Jumper the Clean-Out Hatch Switch???

[danclemo]

With all the Clean-out hatch switch issues I see on here I can't seem to find a thread about jumpering around this stupid thing? I had my out today and there are two wires in (both brown) and two going out (White/Black). Does anyone know the circuit for this, I would like to just hard wire around this and remove this switch. I was hoping it was just one and one out and it would have been no-brainer.

And no, this is not a debate on rather I should jumper this or not....I realize it's a safety issue and I shouldn't, but I'm going too...LOL

Any help appreciated. Thanks.

 

[swatski]

Watching.
I would have jumpered mine already, but I'm afraid they used something akin to lanyard switches in (older) outboards - that I'm used to - which are basically jumper proof...
Hope I'm wrong and someone can show us the way.

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[danclemo]

Hoping someone has answer before I seal up the clean-out port top plate, would like to just jumper while I have that off before I re-silicon it. Looks like a total no-brainer to jumper around, just a little nervous without wiring diagram.

I may just remove it and clamp it closed with hose-clamp around it and just zip tie under the seal plate. I will still be able to get to it through the access holes if something went wrong. Would rather just electrically jump it though, would be very clean and trouble free.

 

[jdonalds]

I wouldn't defeat the switches. Find a way to make them work.

 

[Zeus2013]

I wouldn't defeat the switches. Find a way to make them work.

I completely agree. It just takes one time to stick your hand in with the engines running to ruin you day badly.

 

[Mainah]

I never thought about someone cranking the engine while someone else has a hand down there when I posted in the other thread. That said @danclemo was very clear. One more time though this is dangerous so use at your own risk. It is a switch so use a multimeter to figure out which poles are connected and not connected when the switch is depressed. Then just duplicate those connections.

 

[fireflymedic]

Ya agree if one had to get rid of the safety switchbecause lid or hinges were broke you would have to at least replace them(switches) with on off switches but it is so wet in there they may not last either.

 

[danclemo]

Thanks guys, my perspective on this switch is a little different. The switch cut-out on me today because my kid didn't shut the latch well when putting stuff in that area. So when I hit about 50 mph top speed today the boat come to immediate stop when hitting wave and everyone in boat when flying. Thank goodness no one was hurt, but could have been really bad. I think the switch in not only a reliability issue but is more dangerous than good.

I'm the only one in the family that can even twist that dammed plug out, so no one else will ever be in there. I plan on taking key out of ignition if getting in there. I may even put sticker on underside of hatch that states "Remove Key from Ignition if cleaning port".

Anyhow, thanks again guys. Hoping someone has already done this and can tell me which wires to jump.

 

[HybridSS]

I still think, even when you describe your event above, that defeating this safety interlock it is not justified. Regarding your event above why wouldnt you simply ensure the hatch is fully closed and latches engaged each time and the switch adjusted properly? You should be doing this anyways as the operator of the boat.
When comparing ensuring the hatch is closed properly and latches engaged each time prior to starting the boat VS defeating the switch, writing warnings under the hatch and coaching everyone on the boat not to touch the key plus hoping your ignition switch doesnt internally short some day (which I have had happen) it seems very obvious one of those choices is a much more logical and simple choice. And the results of defeating the switch could be catastrophic.

However it is nice to know how to defeat each safety interlock. I think I will compile a list of all the safety interlocks and how to bypass them and store it in a pouch on my boat along with some pre-made jumpers. Any one of these can strand you in the water with a switch failure.


According the the SX192 manual the plug that connects to the hatch switch should be a 4 pin plug. C D E F.
E and F will have continuity when not pushed and C and D will have continuity when pushed.

 

[HybridSS]

 

[swatski]

@HybridSS So, does the kill switch actually turn off the ignition key when it is pulled off? The older style kill switches, at least in outboards, would ground out the spark plugs.


I will voice my personal opinion here. (No disrespect intended to anyone, just a personal opinion.)

I've not had any issues with the cut-off switches, yet, but would have no problem bypassing those if they start acting up. Coming from running OUTBOARDS for many many years before my love affair with YJBs began, I find this whole discussion of possible catastrophic impact of bypassing the cleanout port switch to be a bit "puerile". After years of minding kids jumping in the water behind my o/b meat-grinder boats, and obsessing with having the motors off whenever that is a possibility, I find the "threat" of the impeller inside the pump tunnel remote.

There are several steps that would need to be recklessly circumnavigated for my arm to be found suckered into that impeller shaft. Most importantly whenever I mess with the cleanouts I don't just rely on the cleanout hatch switches - I MAKE DAMN SURE NO ONE CAN BE MESSING WITH THE IGNITION KEYS WHILE MY HANDS ARE IN THERE.

Regardless, I do believe that over-reliance on so called safety features can sometimes be a hazard all by itself.

Runt over and out.

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[haknslash]

All I know is it would certainly suck if the engine cutout for any reason while at speed. You lose control and these things will go wherever they want on a rough day with no thrust!! I'm glad nobody was hurt @danclemo

 

[danclemo]

I still think, even when you describe your event above, that defeating this safety interlock it is not justified. Regarding your event above why wouldnt you simply ensure the hatch is fully closed and latches engaged each time and the switch adjusted properly? You should be doing this anyways as the operator of the boat.
When comparing ensuring the hatch is closed properly and latches engaged each time prior to starting the boat VS defeating the switch, writing warnings under the hatch and coaching everyone on the boat not to touch the key plus hoping your ignition switch doesnt internally short some day (which I have had happen) it seems very obvious one of those choices is a much more logical and simple choice. And the results of defeating the switch could be catastrophic.

However it is nice to know how to defeat each safety interlock. I think I will compile a list of all the safety interlocks and how to bypass them and store it in a pouch on my boat along with some pre-made jumpers. Any one of these can strand you in the water with a switch failure.


According the the SX192 manual the plug that connects to the hatch switch should be a 4 pin plug. C D E F.
E and F will have continuity when not pushed and C and D will have continuity when pushed.

Thanks for input, appreciate help. I may put a hook on underside of locker to hang ignition keys....LOL.

 

[HybridSS]

Thanks for input, appreciate help. I may put a hook on underside of locker to hang ignition keys....LOL.

LOL...You would probably just lose your key. Anyways...what i posted above is just to be a Devils Advocate. We all assess risks and have differing capabilities. I have a tractor that has every safety on it defeated. I assess the risk and decided its ok for me to operate. But I never let anyone else use it or borrow it. If you were not intimately familiar with its operation it would be quite dangerous. Most of the safeties on the SX192 I find to be just fine. And if they operate reliably for years and then finally break i will likely just replace them. But if any of them become problematic and decrease reliability I have no issues bypassing them.

As for the operation of the switch I looked for a full wire diagram but the manual I have does not have any great comprehensive diagrams. But from the break out of the switch it appears the operation of the switch it two fold and required two sets of contacts. I think this was necessary because you not only need to kill the engine once the hatch is opened, but you need to prevent starter engagement since the impeller is direct drive.
With the switch pushed in pins C and D are made allowing starter engagement.
With the switch out pins E and F are made and likely send a signal to the ECM to kill ignition.

It seems to bypass all you would need to do is leave the plug disconnected and jumper C to D. Easy enough to test. If someone gets to it before me please confirm.

 

[swatski]

But from the break out of the switch it appears the operation of the switch it two fold and required two sets of contacts. I think this was necessary because you not only need to kill the engine once the hatch is opened, but you need to prevent starter engagement since the impeller is direct drive.
With the switch pushed in pins C and D are made allowing starter engagement.
With the switch out pins E and F are made and likely send a signal to the ECM to kill ignition.

It seems to bypass all you would need to do is leave the plug disconnected and jumper C to D.

This is the best explanation of how do these switches work that I have ever seen. Thank you!
Hope I never have to mess with those, but if I do - this is VERY useful.

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[Julian]

Seems to me that a better way to ensure that you don't have an unlatched clean out tray is to teach the kids how to close it, or not allow them in there in the first place. In the 15 years driving 3 different jetboats with cleanout tray safety switches I've never had a problem with them. Only occasionally do we have people post about the switches being misaligned...and that is an easy fix. It is a pretty basic and simple safety feature, and I get that it might seem stupid to need it, but I also don't how it would be easier to disable it than it would be to teach people to not touch it! I'd change the latch for one with a key as a last resort....but I'd start with a sit down session with the kids first...learning about Darwinism is important!

 

[danclemo]

LOL...You would probably just lose your key. Anyways...what i posted above is just to be a Devils Advocate. We all assess risks and have differing capabilities. I have a tractor that has every safety on it defeated. I assess the risk and decided its ok for me to operate. But I never let anyone else use it or borrow it. If you were not intimately familiar with its operation it would be quite dangerous. Most of the safeties on the SX192 I find to be just fine. And if they operate reliably for years and then finally break i will likely just replace them. But if any of them become problematic and decrease reliability I have no issues bypassing them.

As for the operation of the switch I looked for a full wire diagram but the manual I have does not have any great comprehensive diagrams. But from the break out of the switch it appears the operation of the switch it two fold and required two sets of contacts. I think this was necessary because you not only need to kill the engine once the hatch is opened, but you need to prevent starter engagement since the impeller is direct drive.
With the switch pushed in pins C and D are made allowing starter engagement.
With the switch out pins E and F are made and likely send a signal to the ECM to kill ignition.

It seems to bypass all you would need to do is leave the plug disconnected and jumper C to D. Easy enough to test. If someone gets to it before me please confirm.

Yeah, I could see my keys falling down the clean out port and into the water....LOL.

I'm pretty dammed good mechanically, but poor electronically. I wish the wiring diagram included colors of the wires. There are two BROWN wires coming in from one side, and one BLACK and one WHITE the other side. Seems like just removing switch and connecting the wires in directly would serve to fix this, but with out colors and diagram not sure. I can do the continuity check and probably figure it out.

Thanks again. May just end leaving the switch there. I am curious if all the folks that suggest not removing switch for safety reasons keep the Lanyards on their wrist while driving boat 100% of the time...LOL. Seriously though, thanks everyone for the help and suggestions. happy boating.

 

[HybridSS]

I havent looked at the plug in my boat yet but you should be able to figure out the pins by looking at that picture. On either side there are two keyways and on the top should be the clip. If you orient it exactly as the picture shows, looking directly at it, you should be able to identify which pins are which. Take a picture of your plug and post it.

 

[ripler]

I read somewhere else that connecting the brown wires together will jumper the hatch switch to the closed position and the black and white are to prove the hatch has opened. If they are using the black and white to send a signal to the ECM saying the hatch is open don't start the engine, this is really concerning to me since it's not fail safe. Ideally when you open the hatch you would want the contact to open and remove the signal from the ECM and shutdown the engine, if you would cut or lose a wire the circuit would be the same as opening the hatch shutting the engine down. I figured they were using the 2 contacts to sense the hatch opening and closing to prevent someone bypassing the switches since the switches are proven to open and close. It's going to be interesting to me to see if this is the way that the switches really operate.

 

[danclemo]

Well, I ran out of time and just kept switch for now. I sealed up the clean-out cover plate well with Marine Silicon since there have been a lot of threads about it being poorly sealed from factory.