Second battery.

[Noko]

I'm looking at having the dealer put in a second battery and dual battery charger. They will put in a 6 amp charger. If I want a 10 amp, it would be an additional $100. Any thoughts on 6amp vs 10? My boat is going to be on a small lake not more than 10 minutes from the house.

 

[davel501]

What is the total cost? What are they putting in for switch, charger, wiring and battery? What makes you want a second battery - piece of mind or accessories?

 

[Noko]

What is the total cost? What are they putting in for switch, charger, wiring and battery? What makes you want a second battery - piece of mind or accessories?

Cost for a second batt, dual 6amp charger, switch for two batts., was $650. Another $100 for the 10 amp. Its not that I can't do it myself, this is just one thing I want done right because I think the wrong installation could really mess things up. My boat is a brand new 2013 AR240. I plan on keeping it for a long time. I would like the extra battery for future upgrades.

 

[Magic]

Cost for a second batt, dual 6amp charger, switch for two batts., was $650. Another $100 for the 10 amp. Its not that I can't do it myself, this is just one thing I want done right because I think the wrong installation could really mess things up. My boat is a brand new 2013 AR240. I plan on keeping it for a long time. I would like the extra battery for future upgrades.

Wow, I know you want it done right, but one diagram and about 250$ in material would have done the job too.

I do appreciate the convenience of having it done by a pro, its just that I really don't trust anybody else to work on my boat now, except my old crew chief who is a wizard with a toolbox..and a blender....and a barbecue....and I trust him with my life, and maybe my boat...still...

 

[Magic]

I really didn't mean to sound negative in the above post, so if i did, please forgive me.... I like doing my own work so I can fix whatever happens down the road on the boat (and The Girl! ).... That being said, I always have my truck serviced at the dealer cause i don't care to do that work, and the dealer stands behind the work done....

 

[Noko]

I really didn't mean to sound negative in the above post, so if i did, please forgive me.... I like doing my own work so I can fix whatever happens down the road on the boat (and The Girl! ).... That being said, I always have my truck serviced at the dealer cause i don't care to do that work, and the dealer stands behind the work done....

I didn't take it as negative. I know its not a cheap price to get it done, but if the dealer does the work, its backed up by them if anything goes wrong. Its also a time vs cost issue. I don't have the boat yet, so I haven't got a chance to look it over and figure out what I want to do myself and what I want to pay for. Putting in the second battery with the charger, even if its expensive, looks like something I'm willing to pay for. I'm just trying to figure out whether to go with a 6amp charger or 10 amp charger.

 

[MikeyL]

Please ask what they mean by "6 amps" or "10 amps."
At THAT price (low) it is more than likely 3 AMPS PER BANK (or 5 amps per bank).
In my humble opinion, those numbers (above) are wayyyyy too low if you use the radio a lot out on the Lake. And then it's a Holiday weekend ... and you are going back out the next day ... with a discharged battery.
So if it were me, I would pay MORE for a quality charger ......... 1 that can maintain as well as charge the batteries.
And as usual, I recommend the Minn Kota brand, as it has a string reputation of DELIVERING of what it promises, unlike a lot of brands.
Good Luck and let us know the outcome.
Mikey Lulejian - Lake Oconee, GA

 

[Noko]

Please ask what they mean by "6 amps" or "10 amps."
At THAT price (low) it is more than likely 3 AMPS PER BANK (or 5 amps per bank).
In my humble opinion, those numbers (above) are wayyyyy too low if you use the radio a lot out on the Lake. And then it's a Holiday weekend ... and you are going back out the next day ... with a discharged battery.
So if it were me, I would pay MORE for a quality charger ......... 1 that can maintain as well as charge the batteries.
And as usual, I recommend the Minn Kota brand, as it has a string reputation of DELIVERING of what it promises, unlike a lot of brands.
Good Luck and let us know the outcome.
Mikey Lulejian - Lake Oconee, GA

Mike, not sure what you mean by the low price? Its $650 to install a switch, extra batt. and a 6 amp charger, $750 total with a 10amp charger. Are you saying that's a low price for it all? I'll ask about the charger and whether its 3amp a side. Thanks for that info.

 

[MikeyL]

Sorry. I thought you meant $100 "Total.". Somehow, the items and work involved seem GROSSLY over-priced. Simply my opinion.
For THAT kind of money, I would DEMAND a Minn Kota 220D - @ 10 amps per bank, 20 amps total. And an Optima BLUE AGM-type battery !!!!!!
ALl I can say is "WOW." Wishing you good luck.

 

[Julian]

Their cost for materials is probably $200, then $450 in labor (2 hours @ $225/hour). I too would expect a 20amp charger for that. This is a pretty simple project for them, so for that price it had better look immaculate (flush mount the switch, wire wrap on on all the wires).

As for your question, @ChargerGuy says that a larger capacity charger charges a battery better....(I'm no expert on this subject). I think I'd ask them to do the larger one for the same price, or ask for a price breakdown (then see what they are actually charging you for the parts! You might find that it would save you $100 to take them the charger and have them install it!)

 

[Noko]

Thanks Julian.

 

[Island Jay]

If I may, I have 20 amp dual bank chargers for $100.I have 10-15 amp chargers for $70-85 as well.
I can take about 8-10 % off the ebay price for a direct sale. Please check them out at this link.

Got a question? Feel free to call or message me.
thanks!
Jason

 

[Noko]

I got an update from what type of charger the dealer uses. Its either a 12 or 20 amp Minnkota charger.

 

[Island Jay]

They are good chargers. Just make sure you are not over paying.
FYI if you have AGMS you should have 8-10 amps ( or more ) per bank.

 

[davel501]

So there is a bit more to know about battery chargers and our boats than most folks think initially. It really matters what kind of switch you are putting in and with what charger. If you are using one of the stock switches with the BEP DVSR and a dual bank smart charger you could be turning your smart charger dumb. The DVSR parallels the batteries when one of them hits 12.7v to charge the house battery when the engines are running. The DVSR is dual sensing so the first battery to hit that threshold will cause the banks to combine, possibly sending bulk charging from the smart charger meant for one battery to both batteries. This does not hurt the charger but does not help the batteries either. If you are using a single bank charger then this is no big deal because you are counting on this happening anyway.

Here is the write-up for I did for my boat: http://yamahajetboaters.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58251. This was one of those projects where every time I learned something new I had to order more parts.

 

[Noko]

Thanks Dave for the good info.

 

[tdonoughue]

@Noko I understand what you say about having it done right and someone standing behind it. I am more of a do-it-myself type (as are several on the board).

That said, I think as long as you know how much you are paying for that convenience and service and you are good with that, that is fine. I think the $650 does sound high, but as @Julian noted, if the job is going to be immaculate or they are going to do extra finishing touches (like the charging light on the helm or detail your boat with the job, or whatever), it may not be too high.

Best of luck and be sure to report back on what you decide, along with pics!

 

[Noko]

TDon, I like to DIY, I've done plenty of house plumbing and wiring, etc. But if I made a mistake on my house, it was easy to cover and fix. I know putting in a battery and charger isn't probably that hard, but , I think like most here, I want it done right and to look good. I can pretty much guarantee that the dealer will do it right and make it look sharp. The guys I'm dealing with are a big dealer in Minn, so they should have their stuff together. I was pricing Minn Kota 20 amp dual chargers and they are about, $200, I figure a deep cycle battery is about $150, and that's a wag. The switch is about $35 and add the wiring. So its about $400 for parts or more my guess. Labor as quoted by Julian above is pricey so I don't think the price is too out of line. And if I'm paying maybe $100-200 too much, its worth it to me since I won't have to spend my time running around, trying to get everything set up. The boat is going to be at our summer home and I don't have much of a workshop set up yet to really do much boat work anyways.

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

 

[Island Jay]

So there is a bit more to know about battery chargers and our boats than most folks think initially. It really matters what kind of switch you are putting in and with what charger. If you are using one of the stock switches with the BEP DVSR and a dual bank smart charger you could be turning your smart charger dumb. The DVSR parallels the batteries when one of them hits 12.7v to charge the house battery when the engines are running. The DVSR is dual sensing so the first battery to hit that threshold will cause the banks to combine, possibly sending bulk charging from the smart charger meant for one battery to both batteries. This does not hurt the charger but does not help the batteries either. If you are using a single bank charger then this is no big deal because you are counting on this happening anyway.

Here is the write-up for I did for my boat: http://yamahajetboaters.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58251. This was one of those projects where every time I learned something new I had to order more parts.

The only problem I could see here with a single bank charger charging two batteries is the specs on the charger. Some chargers cannot charge 2x12, even in parallel. ProSport and XPS models come to mind. Regardless of what other things are doing with your charger, just make sure it will meet the specs.

 

[David Analog]

An ACR/VSR causing a dual bank charger to send a bulk charge to a fully charged battery and create an over-charge scenario may be just a bit extreme. This is somewhat self-regulating with a good ACR/VSR. If the stronger battery bank were to be above the combining threshold then the presence of another depleted bank in parallel would instantly drop the sensed voltage and re-open the ACR/VSR for a prescribed time interval. Also, once the two shore charging banks are circumvented by the closing ACR/VSR, then the bulk of the current will take the path of the lowest impedance which is the depleted bank. The behavior in this case isn't much different from the alternator or stator when underway and two battery banks of different charge levels are fed by the same charging system. But it is a shame to turn a smart charger into a blunt charger with not much more of a fine touch than an alternator/stator. It's virtually impossible to devise a perfect charging system when one alternator/stator is often connected to two battery banks, whether in a boat, car or RV.
With a large audio system combined with a large battery A/H capacity combined with deep cycling at rest combined with a lite boat charging system (Yamaha), combined with an ACR/VSR, you have greatly increased your dependency on shore charging since there are going to be times when the ACR/VSR is not going to close out on the water. And, there may be times that the stereo bank will never see a charge again until it sees the shore charger.
I completely agree that you have got to have a dual bank charger and a scheme to keep the ACR/VSR fixed 'open' while in storage so the charger can profile and service each bank independently. This may not be as critical when the house bank only had to service a fishfinder at rest and the depletion was minimal. But once you cross over into big audio systems and big battery reserves you really need isolated shore charging and the ACR/VSR scheme needs to support this.