Let me also say this... there are two things that I find curious.

One is the consistent reports of hard steering issues.
I don't recall that being brought forth at anytime during the pre-sale campaign by the maker.
Driver comfort aside, significant amount of added stress on cable linkages and buckets is no doubt a potential maintenance issue, perhaps worse. In non-E boats the reverse/throttle cables can pull the reverse gate back into place against some hindrance (like a minor obstruction of the buckets), but the E-series reverse buckets get snagged in the up position very easily, pushing the engines into a limp mode... in those boats hard steering would make me test the reverse anytime approaching dockage.

The other thing is the spray at tubing/wakeboarding speeds...
WTH? isn't that what was supposed to be the main feature/benefit of this system?
In this context, adjusting the deflectors will effect the list/roll, too, due to "trim effect" of the deflectors (pointing more down = pushing the stern up).

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