The Vaccine

[Julian]

Full on fake news. That report is comparing COVID deaths to line of duty deaths, not total deaths, and offers no supporting data.

Not full on fake news. News you don't like the spin on, but 100% valid data. Covid is (thankfully) being considered a line of duty death. The premise being, if they had been able to quarantine like so many have, they wouldn't have caught it, and wouldn't have subsequently died. So 100% accurate data. More police have died from covid than any other line of duty cause. FACT.

Sorry you don't like the facts, but that is like not liking the sunrise....doesn't matter as its not going to change.

 

[Julian]

That's the biggest pile of crap.
The forum software is not AI and can't interpret words like Brandon as a political statement unless you purposely flag them. The lies and censorship keep getting more creative.

We don't allow partisan politics and put into the forum censor system phrases like the one you put in your signature. Frankly we should have given you a warning for that, but didn't. It was an intentional baiting (again) and blatant rule violation. If you want to keep winning about how we are "censoring" your violation of the rules, feel free to do so (violate the rules) and we'll keep giving warnings.

Or just ignore this thread with the feature we provided you. Quite simple.

 

[Lurch]

Not full on fake news. News you don't like the spin on, but 100% valid data. Covid is (thankfully) being considered a line of duty death. The premise being, if they had been able to quarantine like so many have, they wouldn't have caught it, and wouldn't have subsequently died. So 100% accurate data. More police have died from covid than any other line of duty cause. FACT.

Sorry you don't like the facts, but that is like not liking the sunrise....doesn't matter as its not going to change.

Lol, you agree with the spin, so therefore the data is 100% accurate. Was there any contract tracing done to determine that these cases resulted from on-duty activity? Man - there is a lack of skepticism and logic in here.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Lol, you agree with the spin, so therefore the data is 100% accurate. Was there any contract tracing done to determine that these cases resulted from on-duty activity? Man - there is a lack of skepticism and logic in here.

Whatever fits the narrative....

 

[tabbibus]

 

[MidnightRider]

I’m guessing at least some of us in this thread would be dead were it not for products from big pharma. Take what they say with a grain of salt and educate yourself to the extent possible, but they aren’t just pure evil all around.

60,000 vioxx deaths is absolutely an outrage, but a few hundred thousand from covid isn’t anything to be concerned about, or a hoax, or overstated because “my friends cousins barber got in a motorcycle crash and they called it covid…”

Should we have no FDA? No government? Just create our own medicine with our internet knowledge? Maybe let “God’s will” take us if we get diabetes or an infection or pneumonia? I’m not sure where this logic goes.

This logic goes to the fact that we need to give people the CHOICE especially when it comes to medications, which will always have risk. New breakthroughs in medicine are essential but also will always come with a risk. We do need oversight (FDA/governemnt) but that oversight will never be infallible. Its outrageous for government and corporations to force a choice that contains health risks (no matter how small) on someone at the threat of loosing their livelihood. I think if you look for the logic in close to all the negative posts on this thread you will find that it is not based on getting rid of Big Pharma, medicine, vaccines, FDA, government - its based on the eroding of our right take the information provided and make our own choices in regards to medicine, vaccines and our health. New medicine and medical technology is great, we need these innovations and advances, but participation has always been and should always be voluntary. Threats of loosing your livelihood for not participating is an eroding of this principle.

 

[Beachbummer]

You have no choice on Tuberculosis or Mental Illness for example. (treated or restrained against your will) Not the same for sure, but not that different. Vaccines are ALREADY mandatory for many jobs. I am unconvinced by your argument that all medical treatment is always voluntary.

I can understand an argument that says this is a sliding scale and the risk reward does not in your opinion reach the threshold to demand such an action (I would disagree, but at least it would be a reasonable position), but that's not what you are arguing, instead stating instead treatment is always voluntary, therefore, this is WRONG. That argument falls flat. Government does tell you already how to behave (no screaming in public or behaving like maniac, or they take your freedom away for disorderly conduct for example), how to dress, who can work, what taxes you owe, and what medical treatment is mandatory for many activities. Are all those also wrong? (Perhaps you think so and would prefer a more libertarian society, but it's not the one we live on right now., That would be a much bigger topic, good for another off topic thread)

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Fully approved by the FDA as safe and effective.

Timeline: The Rise and Fall of Vioxx

Five years after Vioxx's launch in 1999, Merck withdrew the drug from the market. By that time, Merck had sold billions of dollars worth of the painkiller worldwide.

www.npr.org

Speaking as a private citizen, we are, fortunately, not in the same drug post-approval regulatory environment we were in in 1999. Here is an article from the New England Journal of Medicine, The FDA Amendments Act of 2007 — Assessing Its Effects a Decade Later, discussing some of the changes.

Here is an excerpt from the article: "Responding to these concerns in the post-Vioxx era, Congress used the 2007 renewal of FDA user-fee legislation to make seminal reforms in the management of data on drug effects. The resulting FDA Amendments Act (FDAAA) instructed the FDA to build a population-based surveillance system to harness the enormous reservoir of data on medication use and clinical events generated automatically during routine electronic recording of filled prescriptions and virtually all other medical encounters. The FDAAA also increased the FDA’s power to require manufacturers to conduct postapproval studies, such as by giving it authority to impose monetary penalties for noncompliance. The Act further required that information on the design of all clinical trials be recorded in a public database, ClinicalTrials.gov, soon after a trial’s inception, and it set in motion rulemaking to require that summary results also be included in the database within 12 months after the trial’s primary completion date. The law also mandated the implementation of risk evaluation and mitigation strategies (REMS) which can require physician certification, mandatory risk communications, or laboratory testing when specific high-risk medications are used. "

Jim

 

[AZMark]

I think if you look for the logic in close to all the negative posts on this thread you will find that it is not based on getting rid of Big Pharma, medicine, vaccines, FDA, government - its based on the eroding of our right take the information provided and make our own choices…

Yes, I agree and see that in the thread and I understand that position. Some seem to forget what they’re mad about, or maybe they’re just mad about everything, or stirring the pot for entertainment.

 

[Evil Sports]

"The erosion of our rights take the information provided and make our own choices in regards to medicine, vaccines and our health. New medicine and medical technology is great, we need these innovations and advances, but participation has always been and should always be voluntary. Threats of loosing your livelihood for not participating is an erosion of this principle."

 

[Bruce]

That's the biggest pile of crap.
The forum software is not AI and can't interpret words like Brandon as a political statement unless you purposely flag them. The lies and censorship keep getting more creative.

Our forum has had a clearly stated prohibition of political content since 2014.

https://jetboaters.net/threads/politics-religion-and-other-volatile-topics.1801/

Please stop posting political and off topic content.

 

[BigN8]

Speaking as a private citizen, we are, fortunately, not in the same drug post-approval regulatory environment we were in in 1999. Here is an article from the New England Journal of Medicine, The FDA Amendments Act of 2007 — Assessing Its Effects a Decade Later, discussing some of the changes.

Here is an excerpt from the article: "Responding to these concerns in the post-Vioxx era, Congress used the 2007 renewal of FDA user-fee legislation to make seminal reforms in the management of data on drug effects. The resulting FDA Amendments Act (FDAAA) instructed the FDA to build a population-based surveillance system to harness the enormous reservoir of data on medication use and clinical events generated automatically during routine electronic recording of filled prescriptions and virtually all other medical encounters. The FDAAA also increased the FDA’s power to require manufacturers to conduct postapproval studies, such as by giving it authority to impose monetary penalties for noncompliance. The Act further required that information on the design of all clinical trials be recorded in a public database, ClinicalTrials.gov, soon after a trial’s inception, and it set in motion rulemaking to require that summary results also be included in the database within 12 months after the trial’s primary completion date. The law also mandated the implementation of risk evaluation and mitigation strategies (REMS) which can require physician certification, mandatory risk communications, or laboratory testing when specific high-risk medications are used. "

Jim

Non of that gives me any reassurance that the government is looking out for me. What you really need to look at is that Merck knew prior to the release of the drug that the drug caused blood clots and stroke and lied about to to the FDA prior to the approval and release to the public. The same can be said for the Opioid epidemic we face from Purdue Pharma.

I'm sorry but I'm out on any more shots. Wife and I have decided to not pursue getting the booster shot. There's been too much walk back by the drug companies, the CDC, and the government. You keep drinking the Koolaid and next thing you know you are a dozen booster shots in and no better off than the person with natural immunity.

 

[AZMark]

You keep drinking the Koolaid and next thing you know you are a dozen booster shots in and no better off than the person with natural immunity.

You’re one of the first I’ve heard go this way after already being vaccinated, that’s interesting.

The statement above obviously includes a big assumption that the roll of the dice with covid goes well for each person and that there aren’t unknown negative long term effects from a virus that we know as little about as we do the vaccine.

 

[Julian]

Lol, you agree with the spin, so therefore the data is 100% accurate. Was there any contract tracing done to determine that these cases resulted from on-duty activity? Man - there is a lack of skepticism and logic in here.

The data is the data. Police departments have chosen to consider Covid deaths and line of duty deaths. You could argue that they should not be - but that doesn't change the decision made to date. This means that the data is what it is - MORE Police have died from Covid than any other source. What is the "Spin"? The news is reporting what Police departments have published. Should they bury this data? No. Now it seems you want to call it "FAKE NEWS" because???? It doesn't support your bias (not quite sure what that is)? Because you think Covid is fake? Because you don't think their deaths should be considered line of duty deaths?

The same applies to my company in the last 12 months. More people have died in my company from Covid than any other source. In my group alone (I have a lot of employees) 3 people have died from Covid and one from Cancer.

It won't surprise me one bit if Covid is the number one cause of death for working age Americans regardless of their job. I think this data made the main stream news simply because in Law Enforcement they track deaths carefully and HAVE the data. My company doesn't. Not sure many do.

 

[crazy4life]

Speaking as a private citizen, we are, fortunately, not in the same drug post-approval regulatory environment we were in in 1999. Here is an article from the New England Journal of Medicine, The FDA Amendments Act of 2007 — Assessing Its Effects a Decade Later, discussing some of the changes.

Here is an excerpt from the article: "Responding to these concerns in the post-Vioxx era, Congress used the 2007 renewal of FDA user-fee legislation to make seminal reforms in the management of data on drug effects. The resulting FDA Amendments Act (FDAAA) instructed the FDA to build a population-based surveillance system to harness the enormous reservoir of data on medication use and clinical events generated automatically during routine electronic recording of filled prescriptions and virtually all other medical encounters. The FDAAA also increased the FDA’s power to require manufacturers to conduct postapproval studies, such as by giving it authority to impose monetary penalties for noncompliance. The Act further required that information on the design of all clinical trials be recorded in a public database, ClinicalTrials.gov, soon after a trial’s inception, and it set in motion rulemaking to require that summary results also be included in the database within 12 months after the trial’s primary completion date. The law also mandated the implementation of risk evaluation and mitigation strategies (REMS) which can require physician certification, mandatory risk communications, or laboratory testing when specific high-risk medications are used. "

Jim

Personally I would not trust the FDA to tell me what flavor of Slurpee to buy at the local 7-Eleven but that’s just me.

please explain why the FDA just approved Adulhem for Alzheimer’s over the overwhelmingobjections of its own experts and advisers.

“
Statisticians at the Food and Drug Administration opposed this month's agency approval of a controversial Alzheimer’s drug, saying there was not enough evidence to prove the treatment works.

The objections by Office of Biostatistics Director Sylva Collins, reviewer Tristan Massie and other agency statisticians are detailed in documents that the FDA released Tuesday. The criticisms align with those from a panel of external FDA advisers who voted last fall that there was not enough evidence to prove the drug from Biogen, known as Aduhelm, is effective.”

All these experts who were just following the science were overruled by the top brass.

This treatment will cost 56,000 (THIS IS NOT A TYPO) per year per patient. There is an estimated 6 million potential patients. Not enough numbers on my calculator to figure out the staggering amount of money to be made.

So follow the science unless Biogen can make billions upon billions of dollars using a drug that nobody but the bosses agree will have any benefit.

“Three FDA advisory committee membersresigned in protest over the drug approval. Other critics have warned that the high cost, coupled with the need for expensive diagnostic procedures and regular screening of patients who take the medication, could overwhelm the health care system. Nearly 6 million Americans have Alzheimer’s disease.”

This is just one example of how things work in the real world. It’s been said since the beginning of time FOLLOW THE MONEY.

FDA approved Alzheimer's drug over internal objections

FDA gave the drug conditional approval earlier this month, making it the first new Alzheimer’s therapy approved in nearly 20 years.

www.politico.com

 

[tabbibus]

Non of that gives me any reassurance that the government is looking out for me. What you really need to look at is that Merck knew prior to the release of the drug that the drug caused blood clots and stroke and lied about to to the FDA prior to the approval and release to the public. The same can be said for the Opioid epidemic we face from Purdue Pharma.

I'm sorry but I'm out on any more shots. Wife and I have decided to not pursue getting the booster shot. There's been too much walk back by the drug companies, the CDC, and the government. You keep drinking the Koolaid and next thing you know you are a dozen booster shots in and no better off than the person with natural immunity.

What's wrong with a dozen booster shots? How many flu shots do I have under my belt now? And will keep getting every year? I have no desire to roll the dice with acquiring the natural immunity. That's a non starter.

 

[BigN8]

You’re one of the first I’ve heard go this way after already being vaccinated, that’s interesting.

The statement above obviously includes a big assumption that the roll of the dice with covid goes well for each person and that there aren’t unknown negative long term effects from a virus that we know as little about as we do the vaccine.

Really??? Then I suggest you step away from this echo chamber and do some of your own digging.

 

[Lurch]

The data is the data. Police departments have chosen to consider Covid deaths and line of duty deaths. You could argue that they should not be - but that doesn't change the decision made to date. This means that the data is what it is - MORE Police have died from Covid than any other source. What is the "Spin"? The news is reporting what Police departments have published. Should they bury this data? No. Now it seems you want to call it "FAKE NEWS" because???? It doesn't support your bias (not quite sure what that is)? Because you think Covid is fake? Because you don't think their deaths should be considered line of duty deaths?

The same applies to my company in the last 12 months. More people have died in my company from Covid than any other source. In my group alone (I have a lot of employees) 3 people have died from Covid and one from Cancer.

It won't surprise me one bit if Covid is the number one cause of death for working age Americans regardless of their job. I think this data made the main stream news simply because in Law Enforcement they track deaths carefully and HAVE the data. My company doesn't. Not sure many do.

I asked the pertinent question right there in my post, but not surprised you missed/ignored it. Regardless of my opinion of Covid and line of duty, it's spin to assume that every officer who died from Covid contracted it on-duty. The "facts", in this case, are not supported by data.

 

[BigN8]

What's wrong with a dozen booster shots? How many flu shots do I have under my belt now? And will keep getting every year? I have no desire to roll the dice with acquiring the natural immunity. That's a non starter.

OMG..... No response.

 

[tabbibus]

OMG..... No response.

No seriously. What's the issue? How many shots did you get as a kid? We do yearly flu shots. Why is this different if it can keep me from dying from a disease. I'd love to hear the argument of why my comment sounds so ridiculous in your view.