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The Vaccine

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I wonder if its because they are always passing around the joint or vape pen? Sure would seem like a great way to spread disease.
I'm guessing it's like alcohol, behavioral. "You see every drink of liquor you take kills a thousand brain cells. Now that doesn't much matter 'cos we got billions more. And first the sadness cells die so you smile real big. And then the quiet cells go so you just say everything real loud for no reason at all. That'ok, that's ok because the stupid cells go next, so everything you say is real smart. And finally, come the memory cells. These are tough sons of b*tches to kill." Rannulph Junnah, The Legend of Bagger Vance
 
Question: How are these new Mandatory Vaccine Policies supposed to stamp out Covid-19 when we're now actively re-distributing and spreading hundreds of thousands of Unvaccinated/Non-Tested/Non-quarantined people coming across the border to all corners of the country? If we truly believe that this pandemic is so deadly, how would we respond to those that are now saying this is equivalent to the smallpox laced blankets distributed to the Native Americans?
 
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Question: How are these new Mandatory Vaccine Policies supposed to stamp out Covid-19 when we're now actively re-distributing and spreading hundreds of thousands of Unvaccinated/Non-Tested/Non-quarantined people coming across the border to all corners of the country? If we truly believe that this pandemic is so deadly, how would we respond to those that are now saying this is equivalent to the smallpox laced blankets distributed to the Native Americans?
I assume covid will be added to our immigration policy (surprised it hasn't been yet)

 
In a recent interview from the last Haitian invasion the director of homeland security said they weren’t testing them or vaccinating them. So there’s that lol. They say another 60-80k are headed here.
 
In other news. Our hospital covid numbers are way down. From mid 100s to 30s

Sad story this week. I'm taking care of a lovely elderly lady who is very sick with covid. She got it by taking care of her husband who cought it first. Her husband died two days ago at another hospital. They are both unvaxxed because they were afraid about all the things they read online about the vaccines. Sadly it was a bunch of misinformation. That's why some of us are so passionate when it comes to fight back against vaccine bullshit. She probably won't make it. Two more deaths that could've been prevented.
 
In other news. Our hospital covid numbers are way down. From mid 100s to 30s

Sad story this week. I'm taking care of a lovely elderly lady who is very sick with covid. She got it by taking care of her husband who cought it first. Her husband died two days ago at another hospital. They are both unvaxxed because they were afraid about all the things they read online about the vaccines. Sadly it was a bunch of misinformation. That's why some of us are so passionate when it comes to fight back against vaccine bullshit. She probably won't make it. Two more deaths that could've been prevented.

"Two more deaths that could've been prevented." - Not a fact.

"Sadly it was a bunch of misinformation" - Not a fact. Side affects are real.

In any case we recommended our elderly relatives to be vaccinated.

Fuel to fire (one for each vaccine)

 
"Two more deaths that could've been prevented." - Not a fact.

Based on the data we have seen so far, where deaths due to covid are significantly reduced in the vaccinated population, It seems certain and worth betting on that it is very very likely that if they had been vaccinated, their death rate would be hugely reduced. In the order of 99% +. Why do you think it's not factual that if these 2 random elderly deaths had vaccinated they would not have died of covid? When added to a pool of 1000, only 5 out of that 1000 would have died.


Why is that not a fact to you? Based on data from Texas, they would have very likely lived if vaccinated.

Over 180,000,000 vaccinated in US, so I feel pretty confident about it's safety so far, based on how many are exposed and how many report no long term effect, and if it was going to mess you up, it does so most when you first get it, it's less and less likely there is any harm caused with every passing day. To me, those are very very good odds. So the immediate immunity likely eventually wanes, but when vaccinated covid mostly doesn't send you to the hospital, and it mostly doesn't kill you...what's your point?

Genuinely interested in your opinion on these specific questions, Specially your statement that the statement above was "Not a fact" . I'd like to learn why after seeing the info available you think it's not likely that dead unvaccinated elderly people would have survived if vaccinated.


I leave you with a thought I was recently made aware of, that I very much liked....We cannot change the past to make a different present, but the current present is the past of the future. Changes in our actions now will change the future.
 
Based on the data we have seen so far, where deaths due to covid are significantly reduced in the vaccinated population, It seems certain and worth betting on that it is very very likely that if they had been vaccinated, their death rate would be hugely reduced. In the order of 99% +. Why do you think it's not factual that if these 2 random elderly deaths had vaccinated they would not have died of covid? When added to a pool of 1000, only 5 out of that 1000 would have died.


Why is that not a fact to you? Based on data from Texas, they would have very likely lived if vaccinated.

Over 180,000,000 vaccinated in US, so I feel pretty confident about it's safety so far, based on how many are exposed and how many report no long term effect, and if it was going to mess you up, it does so most when you first get it, it's less and less likely there is any harm caused with every passing day. To me, those are very very good odds. So the immediate immunity likely eventually wanes, but when vaccinated covid mostly doesn't send you to the hospital, and it mostly doesn't kill you...what's your point?

Genuinely interested in your opinion on these specific questions, Specially your statement that the statement above was "Not a fact" . I'd like to learn why after seeing the info available you think it's not likely that dead unvaccinated elderly people would have survived if vaccinated.


I leave you with a thought I was recently made aware of, that I very much liked....We cannot change the past to make a different present, but the current present is the past of the future. Changes in our actions now will change the future.

The odds of them dying may be reduced. But it is not 100% guarantee they wouldn't have died. Your numbers, in general, work the same without vaccine. The odds of catching and dying from COVID are in that less than 1% ballpark mentioned above. Based on your logic, it would be a fact they would survive.
 
...Your numbers, in general, work the same without vaccine. The odds of catching and dying from COVID are in that less than 1% ballpark mentioned above. Based on your logic, it would be a fact they would survive.

Nope, Totally disagree.

I'm comparing DEAD vaccinated vs DEAD unvaccinated. We KNOW that they died of COVID, we can't move them out to another group with less details and more chance to survive to learn more. We have to place them in the group we know they belong to, that has the most detail about their condition.

As in, what are the chances they might have died from abortion early on? we KNOW the chance was zero, because it did not happen. We KNOW their rate of certain DEATH from covid was 100%, because it happened.

Again, VERY SPECIFIC to these 2 random people unvaccinated that DIED of Covid. (or Any 2 of the 8000+ dead in Texas without vaccination) Do you not agree there is 99.5% chance they would have survived based on the Texas data we have, if they had vaccinated? (Knowing nothing else about them)
 
Nope, Totally disagree.

I'm comparing DEAD vaccinated vs DEAD unvaccinated. We KNOW that they died of COVID, we can't move them out to another group with less details and more chance to survive to learn more. We have to place them in the group we know they belong to, that has the most detail about their condition.

As in, what are the chances they might have died from abortion early on? we KNOW the chance was zero, because it did not happen. We KNOW their rate of certain DEATH from covid was 100%, because it happened.

Again, VERY SPECIFIC to these 2 random people unvaccinated that DIED of Covid. (or Any 2 of the 8000+ dead in Texas without vaccination) Do you not agree there is 99.5% chance they would have survived based on the Texas data we have, if they had vaccinated? (Knowing nothing else about them)

This is the point!

We KNOW these two people caught the virus and died from it. For whatever reason their makeup predisposed them to a bad outcome. So introducing into the debate that there is a low probability of them catching and dying from the disease is pointless. WE KNOW they caught it and were predisposed to dying from it.

We also KNOW that in that class of people (those who are predisposed to catching it) that a vaccinated person has a (85?-)99.5% chance of NOT DYING from it.

This is the logic that people, for whatever reason, don't get. And I think they don't get it because of people posting in social media about:
  • Bad logical arguments like the one above that says the vaccines don't work - THEY DO, and the DATA PROVES it, without a shadow of a doubt.
  • Bad data around adverse reactions to the vaccine - good meaning people who take VAERS data and spread bullshit fear. Like the one I saw on FB the other day. Pointed to the data from VAERS that showed that 100,000 people have died since getting vaccinated!!!! OH MY GOD!!!! ITS KILLING PEOPLE!!!! Oh wait....you have to actually understand the data in order to leap to that conclusion! When you vaccinate 100 million people, .0001 of those people will die each month - vaccinated or not (I'm making up the numbers from memory-but that is the gist of it) or 10,000/month will die - just normally every month. So over 10 months of vaccinations - YUP - 100,000 die naturally. But when you use the data without knowledge, you sure can scare people with a basic statement (that is 100% true, but absolute bullshit when you put a bad spin on it).
  • Playing into people simple fear of needles.
  • Playing into their political affiliation (politics and healthcare should never be bedfellows for either side)
What is fascinating is that many of those posting bad arguments or conspiracy theories have been vaccinated. I'm baffled by why they are vaccinated, or why they rail against it....is it just a trendy thing to be against? Peer pressure? Group think? Bizarre to me.....and deadly for those that drink the juice (and don't realize that what they are reading is just somone's desire to tow a peer group's line of bad logic).
 
This is the logic that people, for whatever reason, don't get. And I think they don't get it because of people posting in social media about:
Casting the blame on social media posts is much less supported by facts than an overall distrust in the government and main stream media by the majority of the American public.
 
Nothing in medicine is ever 100% other than death. Stop using that as an argument.

In this particular case absolutely it was social media misinformation. She told me.

I stand by my assertion. This could have been prevented. The chances of them making it would have been wayyyy higher if they had not been subjected and believed the social media misinformation.
 
Nothing in medicine is ever 100% other than death. Stop using that as an argument.

In this particular case absolutely it was social media misinformation. She told me.

I stand by my assertion. This could have been prevented. The chances of them making it would have been wayyyy higher if they had not been subjected and believed the social media misinformation.
I wouldn't argue that at all. Although the social media misinformation is likely a direct result of an earned distrust of government and main stream media - a symptom, not the cause.
 
This is the logic that people, for whatever reason, don't get. And I think they don't get it because of people posting in social media about:

Or maybe they do and just use social media to express their viewpoint. Has anyone seen this new video? A young man is trying to explain why the black community is so hesitant towards vaccines and the medical community.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446222569628184580
 
Casting the blame on social media posts is much less supported by facts than an overall distrust in the government and main stream media by the majority of the American public.
I don't disagree, but with the advent of social media, it is clear that these entrenched positions will only become more entrenched. The whistle blower revelations about Facebook do not surprise me one bit. This isn't the first flag thrown on the field about social media companies and what is good for them vs good for people.

Before this whistleblower there were already major concerns about whether or not we should write software that is intentionally addictive. We (me being in software) intentionally make a product who's goal is to keep people using it (addition). The more they use....the more money we make. It is a terrible problem for which there is NO solution - other than getting counseling to understand and realize one's addictions and to actively try and stop.

This forum is built on Xenforo - it has features intended to addict its users.

The latest whistle blower claims that Facebook would show more and more violent material to people who read violent material. It keeps them on (addicted). But it also fans violence. Good for society? Probably not.

The same for anti vax or pro vax - or you name it. You show you are going to read a particular topic - FB will feed you more of it......(which in one's mind is translated to.....there is LOTS of stuff supporting this). It feeds confirmation bias.

So yes, I do believe social media has a lot of blame in fanning the polarization of people's perspectives.

Now....go look at how many likes you have....and how many posts....and who's replied to your posts.....and STAY HERE.....We love you and profit from you being here (oh wait....no we don't....but we COULD.....

That said, we love seeing that this forum flourishes....but what do we do about fanning the flames of confirmation bias? This is why we've not wanted to silence this thread. We have nothing to gain from the outcome. But if it counters the endless support of confirmation bias one tiny bit....why not. Some would say - don't bother - I prefer a good debate. And I love one of the things that @Evil Sports posted - something like -" if we all would type like we were talking to the person in front of us - this discussion would be more civil". I've actually walked away from posting in this thread for days at a time - but I'm drawn back when it gets back into interesting topics.

Sorry for the lengthy spew LOL.....
 
I don't disagree, but with the advent of social media, it is clear that these entrenched positions will only become more entrenched. The whistle blower revelations about Facebook do not surprise me one bit. This isn't the first flag thrown on the field about social media companies and what is good for them vs good for people.

Before this whistleblower there were already major concerns about whether or not we should write software that is intentionally addictive. We (me being in software) intentionally make a product who's goal is to keep people using it (addition). The more they use....the more money we make. It is a terrible problem for which there is NO solution - other than getting counseling to understand and realize one's addictions and to actively try and stop.

This forum is built on Xenforo - it has features intended to addict its users.

The latest whistle blower claims that Facebook would show more and more violent material to people who read violent material. It keeps them on (addicted). But it also fans violence. Good for society? Probably not.

The same for anti vax or pro vax - or you name it. You show you are going to read a particular topic - FB will feed you more of it......(which in one's mind is translated to.....there is LOTS of stuff supporting this). It feeds confirmation bias.

So yes, I do believe social media has a lot of blame in fanning the polarization of people's perspectives.

Now....go look at how many likes you have....and how many posts....and who's replied to your posts.....and STAY HERE.....We love you and profit from you being here (oh wait....no we don't....but we COULD.....

That said, we love seeing that this forum flourishes....but what do we do about fanning the flames of confirmation bias? This is why we've not wanted to silence this thread. We have nothing to gain from the outcome. But if it counters the endless support of confirmation bias one tiny bit....why not. Some would say - don't bother - I prefer a good debate. And I love one of the things that @Evil Sports posted - something like -" if we all would type like we were talking to the person in front of us - this discussion would be more civil". I've actually walked away from posting in this thread for days at a time - but I'm drawn back when it gets back into interesting topics.

Sorry for the lengthy spew LOL.....
Good write up, Julian! I participate in online forums, and avoid the cesspools that are FB, Twitter, etc - they're both a cancer and a blessing. I think we agree on this, as well as a desire to challenge confirmation bias.

Cheers!
 
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